Odd (but typical) that Nikon would do this.

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by rick_m., Mar 2, 2015.

  1. Some time ago I bought a 70-200 AFS VR lens from Adorama. It has been a workhorse. Lately the VR has been a little wonky so I thought I might send it in under warranty. So far so good.
    When I bought the lens it came with a one year warranty. The Nikon website said that if I would register the lens I would get an additional 5 year warranty. Here is what the Nikon website says today:
    Nikkor Lenses
    Nikkor lenses come with a standard one year warranty and Nikon Inc. lenses sold by authorized Nikon Inc. dealers will have a Nikon Inc. Five Year Extension*.
    * To register for the five year extension, one copy of the included form must be mailed in as indicated. Keep the Customer copy of the form as well as the original proof of purchase (sales receipt).​
    Now I know what the answer is and because I posted this you will guess what the answer I got from Nikon was, but based upon the above, what would you conclude the warranty on a new Nikon lens is?
     
  2. If Adorama is an authorized Nikon dealer, you should get the 5 year warranty. If you sent them whatever form they want.
    I hope...
     
  3. Six years, but experience tells me it is five years.
     
  4. On the last Nikon lens that I purchased new - 80-400 AF-S a year ago (also from adorama) - it says that the warranty is one year - and you get a 4-year extension when you register the lens. Can't recall that any paperwork was to be mailed in - online registration appeared to be sufficient.

    I pulled the warranty copy: 1 Year Nikon Inc USA limited warranty and 4 year Nikon Inc USA extended service coverage = 5 years. To activate your Extended Service Coverage (ESC), you must register your ESC online with Nikon Inc within 10 days from the date of the original purchase... Failure to register within 10 days invalidates ESC.
    The paperwork I retained is only two page - there's nothing to mail in.
    My 70-200/2.8 VR came only with a one-year warranty - and there was no obligation to register. Warranty card and proof of purchase would need to be mailed together with the lens - at least that's how I understand the paperwork.
    Where did you find the above - all I could find was this:
    • NIKKOR and 1 NIKKOR Lenses

      In addition to the one-year Nikon Digital Imaging Warranty, NIKKOR and 1 NIKKOR lenses purchased new from the Nikon Store also include a free Four Year Extended Service Coverage (for a total of 5 years of coverage). IMPORTANT: To register for Four Year Extended Service Coverage, one copy of the included form must be mailed in as indicated. Keep the Customer copy of the form as well as the original proof of purchase (sales receipt).
    http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Store/Shopping-Help/index.page#warranty which is add odds with what my warranty copy says (online vs mail-in).
     
  5. Here is where I found it. Number one on a google search for "Nikon Warranty".
    https://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16192/~/nikon-warranty-and-product-registration
     
  6. Here is the thing.
    When I called Nikon to see about sending my lens in the young man (who at best could be described as civil but not polite) told me about the four-year extension. When I mentioned that the website disagreed with him replied tersely, "sorry about that".
    It has been my experience that this is the attitude from Nikon Service for at least two years now. They don't even pretend to be concerned about customer service issues. Does this hurt their business? I guess not. I have posted comments critical of Nikon Service here several times. and they have not bothered to respond. (Who knows if they are watching anyway.) I have called corporate and was treated in a completely dismissive way. And now this issue which is at best poor attention to detail on their website.
    Tamron offers a 6 year warranty. Will that affect my buying decisions in the future? It depends on the lens but for a great many people it ought to.
     
  7. Warranty exists mainly to protect the customer against manufacturing defects and other such flaws that are due to problems that are the manufacturer's responsibility. 5 years of warranty is more than typical for many products. Repair costs outside of warranty are just a part of the cost of doing photography.
    I think it is somewhat unfortunate that today so many people expect frequent replacement of products with improved models and this leads to a difficulty in maintaining adequate supply of spare parts for some products. In addition, features such as vibration reduction can malfunction over time and this can lead to serviceability issues over the long term. I think this can become quite a big issue in the future with too many products having too short serviceable lives.
    Still, by paying for service instead of dumping the product when it develops a defect, the customer sends a message to the manufacturer that serviceability is important to them.
     
  8. <<They don't even pretend to be concerned about customer service issues. Does this hurt their business? I guess not. >>
    Well, not so fast. Last year Roger Ciacala, an influential blogger with Lens Rentals, was looking to buy a personal camera. He went through Sony, Pentax, Nikon, Canon. He discounted Sony & Pentax because of limited lens options. He ended up buying a Canon 6D in no small part due to his frustrating experiences dealing with Nikon over repair/warranty issues. Roger does seem to have a wide following and this certainly was a negative for Nikon.
    Kent in SD
     
  9. Has anyone abandoned Nikon USA and gone straight to the headquarters in Japan, or tried Nikon in Europe?
     
  10. My only experience with Nikon repair was as a walk in for my Coolpix 950 about 10 years ago when they had a facility in Woodland Hills, CA, about a 40 minute drive from me at the time. They were very receptive and did the repair quickly and efficiently.
    Recently they moved from their Torrence location to Wilshire Blvd., just a 4 minute ride. I've been thinking about bringing over one of my out of warranty D300s bodies that I dropped a few months ago to give it a once over, but I'm a bit reluctant with the recent posts about Nikon service.
     
  11. Rick, did Nikon accept the lens back on warranty or not?
     
  12. in the 70-200 2.8 vr manual it says that you have to turn off the vr when taking off the lens, also this can be found with any vr lens.
    did you do that?
    vr can get wonky when constatnly mistreating the mechanics.
    just sayin
    so what was the awnser?
     
  13. I think what the manual refers to is that if the camera power is turned off while the VR is active (i.e. elements are moving) it can leave the VR group not locked up, so it may rattle around a bit when the lens is shaken. To avoid this is that you let go off the shutter release and AF ON for a few seconds until the VR stops humming and only after it has stopped, you should turn off the camera power. Whatever position the VR switch is in should not matter, and I recall testing this and the VR switch position didn't affect the outcome at powering off the camera. However, it is possible that how the VR system is locked up depends on the lens, in some lenses it may be floating when the lens is disengaged from the camera.
     
  14. ah yeah, exactly. i should have read the manual again :D
    still,..i could see why obviou mistreating could be an issue.
    thats what i am saying.
    not sure how they'd find out though.
     
  15. I've dealt for years with Nikon's West Coast service center, though not since it moved to Wilshire Blvd.

    I would fly in from Europe, on my way to Northern California or Seattle, LAX area hotels cost about $100 a night, and I needed to get my camera/lens or whatever fixed immediately, or I would run up an unconscionable hotel bill before I took off again for the return trip abroad.
    It wasn't long before Nikon service not only understood my need, recognized I was a dedicated Nikon user, but became friendly with me. I always came to the counter, and always stepped aside while some customer or another brought in their lens or camera for repair or came to pick one up. In short, I then had time to talk to them without (I hope) making a terrible nuisance of myself.
    I was rewarded with simply outstanding service.
    Twice I came in with cameras (a D90 and a D300) that had intermittent issues with functioning. One was fixed after Vic, chief technician, was urged when I was told it was functioning fine and I said 'now, but not last week', so he took it and found small cracks in the electrical connection to one battery terminal connector inside and replaced it. It never malfunctioned again. He needed some prodding, but it's the same the world over with 'intermittent' problems.
    I had a similar problem that just could not be found on inspection, it was intermittent, and shut down my D90 several times. There were sometimes months between malfunctions, but the camera would go dead with a good battery, and not just one but several were tried.
    Eventually, one of the 'bosses', a female, took my D90 out for a weekend of shooting and the camera seized up on her. It was a similar problem but not visually or electrically viewable or even reproducible. One had to actually go out shooting with the camera to experience its intermittent malfunction before it could be diagnosable, then fixable which was done forthwith.
    I am a very satisfied customer of Nikon's West Coast Service Center.
    Since I have almost always gone to the counter and seen them work, I suggest that some people may think those at the counter are clerks: nothing could be further from the truth. They are highly skilled persons (at least last time I was there). They could look at just about any camera and get an idea what was wrong with it, whether it had been mishandled or not, and usually diagnose it, then take it in. I am pretty sure some or all of the counter people (they were women I dealt with, but that may have changed) also worked on cameras, and certainly hung around with the (other) techs. They were not 'girls' or 'clerks' but highly trained and very smart individuals who really knew lots about just about any Nikon product -- very valuable people.
    They were college trained, smart, and with the customers very lenient with the warranty.
    It also helps that California (among the various states) has a very liberal warranty law, so some of the rigamarole that Nikon might put people through in some states seems might not be required in California from California customers or those who bring their equipment into the California facility -- in my past experience (which ended before Nikon West Coast moved to Wilshire Blvd.).
    I watched many, many customers being handled and also watched work that a lesser company might have said 'out of warranty' by a few days or a few weeks, get warranty repair with no argument at all -- not even for asking -- I think it was Nikon's policy to extend warranties a little to avoid 'issues' and arguments.
    Also, I think under California law (I haven't reviewed it lately), it may not even be necessary to 'fill out those forms', but don't, don't, don't depend on my long ago review of that law.
    I do note that the so-called 'service contract' for 'four years' is basically an invention. It is simply a 'warranty' under another name, in my estimation. I believe it is named that way for accounting and bookkeeping purposes so that Nikon does not have to set aside assets on their books to offset future 'warranty' repairs by calling this (what I call 'extended warranty') a 'service contract' or similar, when in fact it's really no different at all other than different words used to describe it and a so-called 'qualifying step' -- filling out the card - which may not even be necessary in CA for CA customers under liberal CA warranty law . . . . but then it's been a while, and there may have been intervening cases, or I may need to read that law again.
    In any case, I didn't see quarrels at the Nikon West Coast repair facility counter over the 'service contract' extension if one could prove purchase . . . even if Nikon had a 'legal right' to demand that. That was my experience in personally having spent numerous hours there, waiting for things to be fixed or waiting for them to clear an hour's load of customers before I let them get to me.
    I learned a lot from watching, and I learned respect for these people.
    And I also got great service.
    (I would never depend on their 'telephone service' which last time I called them was 'offshore'.)
    As to buying Nikon products 'offshore', good luck.
    Your Nikon USA warranty is good worldwide, but the reverse is not true.
    Nikon USA will NOT work on any Nikon product not officially imported by them. All Nikon products are marked OR their serial numbers are encoded so Nikon's USA repair facility knows if your Nikon product came through Nikon USA or not. Your Nikon product purchased offshore with a 'worldwide warranty' does not include Nikon USA (formerly Ehrenreich Photo-optical, Inc.).
    It's been that way since I bought my first Nikon in 1967.
    I had one experience with a Nikon facility 'offshore', an official facility, and it was 'horrible'.
    It made me understand and value even more Nikon USA's West Coast repair facility. (I know nothing of their East Coast repair facility.)
    You can get somewhat better prices if you buy through Hong Kong sometimes, but what if the product has a fault? Nikon USA won't work on it, so there's Mack and who else in the US, or send it abroad . . . . have you checked the air express prices one way lately -- from Europe for a simple one page letter it can run well over $100 on two of the three air delivery services 'next day' and that's about all those two offer. Another will do it for about $55, for one page or so and only offers 'next day' delivery too.
    I haven't tried sending a camera or lens from, say, Minnesota to Japan or Hong Kong, but I'd hate to foot the bill for air freight, or wait weeks while it floats over on a boat with container loads of other packages . . . . and what if the problem is intermittent, and doesn't show up when they see it . . . . then the problem recurs when they send it back?
    I'm a little easier on my equipment now . . . so there are fewer repairs.
    I'm hoping Nikon West Coast on Wilshire has the same people they had in El Segundo; they saved my bacon many times.
    And did so gracefully.
    john
    John (Crosley)
     
  16. Nikon USA will NOT work on any Nikon product not officially imported by them.
    This is not correct. If the buyer presents the original purchase receipt and international warranty documents and if the product was not purchased gray in the country where it was originally sold in, Nikon USA will honor the (one year) worldwide warranty for lenses and will also service the product out of warranty but the original paperwork is needed to prove it's not a gray market purchase. When I asked about this from Nikon USA (as I was moving to live in the USA I needed to know if my lenses could be serviced by Nikon USA) they gave me this information.
    Your Nikon product purchased offshore with a 'worldwide warranty' does not include Nikon USA (formerly Ehrenreich Photo-optical, Inc.).
    The worldwide warranty for Nikon lenses includes Nikon USA. For camera bodies and scanners the warranty is regional, however.
     
  17. what about the nps repair sevice.
    should work, right?
    do i have to read yet another manual..
     
  18. still,..i could see why obviou mistreating could be an issue.
    thats what i am saying.
    not sure how they'd find out though.​
    I am a photojournalist. This is a "professional" lens. It is not meant to be abused but it is meant to be used hard. I am not sure what you are saying but I do not abuse my equipment. Right?
    John.
    I completely agree with you about El Segundo. In the past whenever I sent items to them for repair they were outstanding. I could speak to these very knowledgeable technicians on the phone. They rushed a repair for me on at least one occasion because I had an important gig coming up. I believe I spoke to Melina in those days IIR. (There was another woman there who was very helpful too but I can't recall her name. I wrote a thank you letter to Nikon after she helped me. My experience has changed completely. They have changed their numbers and one can only call into their call center. In a previous thread I detailed their response to a repair issue and it was appalling. I sent them an email asking for advice on a repair and got a simple 'send it in or contact the call center' reply. Your mileage may vary but I can tell you that calling the call center these days gets one a person who is NOT a technician, not knowledgeable and in my experience not very dedicated or even friendly.
    Contrast this with Canon. At an event just over a week ago, their regional rep greeted me like a long lost friend, offered to show me their whole stable of workhorses, assured me that CPS would give me fast turnaround 48 - 72 hours, free CLA, equipment loans and a direct phone number. All I need do is swap this whole mess of Nikon equipment that I have for Canon;) Tempting I have to say. When I asked Nikon who the local rep was I was told directly that I could not be given that information.
    I hope you continue to have the experience you had in the past. Clearly the vast majority of us do not fly to LA to have their cameras repaired. It is only my opinion, and others may have completely different experiences, but there seems to have been a significant change in Nikon's treatment of its repair services. I fear the old days of personal, knowledgeable and friendly services are over.
     
  19. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Contrast this with Canon. At an event just over a week ago, their regional rep greeted me like a long lost friend, offered to show me their whole stable of workhorses, assured me that CPS would give me fast turnaround 48 - 72 hours, free CLA, equipment loans and a direct phone number. All I need do is swap this whole mess of Nikon equipment that I have for Canon;) Tempting I have to say.​
    Rick, the only thing that really puzzles me is why you have not switched to Canon a long time ago. To be blunt, you only have yourself to blame to suffer all these problems with Nikon.
     
  20. no abuse then..well good for you
    my canon 1d mk3 stopped working,...some error. canon was quite unfriendly that day.
    my nikon d3 stopped working, they repaired it real fast and lent me a camera.
    then they repaired my 16-35, i got it back and it was not really repaired, as i noticed
    four months later when the screws inside got lose again.
    i recieved the same awnser like you when the aperture mechanism broke and i had not figured that out yet.
    fixing that went fast and was good.
    results vary.
    canon let me down when it came to waranty.
    nikon did not.
    i got the opposite experience, europe though.
    i will make sure that it says that in my biography as intro.
    despite all the rumors he believed that nikon did not let him down when it came to repairs.
    sounds great to me :)
     
  21. Apart from being seriously fraudulent, it seems if your kit is misbehaving and Nikon, Canon or whoever are being stubbornly unhelpful, drop it in the sea.
    I mean, your expensive kit is covered for 'Accidental Damage', right? It's unlikely you'll have to do it very often as kit is pretty reliable these days.
    Seems ideally suited to those tricky 'intermittent' problems too.
    _________
    NB. I am not recommending this as an SOP.
     
  22. Rick, the only thing that really puzzles me is why you have not switched to Canon a long time ago. To be blunt, you only have yourself to blame to suffer all these problems with Nikon.​
    What nonsense. It is the customer's fault when Nikon can't offer decent customer service? Did you not read my previous posts complimenting Nikon when they did a good job? Did you not read my post (above) where I mentioned what good experiences I had with Nikon before they changed their system? You, of all people, ought to take these problems seriously. That is unless you just want this forum to pant after each new product and rave about how good Nikon service is. Is that what you want?
    Henry.
    I am glad you posted here. Look at the link I posted, call your secret Nikon rep (who the rest of us are not allowed to call) and tell him to fix the warranty section of the Nikon website. If Nikon won't listen to B & H they won't listen to anyone.
    I am not trashing Nikon. Indeed I have been using Nikon cameras for over 40 years. I published pictures taken with Nikon cameras in three different publications this weekend. I want them to be the company they once were. It appears that some people would rather trash me than even consider that their dear Nikon might make a mistake. Consider how easily a trained Nikon employee might have handled this.
    Me: Your website says 6 years.
    REP: I am terribly sorry. That is an obvious mistake on our part. Thank you for bringing that to our attention. I will tell the appropriate people so they can fix it. Please consult your warranty card for the correct information. I am sorry for the confusion. Is there anything else I can help you with today? Thanks for being a loyal Nikon customer.​
    No attitude. No condescending tone of voice. No dismissive attitude. A simple apology and polite statement of the terms. But the employee was untrained and his attitude didn't just happen. It was allowed to happen. Nikon can fix this issue as easy as pie. They can train their call center people to simply be better with the customers. But I guess that is my fault. Insert eyeroll here.
     
  23. forgive and forget.
    error is human.
     
  24. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    What nonsense. It is the customer's fault when Nikon can't offer decent customer service?​
    Why nonsense? If a customer (i.e. you, Rick) thinks he/she is not getting decent customer service and is taking every opportunity to complain about it, as Rick you have done over and over, and you have clearly indicated in the subject of this thread that as far as you are concerned, it is "typical" behavior from Nikon, it is no one else's fault that you are still sticking with Nikon. In particular, you think Canon is doing so great.
    Who else is more responsible for your own well being? You owe to yourself to switch brands.
     
  25. Thankfully, I never had to take advantage of any of my Nikon warranties, nor Canon's. I use both systems regularly in addition to my medium and large format cameras.
    Canon was named originally after the Buddhist Goddess of Mercy. Wouldn't hurt to spread some of that around nowadays, would it?
     
  26. Rick
    Are you a member of NPS? I am and I have not had the problems you are talking about. Every DSLR I have owned except for the D4 has gone back to Nikon at least once. But then I use my gear hard. Normal turn around time in my experience is a week. Being an NPS member I can request to have my gear back by a particular date.
    Did the Canon rep bother to tell you that CPS is a paid service? My friends who are CPS members tell me that the turn around time is never any shorter then 4 business days.
     
  27. Oh wait I remember asking you before if you where a member of NPS and you never bothered to answer. So I would guess that is a no. How is it that as a working PJ you have not taken advantage of NPS?
     
  28. NPS. Interesting you should mention that. I am not qualified for NPS. Why? Because I own an advertising business in additional to my photography business. When requesting membership Nikon told me that to be qualified I must be acting as a professional photographer full time and not participate in any other businesses. It does not matter that my photos are continuously published and have been for a very long time now.
    When I was staff on a newspaper there was no reason to belong as my equipment was maintained by the paper through a maintenance contract with a repair facility. I was very pleased not to long ago with Nikon's service on my own equipment and have said so.
    It is interesting to me that so many people here are so protective of their company of choice that they are willing to try any number of ways to blame me for my experiences. The fault, it appears, lies with trying to post them on the Nikon forum. Clearly the moderator thinks it is my fault that Nikon made a serious mistake. (Which I linked to for all to see by the way.) His solution, rather than to ask Nikon for good service, is to bail on tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment and years of familiarity with that equipment and go to Canon. This is a poor recommendation and very rude.
    So the message is, 'don't come here complaining about Nikon. This forum is for fan-boys'.
    I will leave it at that. It is time to not renew my subscription anyway. Yet another poster run off by the moderators.
     
  29. Me: Your website says 6 years.
    REP: I am terribly sorry. That is an obvious mistake on our part. Thank you for bringing that to our attention. I will tell the appropriate people so they can fix it. Please consult your warranty card for the correct information. I am sorry for the confusion. Is there anything else I can help you with today? Thanks for being a loyal Nikon customer.​
    Rick, I agree - the wording in your link is confusing. If I see one year warranty and 5 year extension, I would think they refer to a 6 year warranty. However, you seem to be so certain in your interpretation. Does Nikon ever actually explicitly state "6 years?"
     
  30. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    It is interesting to me that so many people here are so protective of their company of choice that they are willing to try any number of ways to blame me for my experiences. The fault, it appears, lies with trying to post them on the Nikon forum. Clearly the moderator thinks it is my fault that Nikon made a serious mistake. (Which I linked to for all to see by the way.) His solution, rather than to ask Nikon for good service, is to bail on tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment and years of familiarity with that equipment and go to Canon. This is a poor recommendation and very rude.​
    Rick, I'll remind you once again this was what you wrote earlier, on this very thread:
    All I need do is swap this whole mess of Nikon equipment that I have for Canon;) Tempting I have to say.​
    Yes, I agree that Nikon USA's web site is unclear about the 1+4 years of warranty on lenses, and I am going to write to my contacts over there and ask them to clarify that and perhaps improve it. That is all I can do; whether they act on it or not is something beyond my control. And I have no problem linking all the discussion on this thread for them to review.
    I too am merely a Nikon customer, also for close to 40 years. However, I don't work for Nikon and don't receive a penny from them. Therefore, I have no problem suggesting people to move over to Canon or stay with Canon and not move to Nikon if I think that is to their benefit. For example, Michael Dougherty has wanted some "D400" multiple times, and I have been telling him in many occasions that if the 7D Mark II meets his needs, go ahead and get one. Waiting for this "D400" is merely a waste of time and will only lead to disappointments because I firmly believe that is not going to happen.
    Rick, as I said a few times already, you owe it to yourself to try Canon, especially since you think so highly of them. If it works out great and you enjoy their equipment and service, wonderful. If not, maybe you'll get a better perspective that perhaps Nikon is not as bad as you think (and many naysayers have been saying), or Nikon would have gone out of business a long time ago. In fact, I would have switched already. If nobody has told you before, I think it is fair to say that Rick you are a very demanding customer who is hard to please. Whether you yourself is partly responsible for so much unhappiness and complaint is up to you to judge.
    And just because you may switch to another brand some day, nothing prevents you from continue to post to this Nikon Forum and complain about Nikon. For example, Peter Hamm, whom I nominated to be a photo.net hero a few years ago, has switched to Olympus 4/3, but Peter still posts here regularly. Many who no longer use Nikon equipment still post here; some have never used Nikon equipment. Being a current Nikon user is by no means a requirement for participation.
     
  31. I bought my 20mm f/2.8 AF-D which is a store demo but I got the full warranty 1+4 year. I sent it in for repair in year 4 and had no problem with Nikon. They fixed it no question asked.
     
  32. From what I wrote above about Nikon USA's West Coast repair, one might assume I'm a big fan.
    I am.
    But I'm an extremely difficult customer to please.
    When treated badly or with disdain, I know how to complain loudly and long. I know how to tell other people of bad experiences, and I sometimes do in a way that costs that company money.
    But incumbent with telling others of bad, rude, or incompetent service or encounters with those who represent companies, such as Nikon (or perhaps a cable company), in my view comes a personal view that it is important to tell people who give outstanding service that they are giving good service, and acknowledge it.
    It's sort of karmic in a way, as little as I believe in that. It's just fair play.
    People who only complain are 'cranks', but those who just spent a half hour waiting to praise a phone worker to his boss and then makes another call and gets treated like dirt, has something to say to the worker who treats him like dirt -- or to that person's boss. It's 'I'm not a crank, and here's proof', telling the story of why not.
    You can't criticize all bad things people do and never reward those who do an excellent job as though it's just the way things are normally --- there's too much lousy service out there not to give encouragement when someone gives you good service.
    Nikon USA, West Coast Repair has consistently given me good service, otherwise, you'd be reading something different entirely.
    When I get outstanding service, I will often tell the person to mark the time on their tape (most such calls to customer service centers are tape recorded 'for training purposes') so when they ask for a raise, or are criticized, they can point to one very demanding customer they treated well and with respect. 'Just mark the time, date and write it down, and maybe pass it to your boss. 'I'm very demanding and don't suffer fools lightly, but you gave me outstanding service, and deserve to be told that and have your boss know," I might say.
    I've been known to wait 20 minutes just to talk to a boss about some excellent employee's good work, even if it didn't result in some special favor to me, but was in some way superior.
    I feel I earn the right to complain and complain and be listened to when I do, and not be labeled a 'crank'.
    When I am treated with disdain, miserably, or my needs are wantonly ignored or disregarded BY SOMEONE WHO OBVIOUSLY SHOULD KNOW BETTER, NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST STUPID, I can bellow with the loudest, and be the first to call for a supervisor, and instead of complaining loudly and long to the supervisor I just explain quietly to the supervisor as a fellow human being (if given the chance) that I know what kind of a position a supervisor is in, and that the person I dealt with may (in that instance) be a 'problem' and suggest they 'listen to the tape' to verify my description of my problem before taking action. I often tell them if they apologize quickly, 'Don't trust my version, listen to the conversation yourself, and then make up your mind,' knowing of course that the employee has cooked his/her own goose in treating me badly.
    I know for a fact at least one employees of Social Security have been fired after giving me a hard time, and at least one or two have been 'retrained', though such information is supposed to be 'secret'. 'Word' got to me anyway, though I've forgotten how.
    Bosses (most of them), want to give good service, but some don't give a damn, and if an appeal to them doesn't work, then you have a choice whether to deal with that entity - if indeed there is any choice.
    With the US government there often is no choice, but Congressmen are there for making your complaints and giving them weight. In one instance, powerless after a turndown and a bad decision, I made an inquiry/complaint on behalf of an immigrant friend through a Congressman and the INS regional director, and later when that person and I arrived at the local INS field office for a 'hearing' it took place in three minutes.
    We were told the 'pink folder' around that person's file meant 'Congressional interest' and that basically guaranteed a favorable outcome and that we were treated with greatest deference and politesse. Nobody else in that office got so much as the time of day, but we got treated like royalty and were done with our business, in and out, in less then 15 minutes, though my friend did have to wait with others the morning in the waiting room to be called.
    I learned from that experience that even the US government can be 'got to' in certain instances when one has a complaint or needs assistance and when the people in charge of giving satisfaction are giving you the middle finger.
    Not everyone wants to help, but a certain number of those charged with aiding you rankle when you or anyone seeking their help starts off with an obvious 'attitude', so even when 'escalating' a problem from a bad or obstinate worker to a supervisor, I always try to establish some accord or rapport with the supervisor before describing the problem, and appeal politely to the supervisor's reason.
    People react instinctively to attacks they feel in others' voices and manners even if not directed at them, and the same is true if the 'attack' they feel is directed at their employer if they are loyal employees.
    It's just human nature.
    If you treat most people well, you often get good treatment in return.
    Some companies thrive in giving bad treatment in order to satisfy 'goals' such as for 'keeping call times' short,' or 'not giving refunds, no matter what the advertised policy' and so on, and I have little patience for such things.
    When I recognize someone trying to 'dump' a call or duck an issue without trying to resolve it, I emphatically refuse to let them. It helps I practiced law for nearly two decades over a quarter century ago.
    In dealing with Nikon's West Coast Repair facility (before their recent move), I had one or more run-ins, with them, but we reached accord. We shook hands as they recognized I was a good customer, and they were in the business to please their customers.
    In turn, I tried my very best to behave well; I was a frequent visitor at one time, and it would have been counterintuitive to be otherwise. I always moved aside for the busier customers, so I would have time to speak throoughly to them about my equipment's problems when it was complex, for instance, and thus never kept any line waiting. In return I got superior service, always.
    Nikon West Coast repair tried hard to earn my trust by doing their job well.
    They did that, and in doing so, they earned my respect; my participation in this thread is 'payback' they know nothing of but they earned it.
    I can still yell at the cable company or the mindless computer techs in India, Philippines or elsewhere who start every conversation with a 'script' that assumes I'm an 'idiot' and maybe starts with the words 'Is Your computer plugged in? even though I just told them I was reading messages on the screen.
    Yes, my blood boils, and I ask for a supervisor.
    I learned one thing in a long life.
    People often like to please other people; if they like you, they'll often go out of their way to help you, even if it means they take a chance. It's not always so, but as a rule of thumb in the USA particularly, it's a good practice. It may not work in certain other countries I won't name, but in the USA, it's yielded me excellent results over a lifetime. Attacking others armed with an attitude generally, though has resulted in poor results.
    [I once was kind to an airline 'sales' executive (now retired or dead), and without even knowing the guy or even what state his office was in, for a decade and a half, he got into my flight records and upgraded me to business or first class for each flight I took, though I was traveling on absolutely the cheapest fare.
    We never had more than two or three conversations, but he took care of upgrading me until he left the company when he retired and the mechanics of doing it were automatically handled through his secretary
    This was all because of some nice words I once said in a conversation with him long ago, in reward for my 'pleasant manner'. So, on the absolute cheapest fare, I found you can drink a bottle of (complimentary) Dom Perignon slowly and get sober on the way to the equator, and do it again the rest of the way on the long journey before landing in Sydney all while luxuriating in a First Class seat that sold for $8,000 I bought for $600. (I don't drink at all generally, but I do like Dom Perignon).
    Sometimes it's not 'bad service', it's the customer.
    Good customers have a way of finding that even 'problem companies' can give good treatment sometimes, and good companies can give outstanding treatment at times from time to time.
    john
    John (Crosley)
     
  33. i wish i had some real problems..
    well i do..i lost a camera, a lens and a tripod last weekend.
    i will put all the pieces in a box, send it to nikon and ask them to replace my d3 with a d4s.
    if they don't i'll go on a nerdrage campain on some internet forum.
    other than that, do you also scream at people behind the counter if your hotdog isn't how you expected it to be?
    for using nikon that long, you must be old.
    how come you have such a temper, rick.
    chill, dude
     
  34. i lost a camera, a lens and a tripod last weekend.​
    Well at least you found them again....:)
     
  35. :)
    good one. i laughed.
    don't know why though,..well..i didnt go down that cliff too, so i call it a win.
     
  36. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    for using nikon that long, you must be old.​
    So Norbert, I am "old" also? Do you know I started using Nikon when I was 3 years old? :)
    When I was younger, I was very much a perfectionist, and to some degree I still am. But gradually, I do notice that it is very time consuming to find and fix every little typo, get everything absolutely right .... Perhaps I am much better off using my time differently.
    However, in this case, I agree it is not a small typo. Any confusion about the exact length of the warranty should be corrected. As promised, below is part of my e-mail to Nikon, referencing this thread. In other words, Nikon may read what everybody posts to this thread, including mine.
    Since I am very familiar with the 1+4 warranty and am pre-conditioned to it, it took me a while to figure out the complaint.
    According to this web page: https://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16192/~/nikon-warranty-and-product-registration, for Nikkor lenses, the standard warranty is one year, and there is a 5-year extension, which would have made it 1+5 = 6 years total.
    Perhaps that page can be improved to eliminate any ambiguity.​
    And attached is a screen capture of the current page for the record.
    00dA6r-555365784.jpg
     
  37. I have had great luck with my lenses and cameras. Always honored the 5 year warrenty and in fact fixed a D7000 out of warrenty once..the live view button was broken and had been fixed once so they reparied it again for me out of warrenty. Love Nikon.
     
  38. RickM - I am not a moderator, I do not personally know Shun and I am not a Nikon fan boy. I have been a Nikon shooter for 45 years and I am an NPS member. My exepriences with Nikon service has nothing to do with this thread. I am not here to defend or criticize.
    I have to tell you that your continuous rant about Nikon is growing real old. Whether Nikon service is good or bad is totally irrelevant to this conversation. It is one thing to write a post explaining your Nikon serviceexperiences (good or bad) so that others may be made aware of what happens in the real world. This is what the forum is for. It is quite another to go on a crusade to insist that "Nikon Is Bad" and to stamp your feet and denigrate anyone who dares to disagree with your conclusion.
    You come across as fanatical with your expressions of deep seeded hatred for Nikon and apparently you will not be satisfied until everyone else in the forum affirms that you are right. Suggesting that you should perhaps switch to Canon is not tolerated by you. Shun may be constrained by position as moderator and therefore "pulling his punches" in his replies, but I am not burdened with that handicap.
    I can tell you that this continuous rant is becoming completely obnoxious and serves little purpose on this forum. I repeat that has nothing to do with a review of Nikon service. Some have had terrible experiences, others have had satisfactory ones. You threaten that you will not be renewing your Photo.net subscription as a result of the perceived insult. I doubt anyone will care if you take your soapbox to another locale.
    Give it a rest.
     
  39. Wow John, I would hate to be in line behind you at the DMV. Jeez.
     
  40. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Folks, please give this topic a rest. I'll try to follow up with Nikon. Will keep everybody posted.
     
  41. Eric. Frankly your personal attack is just childish. I posted what happened. Nothing more. I affirmed how much I appreciate Nikon time and again. But I dared criticize something that they did. That annoys you. Too bad.
    It would appear that Shun also agrees that Nikon should fix this problem. He and I seem to be the only ones here who care enough about Nikon to try and make it better.
    Just exactly who on this forum have I "denigrated"? At worst I suggested that Nikon work to improve their customer service. No doubt Shun has access to people we mere mortals do not have access too. He thought enough of this error to write to them. But for calling attention to it and the off-handed way the call center handled it I am all of a sudden being unfair to Nikon.
    Thank you Shun for bringing this to Nikon's attention. You did them a favor whether they believe it or not.
    But you all get your wish. I will drop this. There is no place here for criticism of any of the manufacturers. I see that. I like to participate in discussions that are candid and sometime controversial. This is no place for that.
     
  42. lol ..
     
  43. Rick, I agree the Nikon Support page does say a 5-year extension, which with the original 1-year guarantee makes 6 years.
    If you think you are correct and wish to pursue the matter:
    1) Take a screen shot of the page for documentation.
    2) File a false and misleading advertising (Computer Scam) complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC).
    3) File a complaint with your state Attorney General.
    4) File a complaint with the New York State Attorney General (Nikon USA headquarters is in New York state).
    5) File complaints with the Better Business Bureau both in your state and New York state.
     
  44. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Brooks, I am afraid that if you ask a few lawyers, maybe someone could interpret that it means with the extension, the total warranty is five years. To most of us, the wording on that web page seems to suggest that the extension itself is five years and that should be in addition to the original one year for a total of six.
    I am sure that we can make another 100 posts arguing about the two different interpretations and perhaps some other interpretations. Since I am very familiar with Nikon's 1+4 program, I know that they are offering a total of 5 years of warranties. I would say that web page is wrong, or at least it is very misleading. That is something Nikon should correct.
    Who knows exactly how many web pages there are on Nikon USA's web site, at least hundreds and maybe a few thousand. I think most reasonable people understand that there can be some errors here and there. If you include other Nikon web sites outside of the US, I would imagine that there are lots of errors. In fact, on a daily basis I find errors on quite a few web sites. Just a few days ago, I was extremely frustrated by San Francisco Symphony's web site as a link they suggested was nowhere to be found, and I wasted hours in order to pay them money. Initially I thought it might be a browser issue so that I tried different browsers: Chrome, Firefox ... and I even called them once. If you want to pick on photo.net, sadly, there is plenty of out of date information and we certainly have our share of errors. Our world is simply not all that perfect. I have learned that if I try to make everything perfect, I won't have much time left, if any, to do anything useful.
    Incidentally, I have not received any replay from Nikon. Last week was WPPI and my contacts were probably busy. And that web site in question has not been updated.
     
  45. Shun, I agree as you write, most of us would interpret the Web Site offer to mean a total warranty of 6 years. I simply suggested that if Rick feels wronged, he take the steps I outlined in my post to induce Nikon to remediate the wrong.
    In the end, it is not how you, I or the other photo.net readers interpret the warranty extension offer, it is how a Judge (either an Administrative Judge or a Judicial Judge) would interpret it. Filing the complaints is the first step in getting a resolution.
     
  46. It would appear that my point about Nikon being somewhat unapproachable is holding true.
    For Brooks.
    I assumed that because my lens had a 6 year warranty there was no hurry to send it in for service before that warranty was up. I am not going to make a huge point of that but when the google search turns up the page I posted it does make their seeming apathy(?) unsettling.
    It would appear they have ignored Shun and possibly B & H as well.
     
  47. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    I'll make a second attempt to alert them about this confusion on Nikon's web site. But I am not going to keep bringing it up or they may think I am insane. :)
     
  48. I'll make a second attempt to alert them about this confusion on Nikon's web site. But I am not going to keep bringing it up or they may think I am insane. :)
    I agree. It was nice of you to bring it to their attention. It is up to them what they do with it.
    You are in good company. Quite a few people here think I am insane too ;)
     
  49. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    The second time around I used a different approach. Yesterday I contacted Nikon Customer Support directly, and a supervisor named Chuck responded within a day.
    It looks like they have clarified their wording immediately, and that page now has an update time stamp from today, March 12, 2015. Besides specifying that the extension is 4 years for a total of 1+4 =5, they also make it clear that you can now register your new product on line, rather than mailing it before: https://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16192/~/nikon-warranty-and-product-registration
    Nikkor Lenses
    Nikkor lenses come with a standard one year USA limited warranty + a 4 yr. USA Extended Service Coverage for a total of 5 yrs of protection.
    * To register your lens for the 4yr extended service coverage, please visit www.nikonusa.com/register. Keep the Customer copy of the form as well as the original proof of purchase (sales receipt).​
    Recall that this is a screen capture of the previous wording on that page: http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00d/00dA6r-555365784.jpg
    I am glad that at least something good comes out of this thread.
    P.S. Brooks, I am afraid that you need to forget about that law suit. :)
     
  50. Good going, Shun. But it should not have taken someone (you) with inside connections to get this response. It should have been handled this way when Rick reported it. And on a one time basis, they should have given Rick the sixth year; that would have showed some class.
    P.S. Brooks, I am afraid that you need to forget about that law suit. :)
    Oh, drat, some poor "deserving" lawyer will not get his/her new yacht. <BIG GRIN>
     
  51. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    As far as I can tell, Rick's lens is not older than 5 years but newer than 6 years so that it would have caused a dispute. Any Nikon USA lens sold in the last whatever number of years (at least 16 since the 80-200mm/f2.8 AF-S I bought new back in 1999 had the 1+4 extended warranty) have the additional 4 years of extended warranty, and that is clearly marked on the box and on the warranty card/slip.
    Rick was simply unhappy about an error (or typo or ambiguity) on one particular Nikon USA web page. Any one of us could have contacted Nikon's customer service, and they acted pretty quickly, within 24 hours. I think everybody agrees that the original wording was wrong or at least ambiguous. Clearly that supervisor Chuck who responded to me agrees.
    Oh well, another class-action lawsuit against Nikon goes down the drain.
     
  52. Just so you know. I registered the lens online. I did not pay much attention to the paperwork. I read that and assumed it was correct so I delayed sending the lens in. I DID call Nikon customer service and they DID NOT fix the error even after I told the representative about the error.
    I do not believe for a moment that they would be responsive unless pushed. And that is the whole point. Isn't it.
     
  53. Clearly that supervisor Chuck who responded to me agrees.​
    Good work Shun, to get Nikon's website updated. Too bad they did not respond to Rick, but it is at least good the language is made clearer. I see the correction as evidence Nikon just made a mistake (versus some kind of intentional wrong-doing). I think the lesson here is to be careful when it comes to warranty terms (or rebates, etc.). I have been burned a few times after making reasonable assumptions - it sucks, but I have found most companies are pretty inflexible when it comes to the fine print. Even given the website error, I doubt Nikon would be willing to provide warranty service for lenses in the 5-6 year range.
     
  54. I see the correction as evidence Nikon just made a mistake
    Even given the website error, I doubt Nikon would be willing to provide warranty service for lenses in the 5-6 year range.​
    ...and there lies the crux of this issue. The second statement makes the first an untruth to an honourable company.
     
  55. calling customers service really has nothing to do with inside connections.
    just pick up the phone and do it.
    i am not affected by this misleading warranty information (i honestly always thought it was 1 year...whatever) but a big THANK YOU is in order.
    shun, that was handled very cool of you, thumbs up.
    as everything went the way it was supposed to, even rick must be happy now.
    so am i.
    good job, shun.
     
  56. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Thanks Norbert for your kind words.
    I have been a moderator on photo.net since like 1998, 1999 or so. Therefore, it has been over a decade and half. What I learn over the years is that it is human nature to complain. However, I myself much prefer to get things done and to make this world a tiny bit better. Clearly my capability is limited, but I'll be glad to make whatever minute improvement I can.
    Photo.net has ties with Nikon USA's public relations company, the MWW Group. MWW handles the product launches, test sample loans, etc. They prefer me to report issues to them, but they are not part of Nikon. I used to be in touch also with David Dentry, who was a manager in Nikon USA customer relations. David would have corrected this type of issues quickly as he did before. However, he left Nikon last year and became VP at another company so that I no longer have a contact there. Eventually I ended up sending an e-mail to Nikon Customer Service as any one of us could have done, and I am glad that Chuck from Nikon responded within 24 hours.
     
  57. I am glad this is resolved. I will bow out of this one but not without saying this:
    Remember from the start that I informed Nikon Customer Service of the mistake and they simply blew me off. Their answer, "sorry about that". I pressed the issue with the rep and said he should report it and, IIR, he did not say he would.
    On my last run-in with Nikon I did all and more than you did on this. I spoke to two supervisors and called the Nikon USA headquarters myself encountering apathetic people all of the way. I got nowhere.
    It is nice that you all want to let Nikon off of the hook but because I trusted their website I am still out who knows how much because I delayed sending this lens in for service. How many more people out there think they have a 6 year warranty because they read what we all read?
    You said this Shun:
    Rick was simply unhappy about an error (or typo or ambiguity) on one particular Nikon USA web page. Any one of us could have contacted Nikon's customer service, and they acted pretty quickly, within 24 hours. I think everybody agrees that the original wording was wrong or at least ambiguous. Clearly that supervisor Chuck who responded to me agrees.​
    So even you were quick to blow me off as just unhappy about a typo. That is not true and how you could have divined that from my posts, I don't know. Nikon did NOT "act quickly within 24 hours" . You forget that I notified them and they did not ACT at all. But that is my fault because I did not spend the time to get a supervisor on the phone.
    Now lets set the record straight shall we. You told us you sent an email on the 4th and copied us here with what you wrote.
    Then on the 8th you posted:
    Incidentally, I have not received any replay from Nikon. Last week was WPPI and my contacts were probably busy. And that web site in question has not been updated.​
    On the 11th YOU wrote:
    I'll make a second attempt to alert them about this confusion on Nikon's web site. But I am not going to keep bringing it up or they may think I am insane. :)
    On the 12th you told us that you made a THIRD attempt, this time by phone and you got some supervisor to act. So it WAS NOT 24 hours it was 8 days and three contacts. If you had relied on your initial email and my phone call you and I both know this would still not be fixed.
    So then you congratulate Nikon for getting a serious customer service problem, and likely case of deceptive advertising corrected in over 10 days after two people make a total of at least two phone calls and sent at least two emails. And one of these people surely must be considered a Nikon insider. You may want to reconsider your 24 hour time frame.
    I took a lot of abuse in this thread. It will be my last for a long time if not forever. If this is not a forum in which we can talk about the bad as well as panting after the latest fancy lens cap then it does a disservice to all who read it expecting, at the very least, candor.
     
  58. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    On the 12th you told us that you made a THIRD attempt, this time by phone and you got some supervisor to act. So it WAS NOT 24 hours it was 8 days and three contacts.​
    Rick, I would appreciate that you don't make things up out of thin air. Totally I contacted Nikon twice on this matter and never made any phone calls. I wonder where you got the idea of some third attempt, in all capital letters no less.
    The first time I sent e-mail to Nikokn's PR firm the MWW Group, which is our contact to Nikon USA, and I got no response. Yesterday, the editor from photo.net inquired about not getting responses from other unrelated e-mail, and the MWW Group told us that some of our e-mail were directed to the junk folder. Whether it was the same reason that they didn't respond to my e-mail is unclear. So the second time on March 11 I entered an e-mail inquiry on Nikon USA's web site as anyone of us could have done, and this supervisor Chuck (who I didn't know before) responded the following morning with their web site already clarified.
    Nikon USA's 1+4 year warranty on lenses is well known and clearly specified on their warranty card when we purchase new lenses. Therefore, this entire thread is about one ambiguity on one particular Nikon USA web page, out of who knows how many web pages Nikon's various web sites have. To say the least, it is making a mountain out of a molehill.
     
  59. +1 Rick. On all counts.
     
  60. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Rick the OP has indicated to me that he won't post to this thread any more. Since the ambiguity is now resolved by Nikon, I am going to close this thread.
    For the record, I have not deleted anything from this thread, such that its entire history is preserved for people to review.
     

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