O.K. I get it: 4x6 isn't 8x10...Now what?

<p>I've read, experienced, and searched. I get it. My D300 is a 4x6 format. It will never readily translate to 8x10. For that, I need a D3 in order to get the 5:4 ratio that I want.</p>

<p>What is the best technique for a photographer (dx equipped) to handle this? Monkeying around with image size in ps3 gets confusing quickly, and doesn't save any time. Batch cropping isn't going to work either.</p>

<p>What are seasoned photographers doing to answer the popular demand for 8x10 results with cameras that have 4:6 aspect ratio? Do I need to ensure that my photos have a large amount of additional background so as to allow me to crop to this later? Seems like this is going to be difficult to adapt to, particularly if I'm using all my zoom to frame something. Also seems like this increases the chances for matrix metering to give poor results.?<br>

I have a nasty little habit of having important information too near the edges of my frames, and so have run into this issue at the printer again and again.</p>

<p>Chawn</p>

<p>Print 8x12 (which is a standard anyways for artwork) as it's a full 4x6.</p>

<p>For framing it, just put an 8x10 fit mat over it.</p>

<p>People lived with this with 35mm cameras for the last 80 years. It's no big deal, leave room for cropping. After some practice, it's mentally quite easy to figure it out.</p>

<p>Don`t put anything important in the end 2 mm of the field. Then you can make a 8x10.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.katzeyeoptics.com/page--Custom-Grid-Crop-Lines--gridlines.html">http://www.katzeyeoptics.com/page--Custom-Grid-Crop-Lines--gridlines.html</a></p>

<p>Katz makes a screen already scribed of 8x10 for those who need it For a fee She might scribe a factory D300 screen if you don`t want a manual focus one.</p>

<p>The other way is to set a Leica Imarect finder to around 55 mm and the length will match 8x10, but not the height. A friend did this with athletic team pics decades ago and the processor could never figure how he got precise 8x10s from a rangefinder 35mm Leica. The secret is out now. </p>

<p>Most of us just don`t use the ends.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Good Point, Jeff. 35mm never translated exactly to 8x10 either.</p>

<p>For Canon, you can buy focusing screens that allow you to see the image as if it were cropped when you take the picture. Of course, you will still have to go back and crop later, but at least you could frame your shots properly when shooting. Im not familiar with Nikon enough to know if they make the same thing, but I would assume they do.</p>

<p>Chawn, don't let arbitrary "standard" print sizes dictate your choices of equipment. The 8x10 format is simply a remnant of strict adherence to the various applications of geometry derived from observations of the natural world and applied to form conventions in art. (I could have just repeated the old "Golden Mean" and "Rule of Thirds" mantras, but it's a bit more complex than that.) Specifically, the print size was designed to accommodate contact prints from 8x10 negatives.</p>

<p>With a little practice you can learn to visualize the composition you want using any format. While I love the square format and usually print square from 6x6 medium format, I'm not a slave to it. If a photo works better cropped, I crop.</p>

<p>Having grid lines in the viewfinder helps in visualizing the desired composition. My D2H doesn't have that, but I can use the numerous AF sensor brackets as composition aids to check horizons, etc.</p>

<p>If you se Lightroom (up to v2.1 now) i nthe develop mode you can choose an 8x10 crop option. You can then move the crop in which ever direction you choose.The beauty of Lightroom's crop mode is that it is non destructive -- meaning yo udon't actually throw away the parts of the photo you have chosen to crop out. Of course when you export the cropped frame as a TIFF, PSD or JPEG the crop is fixed in those formats but you'll always have the raw to fall back on if you change your mind. All oftheabove is also true for Adobe Camera Raw.</p>

<p>This fixed ratio is also available as a preset in Photoshop's crop tool menu (at least in PsCS3 & PsCS4 -- I can't remember any further back then that but I suspect it is also in most versions of Photoshop.) </p>

<p>If you still have trouble after a while just sell your Nikon and buy an Olympus.</p>

<p>Over 50 years ago, when I was a boy, the local small town newspaper photographer gave me a few lessons. One thing he told me was, "Get your picture and always get more. Do your final composition in the darkroom." When he went on assignment, he never knew exactly how many columns or inches the editor would give any one picture. He need the flexibility.</p>

<p>I have always heeded his advice and been glad I did. Very few standard paper sizes come with a 2x3 aspect ratio.</p>

<p>Olympus or 4x5 ratio is even worse. Just try making a 4x6 from a 4x5 ratio neg. Hugh amounts need to be cut off the top and bottom. I know someone who orders 4x6 from a Canon that is set up like that and heads get cut off. It is terrible to work with if you want 4x5 prints or 3x5 prints.</p>

<p>Most print shops now offer 8 x 12 and 12 x 18 enlargements which perfectly match the 2:3 format. However, <a href="http://terrywhite.com/techblog/?p=1196">these sizes apparently are not readily available for consumer use</a>.</p>

<p>um, OK. if cropping pictures and mentally adjusting your shot to compensate is too much trouble, take up a new hobby.<br>

or just go into photoshop, drag them blue line things to 8 x 10 size and cut out the part to fit. I knew (and still do in many ways) nothing about PhotoShop and have no choice but to use the cropping tool to make all my weird sized digital files fit the standard 4 x 6 printout.<br>

then you provide your printer the exact size and format of file you want.</p>

<p>You can also print a 6" x 9" image on 8 x 10 paper, leaving a white border. That's what I usually do.</p>

<p>Getting a D3 won't help as it's got a 24 x 36 sensor (almost) which equates to 'your' 4 x 6, which is of course 2 x 3 ! as have 35mm cameras ever since they came into being.</p>

<p>The D3 has a mode that will do the 4 x 5 crop inside the camera. I have never used it, preferring, as Brooks puts it, "to get more" and crop in post. Moreover, I have never felt bound by the 4 x 5 format. If a photo comes out in 4 x 6 format, I won't try to force it into another format. If it comes out 2 x 6 it will get printed that way. 8 x 10 is just a paper size, not a law.</p>

<p>just crop</p>

<p>An 8x10 is simply a 4x5 ratio.</p>

<p>If you start with 4x6 and you want to get to 4x5, you want to remove an inch.</p>

<p>Granted, everyone has differently placed AF zones on their various cameras, but on my D40x I only have three...left center right (or top middle bottom if vertical). Particularly for vertical, if my subject falls under the top focus zone, I know I'm good to go. If horizontal, use the left or right as a guide.</p>

<p>"8x10 is just a paper size, not a law"</p>

<p>Very true. I find I need to bear this in mind, however, because most clients are familiar with only the "common" images sizes and this has to be accommodated.</p>

<p>If you are worried about not leaving plenty of room when you are shooting, do the following. Take the ground glass screen out of your camera, and draw a thin line with a sharpie along the short ends to approximate 4x6 or 8x10.<br>

I did this with my 35mm film cameras and although not an elegant solution, works well to keep the image in my normally printed size.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>[um, OK. if cropping pictures and mentally adjusting your shot to compensate is too much trouble, take up a new hobby.] <br>

L.J. Not sure why your snotty attitude detected that it was "too much trouble", when I stated that it has become a "nasty little habit" but I'll be the one to decide what hobbies I choose to take up. Among them will NOT be surfing about online forums telling others where they are deficient.<br>

Thanks to all the others who were willing to share what techniques they use to make this less of an issue.</p>

<p>Chawn</p>

<p><em>Monkeying around with image size in ps3 gets confusing quickly, and doesn't save any time.</em><br>

PS will crop to any format you want by simply typing in the length and width dimensions when using the crop tool. Also, labs now print to any number of paper dimensions. I always crop my images to whatever looks the best and add borders to equal the nearest print size available with the "canvas size" tool. As others have pointed out, 35mm was never an 8x10 format and somehow we "muddled through" in the darkroom to get 8x10 prints when we needed them. The only cameras that I ever used that had the specific 4x5/8x10/11x14/16x20 format were my 4x5 view camera and later a Pentax 6x7. The 4.5x6 medium format cameras were also in that ratio.<br>

<em></em></p>

<p>This is not an issue, or a problem at all, in my opinion. How difficult is it to go into Photoshop and crop? I don't even regard it as an extra step it is so minor, especially considering the baseline adjustments you need to make anyway if you shoot RAW. Good advice in the above posts. It is not such a mental drain framing a shot with a particular final crop size in mind.....</p>

<p>I see there are all sort of career counselors out today.</p>

<p>"Monkeying around in CS3 gets confusing quickly" when a shot has been taken with important information too close to the edges to not suffer from cropping when an 8x10 has been demanded. Guess I should have replaced "confusing" with "futile".</p>

<p>Almost sorry I asked. Probably will be truly I did before the end of the day.</p>

<p>Never did see where I was "frustrated"; just trying to learn.</p>

<p><br />How about you post some of your photos that are such a problem, and allow some photo.net members to fix them for you. Lots of people here are willing to share their talents and skills for no charge. You may be pleasantly surprised how easy it really is and learn some new techniques.<br /><br /><em>"Monkeying around with image size in ps3 gets confusing quickly"</em><br /><em>"...this is going to be difficult to adapt to, particularly if... "</em><br /><em>"...so have run into this issue at the printer again and again"</em><br /><br />In part, just these three negative statements of yours in the initial request suggest that you can't and/or don't want to learn how to fix the problem.<br>

Instead of coming across as trying to learn, you seem to be presenting objections against the only solutions that will fix the issue.<br>

<br />Good luck with learning or with your new hobby :) Guess I should have included the little smiley face the first time so you wouldn't have got so excited.</p>

<p>For the D300, frame the image within the focus area and you'll get an approximate 8x10 pseudo-crop, then in photoshop batch crop the files.</p>