non "hypo" fixers

Discussion in 'Black and White' started by j_nanian, Jun 16, 2002.

  1. hi
    i recenlty learned about the formulary's non-hypo archival fixer.

    besides shortened fix time, and not needing stop bath, or a fixer
    remover (like perma wash) is this fixer that much different than
    what i have been using (sprint fixer)?

    is there any hardener in the forumulary's fixer?

    thanks in advance !
  2. Do a search on "TF-4" and you'll find some responses about it. I've been using it for a month or two and quite like it. It is non-hardening, I believe. It is indeed a very rapid fixer with the advantages you mention as well as less odor. It seems to be quite good at clearing the T-Max anti-halation layer--6 minutes and a normal wash without need for Permawash does it.
  3. It's good stuff! I find the need for a good rinse (several changes of water) annoying, but the fixing action and low odor are great. To my knowledge, it's non-hardening.
  4. I presume this is the stuff the Formulary sent me a small sample of last year, but I didnt find it to be that non-odorous. But the sample they sent was so ridiculously small as to be nearly useless
  5. If you're talking about TF-4, I was under the impression that it is still a thiosulfate fixer (like rapid fixers from Kodak, Ilford etc) but it's non-acidic so it has the advantages you mention.

    Another good fixer that is non-acidic and very reasonably priced (here in Australia) is Agfa FX-Universal, sold primarily as a color fixer but very suitable for b+w too. Its pH is about 7.5 when diluted 1+4. I use it for everything.

    Apparently film and paper can continue to develop in the more alkaline fixers, especially since acid stop baths are not recommended for use in conjunction with alkaline fixers.
  6. TF-4 is ammonium thiosulfate based. The odor is similar to ammonia rather than the familiar fixer smell.
  7. This subject title is confusing because there are non-thiosulfate based fixers while people here are talking about thiosulfate fixers that are not as acidic as traditional acid fixers. Hypo is a misnomer for thiosulfate.

    You can get most of the advertised benefit of TF-4 with Ilford Multigrade Fixer. It's a cheap, easily available, and excellent non-hardening rapid fixer. It's only slightly acidic but not acidic enough to require wash aid, long wash time, etc. This is because its pH is above the point where thiosulfate and silver complex ions tend to adsorb in gelatin matrix.
  8. The only common alternatives to Sodium or Ammonium thiosulphate that I know of are: Sodium or Potassium Thiocyanate; and Sodium or Potassium Cyanide.<br>Thiocyanate is rapid working, but somewhat expensive, and Cyanide is very rapid working and extremely poisonous.<p>Personally, I'll stick with good old-fashioned, tried and tested Ammonium Thiosulphate rapid fixer.<p>Honestly. I think you could sell people ordinary water at an inflated price, if you just told them it was new, 'organic' and improved.<br>Oh wait! That's already been done.
  9. When I saw "organic sugar" my eyes pushed out of my skull by 5cm anteriorly. I've never heard of "inorganic sugar." You sometimes don't even need to list up new things.
  10. thank you for your help.

    I was given a quart of concentrate to try out. before i mixed it, i
    just wanted to make sure it didn't have hardener in it, and it
    wasn't going to change my archival processing.

    thanks again

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