Noctilux 50/1 lens

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by may|2, Sep 12, 2008.

  1. Hi there!

    Can anyone please advice if I should buy a Noctilux 50/1 lens special limited edition at a high price? It is not available anymore
    and was told by a reputable shop that Leica informed that it is to be obsolete, rumours said that a 50/0.95 is coming out to market next
    year. I think this lens is superb and great for my street photography. Thank you all!

    MYMY
     
  2. Leica will make a Noctilux-M 0,95/50 Asph. at a cost of 8000 Euros available. And an Elmar-M 3,8/24 Asph. for 1800 Euros, a Summilux-M 1,4/21 Asph. for 5000 Euros and a Summilux-M 1,4/24 Asph. for 5000 Euros.

    Ulrik
     
  3. Ulrik,

    Thank you for you info, so would you advice I should wait, and would you have any idea when it will be released? And is
    there a tremendous change except in the f/stop.
    I have just bought the M8 with the 35/1:2 summicron lens and have fallen in love with the superb quality of sharpness and
    crisp work it produced. Please continue advice. At moment I uses the Canon 40D and 5D with multiple lenses, until I got
    hold of this for my nature of work. Thank you
     
  4. I would advise that you can do street photography with totally less cash outlay. Try one of the Zeiss lenses, perhaps, and buy a print from me with the rest of the money.
     
  5. Sorry, I am unable to give advice as I have no exerience with these lenses. I just enjoy a 2,8/50 mm Elmar-M. Release for the new lenses should be at Photokina this month.

    Ulrik
     
  6. <I think this lens is superb and great for my street photography. >

    Why?
     
  7. If you're buying as a collectible for investment, we can't read the tea leaves any better than anyone else. Depends on how the economy treats the very rich over the next few years. However, a mint 50/1.2 Noctilux (very rare) is probably a better investment, it wasn't an "intentional" collectors' edition. For that matter, Swiss Francs might be a better investment. (I tripled my Dollars on some over the last 15 years.)

    If you're buying to to use, it would make sense to wait for reactions to the 50/0.95, which is probably a better lens. Of course, that all depends on what results you want out of using it. If you like strong vignetting, and dizzying swirly bokeh, you may love the 50/1.0.
     
  8. >>> I think this lens is superb and great for my street photography.

    Actually, I think it would be a very poor choice for street photography.
     
  9. I agree, for the following reasons:

    1. Insurance to take it outside of your home (for actual use) would be very high.

    2. You are probably stuck with f/0.95 (what is the point of stopping down such a special lens?)

    3. You are restricted for limited lighting situations. Bright sunlight means ND filters.

    4. You can not change the lenses easily for fear of scartches and putting a dent in the resale values.

    5. As John, says, Swiss Francs are better. :)
     
  10. Hey guys,

    I do agree this particular lens is way not ideal for street photography, I got what you meant. I meant overall
    this M8 with my present 35/1.2 is the one. What I want is to enjoy taking images with a different feel, as I don't enjoy
    tweaking and spend ages at the computer. This Noctilux 50/1 is it not good enough? Advice please!
     
  11. The Noctilux is good for street photography if you get into a fight on the street & need something heavy to defend yourself with.
    Frankly, you'll be better served by throwing some Swiss francs, as mentioned above, at your attacker(s).
     
  12. Dear Friends

    I am only a new owner of a Leica M8, would anyone of you need or want to use this Noctilux in their photography? At least
    tell me, why yes or no! I really did consider what Vivek said about insurance to take it outside of home is high..tell me
    something else. Whatabout the Canon 50/0.89 (if I have not mistaken)? Advice
     
  13. Dear Friends

    Overall I think I got the message. At the end of the day let the choice be mine. I fully understand everyone's advices, I
    still wish I can own this lens for personal reasons. Unfortunately it's not available. Thank you all for you time!
     
  14. I have to thank John Shriver for his clear thoughts about using this particular lens. That is exactly what I want.
    Thank you.
     
  15. It's a terribly heavy lens for one, and it's a difficult lens to focus accurately wide open. The DOF is very very small and you need to be spot on. It's one of the reasons I let mine go about 25 years ago. And I had extremely good eyesight at the time.
     
  16. Brad is right, unless you are gymnastically inclined, trying to get spot on focus with this lens is very demanding in (often)
    fast moving street photography. For what it's worth, if you want more light on the sensor, why not a 50mm Nokton f1.5 aspheric, or one of
    VCs 35 or 40mm f1.4 lenses? Although I am a fairly meek street-shooter (without a bodyguard friend for potential support), I would rather
    have good depth of field from a much shorter lens (50mm is 67mm effective on the M8) and shoot a bit closer with better depth of field.
     
  17. Thanks Michael and Arthur, I think you guys really convinced me into giving up this lens (size, weight, price). I have to
    agree, indeed there are alternatives. I am thinking clearly now...
     
  18. Noctilux. If you want to "focus easily" just stop the lens down! How about to f2 so its like a Summicron? Just 'cos
    one has an 0,95 lens doesn't mean you always have to shoot at full aperture. Surely the whole point of the Noctilux
    is that the wide aperture is there should you want it?
     
  19. Thanks Robin, you make me think again.. mm mm!
     
  20. May, if you're a new user to an M8, you'd be better served with a Summicron 28. It'd be fast, and would give you a field
    of view similar to that of a 35mm in a film context. A Noctilux is a very especialized lens, useful for very low light
    (available darkness situations). More often than not, any slight deviation in the camera rangefinder may throw the
    focusing out of whack (which wouldn't happen with other lenses, however fast, just because of the Noctilux's VERY
    shallow depth of field). Hence, it won't improve your street shots. Experience, observation and care will. Look at other
    people's photographs, learn to "find" a situation and your shots will improve. A Noctilux... is very expensive and not
    guaranteed. Otherwise, all of us here would have mortgaged our homes or postponed buying a car or a computer to get
    a Noctilux of any type.

    Good luck with your camera!
     
  21. Hi Francisco, it is so nice to hear from a gentleman who treats me like a lady and a new user to an M8. You are so kind
    and clear in you words. I greatly appreciate that you are talking to me like my lecturer in photography, very patient and
    encouraging in order that I get it right. You are spot on it is only a fancy lens there are other alternatives. Yes, very pricey.

    Thank you
     
  22. The f1 is not really sharp wide open. Also it blocks half of the viewfinder and is very heavy to carry around. For street the f2 is better.
     
  23. SCL

    SCL

    Hi May - I'll join the chorus, having owned both a Noctilux and a Canon 50\0.95. Both lenses were good for well planned low light shots with a "romantic"look to them wide open. Closed down they were just like a Summicron IMHO. Due to the razor sharp DOF, they are indeed critical to focus wide open, and IMHO not at all suited to most street shooting. Most of the bokeh effects can be better achieved with PS or other real darkroom techniques. I fell in love with both lenses but after a couple of years with each, discovered that for most of my work there were better, lighter and less expensive options, and sold both and have never regretted it.
     
  24. You are welcome, May. I hope you find a lens that fits your style and needs, so that you can post your work here and
    elsewhere soon!
     
  25. That depends on what you want to use it for, May. Say if you are into portraits, there are indeed many other choices to choose from; but for street photog, I would mostly stick with the Cron and that'd be it; but then there is one thing for sure - you would never regret buying a Noc for both as an investment or to use it daily (just my very personal opinion) 'cuz it is indeed the BEST Leica 50mm lens out there.
     
  26. What I say 'the BEST' is very personal, I like my pre-ASPH Lux50 too, so as Rigid Cron and Summar, etc. But from my experience to shooting 'artsy' portraits, the Noc + say Provia400X is really hard to beat. So go for it my friend. :)
     
  27. Oh last but not least, I re-read what you said for your 'street photography'. Well, get a 28 - I heard from somewhere they are making a 28 Lux or Cron - and you would be really getting into street photography. What I said in my previous posts were just about portrait lens. Noc can be okay to carry around on the street but not exactly advised, indeed.

    All in all, if you still want a 50 for street photog, I recommend either a Rigid Cron (U never go wrong with that one, especially for B&W pictures - wait, M8 ... okay ... still, no problem) or the latest Cron - sharp like razor blade.
     
  28. The F1 Noct cost me 400 bucks used back in the late 1970's; about what a used Ford Pinto was worth; or two Chevy Vegas; or 700 gallons of gasoline. As an investment buying Walmart would have been better.Tools typically are NOT investments; you are nuts if you think they are. If you use a lens for street work its going to get some non functional blems with time. Buying a used Noct is a better bet; most folks own it for a fling and then sell it off as even money; or a loss.The lens IS sharp if focused well; its NOT if you miss focus; or have a body normally used with a Summicron at F8.:) It has an outstanding lack of flare. If you are going to use it stopped down you should just use at Summicron at F2. When I got my Noct the fastest print film was 200 asa; and 400 was just coming out and total crap. Today Superia 800 at Walmart is better than a 1970's asa 160 print film;plus it has 4l ayers to handle odd/mixed lighting types. With a F2 Summicrons today and asa 800 film you are better of than using a Noct at F1 back in the 1970's if one uses print films. I only learned of the "blocking hallf the viewfinder; heavyness,a nd having to use a "steer" AFTER photo.net came out; TWO decades after owning the lens. Here with my M3 the blockage is not much and has never been an issue; nor has the lens had any stiffness issues; its not much heavier than my old Nikkor 85mm F2 made out of brass.
     
  29. Hi May, You're better off getting the Noctilux on the user market. There are some for sale here, most of them, if in
    mint condition, go for US$5500 to US$6000, for the same lens that is being sold in the wooden box:

    http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/index.php?cat=1

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=29


    Don't listen to all the negative views on the Noctilux. Some are indeed legitimate, but most of the others are from
    people who have never held the lens, let alone used it. It takes patience and perseverance to fully exploit its
    capabilities. In other words, it's not for everyone, definitely not for the "f8 and be there" crowd.

    Here are some pics from this lens:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyoshima/tags/noctilux/

    http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=63325

    http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=60589

    http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49075

    To get more meaningful responses, try these two forums:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3

    http://www.rangefinderforum.com/

    I'm sorry to say, but there is a lot of negativity towards anything Leica on this forum lately. And some of those who
    post these negative views belong to other forums that I mentioned, and somehow don't say anything negative about
    Leica over there.

    Best of luck with your decision!
     
  30. 35mm 1:2.8 Summaron was born for street shooting
    00QpVQ-70679584.jpg
     
  31. I think depth of field is the key. If I want to be able to quickly pull my camera up to eye, shoot and scoot I'm going to be prefocused at a given distance and stopped down maybe to f/8 for some depth of field. Dont' need 1.0 for that.
     
  32. You don't even need a Summicron for that -- buy a Summarit -- or Summitar -- save some money and donate the rest to a good cause...
     
  33. A Cosina Voigtlander 35mm f1.2 and an M8 would be about a fast 50mm FOV and its got a flatter less light falloff on the edges. Go on Flicka and look up photos taken with this lens they really pop. Its a large lens but a great bargain at $800.
     
  34. One important point -- the Noctilux 50/1 has a very long focusing throw, almost an entire turn to go from infinity to the closest distance (a little under 1 meter). That's required to make it focus accurately. But, when working fast, even stopped down to f/8, it means you still have to turn it a lot more than a typical Leica 50mm lens, which has half a turn of focusing throw, or the 35mm Summicron, which as a quarter of a turn of focusing throw.
     
  35. I have a Noctilux 50/1 and shoot only film through non TTL M6s. I use it rarely. I prefer the Summicron 50/2. On a recent South American trip I took the 50/2, the Voitlander Cosina 35/1.2 as a low light option and a 28/3.5 Color Skopar. I used all three lenses but the overwhelming majority of shots were taken with the 28. I am a rank amateur and enjoying shooting candid street shots. The big lenses are just too much trouble for me to actually use.
    00Qpa7-70697584.jpg
     
  36. May, I've been shooting street with Noctilux for almost a year and I went through quite a few other 35-50mm lenses including Leica 35mm f1.4 both pre-ASPH and ASPH, Leica 50mm f1.4 ASPH, Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f1.4 and Minolta Rokkor 40mm f2 and in my opinion Noctilux is like no other lens. Surely it is heavy, large, difficult to focus, very expensive and obstructs 1/4 ow viewfinder but once you'll learn how to deal with all this it will give you images like no other lens. It is not as sharp as other lenses, it does vignette, it does have swirly bokeh sometimes but it has much more of something else too that I value the most - character. It is simply the best lens I have ever used, I always think that when I look at my images. The only problem for you is that on M8 50mm is no longer 50mm, you'll have FOV of 65mm lens and it is a little too long for my taste. Anyway, here is a few images form my beloved Nocti:

    <img src="http://www.tomwidlak.com/stuff/nocti/01.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.tomwidlak.com/stuff/nocti/02.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.tomwidlak.com/stuff/nocti/03.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.tomwidlak.com/stuff/nocti/04.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.tomwidlak.com/stuff/nocti/05.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.tomwidlak.com/stuff/nocti/06.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.tomwidlak.com/stuff/nocti/07.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.tomwidlak.com/stuff/nocti/08.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.tomwidlak.com/stuff/nocti/09.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.tomwidlak.com/stuff/nocti/10.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.tomwidlak.com/stuff/nocti/11.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.tomwidlak.com/stuff/nocti/12.jpg">
     
  37. A M8 and a mint Noctilux? In other words a few grands hanging from your neck while walking the seedy streets?

    I didn't know street photography has gone "bourgeois" ;-))
     
  38. The lens will be heavy and the edges will have built in vignette. This is because the lens is normally used in dark, dark places where the vignetting won't make much difference. If I were you I'd take a trip to a large library where they have back copies of Popular Photography or Modern Photography. You'll find a comparison of all the ultra-fast lenses of yesteryear with the Nikon 50 f/1.2 Noct, Leica 50 f/1, and Canon's 50 f/.95 lenses tested. I think the comparison was in the early 1980's. Good luck. Personally, I'd love to have one of those lenses just to have one, especially since most of my pictures are taken in available light, but the weight and price differences compared with the f/1.4 models is really high.

    Good luck.
     
  39. May Yoon --
    If street photography is what you want to do, and do most often, the 35mm focal length seems to be preferred by many photographers for several reasons. There is greater apparent depth of field with a 35mm lens than with a 50mm lens, so one can zone focus (that is, focus the lens using its distance scale for the approximate distance one expects to be from the subject when taking the photo) and take pictures very quickly without pausing to refocus the lens. The 35mm lenses also tend to be physically smaller and lighter than 50 mm lenses (although there are a few notable exceptions), so they are easier to carry around for long periods of time, and don't attract much attention. Most 35mm rangefinder lenses since the 1950s also have relatively large maximum apertures, useful for shooting in available light.

    There are a number of good 35mm rangefinder lenses available for Leicas, covering a broad range of prices. The classic one is Leica's own 35mm f/2 Summicron, which has been made in several different versions over the years. There are also older Canon 35mm f/1.8 and f/2 lenses in LTM mount, usable on an M-mount camera with an adapter; various Voightlander/Cosina 35mm lenses; Leica's 35mm f/1.4 Summilux lenses; and some fairly recent Zeiss lenses.

    The 50mm focal length also has its advocates for street photography. This focal length has a somewhat more natural perspective than the 35mm; and can be given a large maximum aperture while still remaining a relatively reasonable size and weight. The 50mm f/2 lenses, such as Leica's 50mm f/2 Summicron, tend to emphasize maximum visual quality at the expense of speed. The 50mm f/1.4 lenses, such as Leica's 50mm f/1.4 Summilux or Canon's older 50mm f/1.4 in LTM, deliver a good balance of high optical quality and high maximum aperture.

    The Leica 50mm f/1.2 or f/1, the older Canon 50mm f/1.2 and 50mm f/0.95 in LTM, and the rumored new Leica 50mm f/0.95, tend to emphasize the largest possible maximum aperture for shooting under very dark available light conditions, but often do not match the optical quality of the slower f/2 and f/1.4 lenses until stopped down by several stops. They also have very shallow depth of field compared with f/2 and f/1.4 lenses, and thus require careful, precise and accurate focusing to produce effective results -- which means slower focusing and less grab shooting for street photography. They tend to be noticeably larger and heavier than 50mm f/2 or 50mm f/1.4 lenses, and draw more attention to the camera. They are also much more expensive, because they are produced in smaller quantities or, if older and out of production, are rarer. If your camera gets damaged or stolen while doing street photography, they will be much more expensive to replace.

    Having said those things, Leica's 50mm f/1 Noctilux has a reputation for very painterly photographic qualities at maximum aperture, for excellent suppression of flare and ghost images, and for very high optical quality overall. It offers those qualities at the cost of being larger, heavier, more obvious, and much more expensive than 50mm f/2 or f/1.4 lenses.

    If you do a lot of photography under dark available light conditions, need an extra-large maximum aperture to maximize your chances of getting adequately exposed photos under such adverse conditions, and are a professional photographer who can take a tax deduction for the cost of equipment, then a 50mm f/1 lens might make sense.

    If you are just starting out with Leica and street photography, my personal suggestion would be to buy a used Leica 35mm f/2 Summicron first, and then a used Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux, and use them both for a while to get a sense of what they can do, before making a very large investment in a specialized lens. If they meet your needs, then you are all set. If neither one of them has a large enough maximum aperture to handle the kind of photography you do on a routine basis, then you can always sell the 50mm f/1.4 and buy a Noctilux.
     
  40. I sold my Noctilux because it was just gathering dust. The long lens throw makes it too slow to use in any kind of dynamic situation, and I bumped into the 1m minimum focus distance (vs. 0.7m for the other lenses) surprisingly often. In practice the Summilux lenses get the shot more often than the ponderous Noctilux.

    The lens I use everyday on my MP is a 50mm Summilux ASPH and on my M8 a 35mm Summilux ASPH. Consider also the 28mm Summicron or the excellent 21mm, 25mm or 28mm Biogon ZM from Zeiss Ikon.
     
  41. Hi there guys, I want to say thank you to all who had taken their time to express their thoughts, advice and words of
    encouragement to me. Greatly appreciate. As a freshie, I guess I got a long way to go and enjoying what my passion is
    "people photography/portraiture"

    I have to say Tomasz, I love your story images. This is the way I see and want to capture my surroundings, I know
    there is time what, where and when as to do these, cos sometimes I want my subject to look alive and not flat. Please
    advice me in future on your skills in photography.

    Thanks to Peter for you are so detailed and knowledgeable with cameras and lenses, you gotta write a handbook or
    something related, cos I need one! I will take heed of your advice. I am presently using the 35/2 ASPH Summicron and
    loving it. Agreed it is the best for street shots.

    Thanks to Fazal, I will definitely look into the 50/1.4 Summilux ASPH and the 28 Biogon, I would assume it is just as
    great, as they are Zeiss lens.

    Thank you so much, who knows if a Noctilux ever come my way at a good bargain, I still will give it a go, I know I want
    this in my collection whether I get to use it or not, but not at US$16k though, not yet!!!
     
  42. In a rougher area I just use my old black Zorki 3c and 50mm F1.2 Canon LTM; this combo cost me less than 100 bucks long ago. To three decade Noct owner many of the comments about the Noct seem totally bizzare; goofy, weird. Here my M3 is only set to use 1 meter lenses; I have not modified it; most all of my lenses only focus to 1 meter. Comments about the lens being taking long to focus seem oddball too; my lens is easy to focus; heck almost loose. Comments about the lens being heavy are also oddball; its a bigger tool; it HAS to have more glass to be a F1 lens. My 10" Bigfoot circular beam cutting saw is heavier than my 7 1/4" saws; its a bigger tool to do a bigger job; ie cut 4x4's and 4x6's with one cut. My 16 and 12 pound sledge hammers weight more than my 6 lb ones for a reason; they have to be.:) The Noct is a one night stand lens for most all photo.net folks; its bought and used for awhile and then folks find out it its heavier; it cannot cook,sew, raise kids and bake bread like a F2 Summicron. Its not rocket science that a F1 lens; or a 10" circular saw; or a 12 Lb sledge hammer has to weight more; or cost more. Many folks will be fine to own a F2 Summicron; 7 1/4" skill saw. and a 16oz claw hammer; they weight less; they cost less; they take up less room. From a Summicrons users standpoint a pile driver is not needed; you just tape the pile a zillion times with a claw hammer. :)
     
  43. Probably no other Leica lens except the Noct is a one night stand lens. Folks buy them used and shoot some images with a body thats not been aligned since Ford was President and then blame the lens due to ego reasons. Thus many duffus folks say the Noct is not sharp wide open and its horrible. The *safety factor* of using your F2 Summicron at F8 has been lost; OR you bought somebody elses poorer Noct thats probably been messed with. <BR><BR>From a street shooting perspective using a 35mm lens might be a better choice; a fast lens if you can afford one.
     
  44. but it has much more of something else too that I value the most - character.
    I think this so-called "character" is actually what makes most images shot with a Noctilux visually annoying. Any content that was in the picture is overcome by the Noct's intrusion on form. You want a personal style to come from the way you handle shape, line, value, tone and moment, not from using a particular exotic lens. The first is not easily imitable; the second can be imitated by anyone with a decent credit line.
    Having said that, there are valid reasons to own a Noctilux:
    1. You are not a good enough photographer to handle foregrounds and backgrounds. Cranking a Noct to f/1 effectively obliterates them, so you only have to consider subject.
    2. You still shoot film. A Noct will allow you to finish that ISO 100 roll even as the light begins to fade.
    3. You shoot an M8. Leica's design philosophy of "let's make stratospherically expensive, exotic optics to make up for the fact that our sensor is piss-poor at any ISO higher than 640 without extensive post-processing" almost makes a Noct mandatory. If you had the wherewithal (lol) to pony up for an M8 despite all its issues then a Noct shouldn't be too much of a stretch either.
    If you wish to be "none of the above," then 1) get a 35 or 50/2 Summicron and learn how use foreground and background to effectively convey depth; 2) go digital so you can set ISO to whatever a particular situation demands; or 3) lose the M8 and buy a real camera (even a $500 digital Rebel gives superb ISO 1600 performance without needing post processing, freeing up time you can spend shooting instead of Photoshopping).
    I also recommend studying the work of great street photographers like Joel Meyerowitz, Jeff Mermelstein (part 1a, 1b, 2), Bruce Gilden and Garry Winogrand. As you can see, good street photography doesn't have anything to do with an f/1 lens.
     
  45. Thanks for the images, Tomasz. The bokeh of this lens is very unusual... it almost looks manipulated (or painted as someone else said). I'm used to shooting with the extreme bokeh of the Nikkor 85mm 1.4mm, but I've never seen anything like the Noctilux. I could see how some people would love that bokeh and others would steer clear.

    I would never hang $8000 around my neck.
     
  46. BTW I didn't pull that Leica philosophy BS out of my ass, it came straight from the horse's mouth (Leica CEO Andreas Kaufmann):
    PopPhoto: In testing the Leica M8, I found its performance to be outstanding at ISO 320 and very good at ISO 640, but with noticeable noise at ISO 1250. Many late-model DSLRs from other leading makers now claim to deliver topnotch performance in the ISO 1600-3200 range. Will Leica do anything to provide enhanced performance at higher ISOs in a future M model?

    Kaufmann: The fundamental concept of the Leica M is delivering the pure image captured by the lens, and this is not possible if you adopt the philosophy of using extensive software to massage an imperfect image.

    Yeah, because colorful speckles and blotches are part of the "pure image captured by the lens," amirite? LOL
     
  47. I know I want this in my collection whether I get to use it or not, but not at US$16k though, not yet!!!
    May Young: When did the price jump to US $16,000/- for this lens?! ;)
     
  48. Whats funny is that here I bought the used Noct back in the late 1970's for astro work; it had nothing to do with street photography or shallow out of focus effects; or street usage or artsy farts stuff.. Its cost was about 1/3 more than my 1973 new Nikkormat Ftn with 50mm F1.4 SC; about 1 1/2 times considering inflation. Its cost was about the same as a round Delta airline flight from LA to NYC then; NOT something super BIG. I paid more for a high end HP engineering calculator than my Noct. My used Noct cost 40 percent of what a new TI99 computer cost. The Noct lens was "only":) 800 to 1000 bucks used in 2001; about double; what a used M3 body went for. The lowest price I have seen a Noct for a Leica go for is 280 bucks back in the 1970's In the old Shutterbug adverts. The current US dollar's decline has made many German items more expensive. Angst and rubbish about the Noct being bad seems to be a modern trend for folks new to Leica; by many folks who like to bash it since its now a more expensive lens. Modern Color films and digital bodies make for radically easier shooting with low light work;and a F1 lens is often not required as much today; thus the Noct is fun to bash as being not required by most all. One can go to Walmart and buy a 130 dollar digital P&S camera and have a more powerfull settup then a 1970's M camera and Noct with asa 200 print film. If one today has iso 800 film and a Noct and the exposure is 1/8 at F1; summicron users can shoot at 1/2 second at F2 since they have a perfect hand holding ability. In the same light farmers can stop using bush hogs and just weed eaters too!:)<BR><BR>
     
  49. For astro fun stuff the Noct here on the Epson RD-1 records Orion in 4 seconds what I would shoot in the late 1960's with GAF 500 slide film with many minutes exposure using my then fastest F1.4 Nikon F Nikkors; with the on clock driven telescope hand corrected with a reticle say on a bright star. The F1 Noct is radically better than my 1960's and 1970's F1.4 Nikkors ; the main stars of Orion have way worse batwings. The shot was with the moon in thes sky too and with street lights. <img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/EPSON%20R-D1/_EPS2428500widefull4secf1.jpg?t=1221332422"><BR><BR><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/EPSON%20R-D1/_EPS2428OrionBelt4secF1.jpg?t=1221332962">
     
  50. If street photography is your main shooting situation. I would use a 35mm f2.0 Summicron ASPH. For the street you want, light, fast, and complete visibility through the viewfinder. If you want even smaller and faster. You can use the 35mm f1.4 Summilux. It's not as sharp as the ASPH but is one of the smallest lens Leica made (without the hood). Thanks
     
  51. May,

    What you can see from the responses here is that Leica M gear is one of the few industrial products that causes visceral
    and emotional reactions on both sides of the aisle. In fact, I challenge you to find another product where people who don't
    own it or even use it, spend endless energy trying to bash it on internet forums. An anthropologist woud have a field day.
    Add to it that it is a German product, and the armchair historians get into the game as well. It's just glass, metal and plastic
    parts, but the internet wars are endless.

    The Noctilux is a specialized lens, but if that's what satisfies you, then why limit yourself by others' opinions. You only live
    once, and if money is not a problem, by all means indulge. Most of the arguments against it are about money. The problem
    arises when people who cannot afford it, buy it and then regret tying up so much money in a piece of glass. For a
    hobbyist, anyone who borrows money, or is pushed to the limit to buy something, it is foolish to even consider putting
    money into anything. Going into debt for a hobby is insane, but you see it on the Leica related forums all the time. I can't
    think of anything else where people lose all sense of fiscal prudence, ok maybe with ladies handbags and shoes. Heaven
    help a woman who likes Leica M.

    I know people who only travel first class. They pay $8000 for a ticket where I pay $1200. To my thinking that's $6800 down
    the drain (that's more than a new Noctilux difference for just a day's air trip), for it's not in my budget, but it's no problem for
    them. They don't like sitting in economy, never have. They always vote Republican. Can I argue with them and say that by
    travelling economy they will get from A to B just as quickly as by travelling first class? It's like saying get the Summicron,
    and don't waste money on the Noctilux, for you'll get the shot with either lens.

    In the end, discount all the money arguments, and go with your emotions, for a hobby is a lot about emotion.
     
  52. >>> What you can see from the responses here is that Leica M gear is one of the few industrial products that causes
    visceral and emotional reactions on both sides of the aisle. I challenge you to find another product where people who don't
    own it or even use it, spend endless energy trying to bash it on internet forums.

    You're missed the point; and it's not about leica. It's the silly idea of using a f/1 lens for SP. Same would be true if it were
    a canon or nikon lens...
     
  53. The narrow depth of field with an f/1 lens would make it very difficult to shoot anything that isn't completely stationary. It's difficult to focus my Nikkor 85mm f1.4 and I can only imagine how hard it would be with an f1 lens.
     
  54. Hi Vic. I am sorry to say how I could have missed your comment before. You spoke my mind and knows (a lady artist) my
    heart. So photography be it Street/portraiture/landscape is my passion and it started just a hobby. I traveled widely on
    first class and money is not an issue, because this is who I am. I am blessed and grateful for everything. I am loving
    this passion that I got the M8 but fell in love with the "artistic" shots of a Nocti so I wanted to know more through this
    forum. I have to agree that it was quite an intimidating approach with all kinds of feedbacks and critics, (there are some
    gentlemen, though! thank you). As I was only a freshie I need some advices from pros out there in this community
    forum... I wish I didn't ask. I have reserved a collector special limited edition Norti, signed and engraved by Leica from Germany, maybe
    just keep it and sell it in Japan, they will love it, I know!

    Thank you Vic, you really got my point of view. I appreciate your gentle confrontation and advices. At the end of the day I
    learnt from doing what I love best i.e. documentary/street/people photography, has always been tough and challenging.

    All the best to you too!
     
  55. It's the silly idea of using a f/1 lens for SP. Same would be true if it were a canon or nikon lens...
    In fairness, the EOS mount Canon 50/1 is a dog compared to M mount Noctilux or the Canon 50/0.95. This has a lot to do with RF focusing than the optical qualities, perhaps.
     
  56. In the pre digital days one could capture car/truck license plates with non pushed tri-x; maybe to capture a Rancho:) with wire wheels? Today with digtial and a M8 or RD-1 one could capture this with a Summicron at F2. This is just a dumb street shot with Tri-x; the distance is so far away that one can scale focus this shot; done at 1/5 second on a m3 while the driver in a car. To a purist a F1.4 or F2 would be a zillion times sharper; and the lack of flare considered bunk.:) The grain looks abit poor; not sure what the local old lab used; maybe dektol? :) :)<BR><BR> <img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/Noct/tripods-322.jpg?t=1221402258"><BR><BR><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/Noct/tripods-323.jpg?t=1221402358"><BR><BR><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/Noct/tripods-324.jpg?t=1221402407"><BR><BR>
     
  57. Another Orion shot but with a new Summciron at F2; with a moon in the sky and some clouds to bias the look :) This exposure like the other Orion shot was with an Epson RD-1/ s with the iso cranked up to 1600; the exposure was only 2.8 seconds via the auto expsoure setting; maybe the cloud/centerweighting?<BR><BR>One can say the Summicron at F2 is sharper than the Noct at F1; and its DOF a greater number of lightyears! :)<BR><BR>Both shots were with the camera on an old Tiltall tripod; no cable release was use; just ones finger.<BR><BR>A faster lens such as a F1 captures "sky fog" quicker than a slower F2 lens. Galaxies and Gas clouds are "enlargeable" thus the F stop matters. For a point source like a star its the actual diameter of the aperture that matters; ie a F1 50mm lens is like a 50mm diameter bucket; a F2 lens a 25 mm bucket.<BR><BR><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/EPSON%20R-D1/_EPS0544ORION50mmF28secondsiso800.jpg"><BR><BR><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/EPSON%20R-D1/_EPS0544ORION50mmF28secondsiso800CR.jpg">
     
  58. who in his right mind could want an f1.0 lens when an f0.95 lens is available for just a few more thousand euros...?
     
  59. Hey, technical question (please, try to keep the response as accessible as possible): how can one even create an f/.95 lens? Wouldn't that imply an aperture wider than the focal length of the lens? If it would, wouldn't that imply that the additional speed (to f/1) is useless? Thanks.
     
  60. For 8mm cine work Bolex made a Kern Switar AR 13mm F0.9 long ago; in *D-mount*. Thats Kern-Paillard of Switzerland; its a coated lens. Its got F-stops to stop down to F1, 1.4, thru F22; it focuses to 0.25 meters. Kern made this lens when Kodachrome was asa 10; ie prior to 1962. This is a nornal lens for 8mm cine; about 12 to 13mm; ie 1/2 inch focal length. The front element is larger than 13mm; since its a F 0.9 lens; the last one that was on Epray went for 65 bucks; 260275085137 I am not the buyer or seller; about what I paid for mine in the early 1970's . The *dots* on the body of the lens are holes where one is white thats for the fstop you are at;ie a DOF indicator. The lens in the auction doesnt have the 10mm long lens hood that I have; but has a case.Its a nice lens for a small sensor too; ie security camera. I wish my cellphone had a D mount!<BR><BR>As you mentioned; a lens faster than F1 has a larger clear diameter its focal length. This can be jjust a dumb single element thick magnifer too; some molded ones that are for stamps and coins are faster tthan F1.
     
  61. Nikon made a 50mm F1.1 once in Leica Thread mount; Zunow made one too. The 0.95 canon gets mentioned alot; plus very common F1.2 canon in LTM too.
     
  62. "who in his right mind could want an f1.0 lens when an f0.95 lens is available for just a few more thousand
    euros...?"
    This is probably why the f1.0 Nocts are so plentiful on Ebay. The Leica addicts are saving for the f0.95. :)
     
  63. Their here:

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091505leica_50mm_f0_95.asp
     
  64. Vic - well said.
     

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