No more trust - proofs. What to do?

So a couple months ago I shot a wedding for a close friend of mine

for very little money. The deal we had worked out, was he would pay

me 200$ for all my shooting/processing time, and that included no

prints. Any prints they wanted, they would have to buy from me

seperately. They knew they would likely have to buy approx. 200$

worth of prints, give or take. This was done so they could get a

photographer at a low price, then pay more later when they could

afford more. I thought this was a great deal. The 200$ included two

photographers, and we both shot for about 7 hours.

 

So I gave them their proofs on CD which contained about 170 400x300

jpg. images. It took them over a month to finally contact me with

their first order, which was suprisingly tiny! They only wanted a few

photographs. Anyway, yesterday I stopped by their place to say hi

(we were all going to the movies) and I noticed a wedding album on

their table, and low and behold, it was a full album containing one

copy of just about every picture I supplied them on CD. probably

over 100 images. They were all 4x6.

 

I didn't get to take a real good look at them, but the quality of the

prints looked pretty decent. I didn't think a 400p x 300x image

could produce that nice of a print.

 

So I got the shaft, by a friend. What to do? Has anybody else ever

experienced this? Is this a good example of "why never to shoot a

friends wedding"? I would feel like a total jerk taking out the copy

of the contract they signed stating that I own all the images, and

all images must be purchased through me. I don't think I would do

that to a friend. It would only make things worse I think.

 

Opinions?

Watermark the digital proofs?

If you don't want to ruin your "friendship" then there isn't much you can do at this point.

In the future, make sure you watermark each image. Alternatively, use PS to create a PDF

presentation (and disable the print option).

 

Btw, you have learnt the hard way why most established wedding photographers ignore

the low end of the market.

One of the things that photographers loose sight of is what quality a client is happy with.

Often times a client will buy an image that would never pass muster here or on any other

photography forum. Sharpness, out of focus, color rendition aren't all that important to a

lot of people compared to how they 'feel' about the memories the image brings, regardless

of original or reproduction quality.

 

As digital reproduction quality increases, you'll need to move to making your money based

on upfront coverage fees.

 

If your 'friend' does this, you know what your clients are probably doing.

 

I would chalk this up as a learning experience and move on.

I think this is one that you can chalk up to a lesson learned. If you wanted $400 from them, perhaps you should have included a required order in your contract. You only required them to pay $200- not your anticipated $400.

 

Now a view from the other side...

We ended up actually "winning" photography for our wedding and were given proofs of the quality and size that you mentioned. They certainly are not decent enough for "quality" 4x6 prints- barely 3.5 x 5 but we fell into the same situation, we haven't even ordered prints yet (approaching our first anniversary). Our parents ordered a few- but we have been very happy with the small digital proofs we look at on our computer. We do have intentions to EVENTUALLY purchase the "master CD" of all proofs at full quality at a cost of around $1,000- when we have money of course. We were saving money for a 3 week honeymoon in Spain and now for the downpayment on a house. It's always in the back of our mind, but not on the tip of our wallet.

what do you mean friend?? I don't think these people are friends at all. If you were clear to them in the beginning then IMO they are totally out of line stealing your photos like this. Friends don't do this and I would definitely call them on it.

Good luck!

I think a watermark is the obvious solid solution. And normally I try to avoid the really bottom end jobs, but this was for a friend. Go figure.

William, I was afraid somebody would say that :) It was definitly clear up front. The entire point of doing it that way, was so they could save money up front. I would NEVER do something like this for a normal client. I get all my money up front. (a package that includes X number of prints for example), always enough so that I don't care or need them to order any "extra" prints.

 

But for a friend on a tight budget, this was a nice way to get some great images (two shooters too) withought having to buy prints right away, but he ended up stealing the other half.

Do it like this - on each and every CD image. Fiends are friends but business is business. The fastest way to loose your friends, or you business, is to mix the two<div></div>

I would still approach the friend and express your disappointment with him ripping you off. I wouldn't push the issue, but I would make sure the couple understood what they did was wrong.

 

Of course, I'm playing arm-chair wedding photographer right now... I guess I should say, I hope that's what I would do.

 

Best of luck.

Thanks for the replies everybody, I really appreciate it. I think part of the problem, is that they likely don't understand how or why printing their own copies is considered stealing. Not only that, but there is an entire wedding book, with crappy quality prints with my name on them. That to me, is far worse then the images being stolen.

awesome.. I have my watermark action/batch process all set to go in PS :|

Make up $200 worth of nice photos from that wedding, put them in an album, put it on YOUR coffee table. Then when they visit you, they'll realize their album is crappy. Then you can sell them your album for $200. Maybe.

<I>The deal we had worked out, was he would pay me 200$ for all my shooting/

processing time, and that included no prints... I thought this was a great deal. The 200$

included two photographers, and we both shot for about 7 hours.</I><P> So that is 14

hours of wedding photography for $200. Or another way of looking at it: They hired you

each for $14.29 per hour. Not including, of course, your digital image editing, processing

and

delivery times... or your gas to get there and back, etc. <P> And you really consider that a

good deal for you? <P>Panhandlers on a good street corner make more than that and

don't

have to spend thousands on a camera and a computer.

Chalk it up to experience ~ you gave them a wedding gift. Perhaps someday they will order those other prints, perhaps not. Charge full price if they do. People on low budgets shouldn't be expecting two photographers for 7 hours to begin with. Bringing the second photographer was a mistake!

This wasn't some guy that found me in the paper or was referred like normal business, this was a guy that I would consider a friend that I have known for about 10 years. The idea wasn't really to make a ton of money, more or less the reason we only charged him 200$ up front. The "Deal" was 100% for him, so that he didn't have to pay everythign right away, rather save up later to buy the prints.

 

Never again my friends :)

A CD of the images is almost the same as Negatives to some people (even lo res CD's). I NEVER give a CD unless it is part of a package OR as a separate sale. Same with negatives. For XX you get a package of XXX including a CD OR you get a lesser pkg. and buy the CD separately etc.

 

While I also do bargain shoots sometimes for close friends, I would never include negatives or a CD for that price.

I agree - never supply CD's unless it's a seperate sale. I began shooting weddings this past year and am amazed at how many photo's i've sold just by having a personal website, using PS to create my individual wedding gallerys such as this one:

 

http://essentialmomentsphotography.com/lhhmain/

 

This wedding, was my "Budget" package because 1) it was a small wedding and 2)I was close friends of their parents.

 

When you create such galleries, the bride and groom automatically spreads the web address to family and friends like wild flowers. Coulples that normally don't dress up that much wants their photos, parents wants cute pictures of their children etc...on and on. In addition to the lowe price of $800.00 to shoot the above referenced wedding, i've made an additional $1000.00 in photo sales. The mother of the bride bought a complete identical album, a grandmother bought $300 worth of sales of her grandchildren and several bridesmades purchased large orders of their moments with the brides etc...

 

Could this type of expose have been possible without a personal online gallery watermarked? I say no. Plus i make it very clear in my packages that the online photo's are consireded "Proofs" and the gallery remains active for 6 months. I can only say that it has worked wonderfully. So, just a bit of my experience to offer, i hope it helps for future shoots. Kindest Regards, Jammey Church

I think it was a inexpensive learning experience(200dls).

 

when there is money involve usually family and friends became rivals.

 

I think your business depends on alot of word of mouth so just look at it from a bright side: You help your friend,hopefully they referr you to more people and not have feelings of guilt or any other type of negative image of you.

 

think of as like you went to a very expensive photo semminar where they charged like 1500 dls for it but you only pay 200dsl.

 

hey maybe give them a better album so atleast if someone ask who did that? they proudly say Brandon did.

 

I ususally never do business with friends or family.Becuse you might not like that side of it of if, in the process one might feel unhappy about the trade and end up loosing more than money..

Thanks for the replies everybody. There wasn't a single high rez image on that disk. They were all 400x300 jpgs With the "save for web" jpg setting set to 50%. Obviously the prints they were able to squeeze out of them was good enough for their tastes. I think providing proofs on CD is still a fanstastic idea, as long as the watermark in included :) It's very fast, and very easy.

"Fiends are friends..."

 

Some of mine, too. They're more interesting than the vanilla folk.

 

That aside, IMO doing business with friends means mentally forgiving any real or emotional debts ahead of time. It doesn't do much for the bottom line but it greatly increases the tranquillity index.

In general, mixing friends/family with business is a really bad idea. The best take on this is one I read from Gary Gladstone a few years ago -- "It's full price or it's free." This gets around most of the issues, either by making it into a normal client relationship or turning the entire work into a gift.

Here is a old-fashioned tip: visit the newlyweds with a book of proof prints. See how well they like the images: when you depart, let them know you are expecting a call and you will promptly return with the proof prints so they can order what they want. [To provide unmarked proof prints or a CD with images in the 'computer' age is nuts.]

While we're on the subject, could someone give me information on how to use PS 6 to watermark an entire folder of images?

 

Thanks,Duane

If those are your friends, you might do better to hang out with your enemies. At least, they will stab you in front.