no image on film

Discussion in 'Black and White' started by sharon_hanson, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. I did post this question, or big problem of mine, recently but find no responses. Perhaps I'm not looking in right place? Anyway, recently decided to develop some negatives (120) and had some Arista developer, probably more than a year old but put in really cool place. Then used a new bottle of Ilford fix. My film is iso 50. So, I pre washed the film and the distilled water I'd used turned dark blue. So right off I thought I had probably washed off any images on the film. And yes, after agitating the developer for 6 minutes and fixing in the Ilford for 5 minutes, found that after washing the film--no images. The edges of the film were dark along the edges. Before I get into the next 10 rolls I need some advice. thanks Sharon
     
  2. mtk

    mtk

    Hi Sharon,
    1. Have you verified that your camera is working properly? Shutter opens and closes appropriately? Lens diaphragm opens and closes down properly?
    2.Why are you pre washing the film?
    3.I don't understand your statement of "Using some Arista developer that was a year old and then used a new bottle of Ilford" Did you mix the two? What dilution did you use?
    4. I would start with fresh new current chemicals before
     
  3. mtk

    mtk

    Sorry Sharon, I hit send to early....
    4. I would start with fresh new chemicals, shoot a test roll and develop it before you dive into the other ten rolls
    5. Have Fun!
    Mark
     
  4. SCL

    SCL

    Strong probability you didn't expose the film. When you say no images on the film, do you mean the film was clear or that it was black? If clear, you didn't expose it. If black, then something else going on.
     
  5. Nope PanF has that pretty blue when you pre wash.. that is not your problem Sounds like you need to test the developer but I think it may be bad. Were there any markings.. Lettering along the edge other than the slight dark you mentioned? What camera did you use? Any chance you left the lens cap on? To test the developer get an old piece of exposed but not developed 35mm film put it in a bowl and add developer. if it turns black you have good developer. If not then you found your problem. Also Could you have fixed first? It happens.
    Hold your camera up to a light with the back open set off the shutter. if you see light pop through then you know your shutter is working. Last thing.... Was there enough light to take pictures wit. ISO 50 is pretty slow and if you were using it in a Holga or anything like that I can tell you unless you were in super bright sun what you see could have happened.... I most likely forgot something but others can fill in my blanks.
     
  6. I see others were answering as I was typing. :)
     
  7. Mark -- sorry, the Ilford was my fix. I didn't add that in my statement. Was told one should pre wash film and I did with distilled water for 2 minutes. I saved the water for the next batch too. Of course after seeing the water so dark continued on but was worried. I don't know if the Arista dev (mixed 1 to 9) was bad or if one should not mix the brands of dev and fix. The Ilford fix was mixed at 1 to 4. I will go buy some new Ilford dev for the next batch but the water turned dark before I even started with the developer.
     
  8. 1. The anti halation dye is what comes off in the pre wash and turns the water blue. If you did not pre wash the developer would turn blue.
    2. Look at the piece of film you processed. If the edge markings are clearly readable then there is a problem with your camera. If the edge markings are faint to non existent then the developer is bad. The edge markings are the film type on one edge and frame numbering on the other.
    3. My bet is on the developer having gone bad.
     
  9. thanks all. My camera if a Mamiya 645 and I've used it a few years. Never had a problem developing before. And yes, the film came out clear. No printing on the edges of the film--just dark blue. I'm going to dump the Arista and buy a new Ilford developer. Should I not be pre washing? Does distilled water make a difference? thanks. Sharon
     
  10. Fixer is fixer brand does not matter. If it cleared your fixer is fine... try the test I gave you above first. I have had Arista/tmax developer last a long time in a partially used bottle but 6 months is the exp date from opening it.
     
  11. I prewash all my 120 and larger films... Never had a problem.
     
  12. thank you Charles. I've never seen the pre wash dark blue. I've always poured the pre wash down the drain and never noticed the hue. this is the first time I've saved it. Also--i'm now wondering if I poured the developer solution into the fix bottle (and vice versa). Ow!
    I'm starting over. Thank you everyone!
     
  13. SCL

    SCL

    First time I prewashed a film which turned the water blue I panicked, but then found out it was normal for that film.
     
  14. 1. When you pre-soak your film, you wash off the dye on the back of the film. The water will be dark blue, purple or green, depending on the film you use. This is normal. The same thing does not happen to developer as the PH is different. Try this to see for yourself: pre-soak the film and pour the water (now colored) into a cup when done. Develop the film and pour the used developer into the cup of colored pre-soak solution, the dye will pretty much disappear.
    2. The developer could be bad.
    3. You could have made the mistake of adding the fix before the developer. This results in clear negatives. Trust me on this one--I know from experience.
    4. I don't use distilled water for a pre-soak, but I have very good city water. How is your water supply?
     
  15. I agitate at the end of the prewash as the dissolved dyes settle to the bottom of the tank.
    I stand corrected on the dyes turning the developer bark blue. I have had the developer turned pale yellow by dyes when a pre wash was not used. I have also had fixer turn light magenta when a pre wash was not used with T grain films.
    Arista liquid concentrate developer is made by/the same as
    http://www.claytonchem.com/ developers
    My biggest complaint is they do not provide enough information about their product such as,
    What is the shelf life in unopened bottles?
    What is the shelf life of partial bottles?
    What is the shelf life of working solutions?
    What is the minimum amount of developer per 80 square inches of film?
    Does one assume the replenishment amount listed commercial processing machines is the minimum in all tank/usage situations?
    Is this information omitted to cut label printing costs?
     
  16. If you use Diafine you will find many colors in solution A but they don't seem to affect the solution. Foma film has the prettiest color. :) I have some microfilm that turns it all pink.. seems to be normal an hour later..
    Many of the Arista chemicals are now made by the same company that bought the Kidak chemical plant and patents. So as to not confuse people some are sold under the Legacy pro brand and others under the Arista brand. Many of the liquid developers are made by Clayton. Not all of them.
    The Arista that you dilute 1-9 is a clone of the Tmax developer.
     
  17. Whether or not you use distilled water in this case does not matter. In fact, it doesn't really matter at all unless you're using a weak developer dilution. Hard or 'dirty' water can cause extra specks on your negs and a slight loss in speed, but not nearly enough to make your negs go blank. It's very apparent if you use something like Rodinal 1+100, but I wouldn't even bother for D76 or similar.
    Larry is also correct that fixer brand is generally irrelevant. The only time it matters is if it is poor quality fixer, or if you are using a developer that prefers an alkaline fixer, such as the various Pyro developers.
     
  18. Pre-soaking the film, as I do, in distilled water doesn't disturb the latent image. And yes, if it leaches a lot of that anti-halation dye away that can't be a bad thing. Dump that water and don't reuse it, though.
     
  19. I have a 2/3 used bottle of Clayton F76+ (Arista Premium Liquid) developer that was opened over 9 months ago. It is still working great.
    1 year may be too long though.
     
  20. If the film is completely clear with even no edge markings, then my theory is that it was never developed and fixer just washed off everthing on it. So I would blame the developer.
     
  21. ... or it was fixed before developing.
     

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