NikonD2x price drop?

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by raymondc, Feb 26, 2005.

  1. I just read somewhere else that a few stores selling at $4699 and B+H
    is at $4995? That seems those who wanted a D2hs at 8MP is not
    getting too bad a deal with the D2x. Not bad price compared to a pro
    8MP body the 1D.

    Just FYI. but obviously I cannot afford it.
     
  2. who is at 4699.? and do they have any?
     
  3. I don't know as I am not in need of a D2x and I am not in the US.

    Hint: stroll over to Nikonian ..(and you will be answered).
     
  4. Here is the the 4,699.97 price. The best price so far and a really nice retailer.

    http://www.robertsimaging.com/cmItemDetail.jsp?pid=6410
     
  5. I can get it here in Montreal for a little under $4,600. Perfectly legit. And I've been told the
    price WILL drop sooner or later in the near future. Just be patient. I know I will be.
     
  6. David,

    I spoke to a sales rep at a very reputable Nikon dealer in NYC. He offered me the D2X for $4500 but the wait is at least 2-3 months. I wouldn't be surprised if this sells for less than $4000 by Christmas.
     
  7. Wow. That's great the price is dropping already... maybe Nikon wants to take a bite out of
    1DmkII sales. I have been to Robert's in Indianapolis (although that was back when I lived
    in Indiana... 5 years ago). They are legit. I wouldn't think they would do anything shady
    like selling grey market goods, or selling the battery charger separately for $500. They
    have always been popular with the local photojournalism crowd.
     
  8. "He offered me the D2X for $4500 but the wait is at least 2-3 months"

    The guy's a smart speculator.
     
  9. on pure spec, I would buy the 1d mark2 over the d2x even if they
    were the same price.
     
  10. And why is that, Leslie? Number of MP alone? I assume not, since that would be pretty naive.
     
  11. $4999 is the MSRP. MSRP =Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price.

    No dealer has to sell it atthat price. if they were willing to take a substantial loss a legit
    dealer could sell it for a $1.99.
     
  12. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Similar to but not exactly as what Leslie says, for my needs, I would rather have an 8MP, 8fps DSLR over a 12MP, 5fps DSLR, and performance at ISO 800 would be a factor. I need a fast frame rate because of wildlife action photography where I notice the difference between 5fps and 8fps. I sometimes need higher ISO for the occasional indoor, existing light work. I also shoot landscape where more pixels help, but I don't think 8 vs. 12MP will make that big of a difference.

    Cost aside, what is "better" highly depends on your individual needs and what you shoot. Since I shoot too many different subjects, it is hard to have a "one size fits all" DSLR. Your needs will likely be different.

    If you can wait, I am sure that they can sell you a brand new D2X for, say, $2500 if you can wait a long while until after the D3X is announced. :)
     
  13. It's funny you should say you need the 8fps of the 1d mkII b/c the d2x has that in crop mode. A "feature" most sportsjournalists would love turning their 70-200 lenses into 140-400. and their 400's into 800's!!
     
  14. I like Nikon a lot, as a company and as a camera manufacturer but...

    this crop things sounds really stupid to me. Soon the buffers will be big enough to deal with 12mb at 8 frames per sec. ie, 96mb per second. Then the crop mode is silly.

    I can crop my D70 images so that my 50mm becomes a 500mm.

    I think Nikon should have of invested in a buffer big enough to deal with 96mb's per second, then release the D2X.

    r
     
  15. The D2X here will sell for 5600-5700$ CAD, that's 4520-4600$ USD.
     
  16. " . . . this crop things sounds really stupid to me. Soon the buffers will be big enough to deal with 12mb at 8 frames per sec. ie, 96mb per second. Then the crop mode is silly."

    A pretty good explanation of the benefits of the HSC feature was put forth by Ilkka Nissila in another thread. I can't improve on what he said:

    "The point of the crop is that since data transfer speeds limit digital cameras at this point, you can shoot at 8 fps (7MP) with the same camera you can also shoot at 12 MP, although a little slower. No other camera can do this. The 1D can do 8 fps at 8 MP but it can't do 12 MP and the pixel density of the D2X is MUCH higher, allowing better quality if you don't have a long enough lens to get a frame-filling shot at the 1.3x crop factor of the Canon. The second thing is that you get the rangefinder-like ability to predict motion from the outside of the frame since you can see a larger image than will be cropped."

    In my mind, these are clear advantages for someone shooting any kind of high-speed sports and action. Also, what may or may not be available in the future is irrelevant; the point is what can be done now. Many things will be different and improved upon in the future.

    "I can crop my D70 images so that my 50mm becomes a 500mm."

    That's a truly bizarre statement. Of course you can crop your D70 images so that your 50 becomes a 500. But it would be what . . . a half-a-megapixel image file? The D2X's HSC feature is cropping to a near-7mp image. Another benefit is that this can be done in-camera, literally with the push of a button.

    Rick Rickman, one of the most widely published living sports photographers, as well as a Pulitzer prize winner, loves this feature and details why in his hands-on field report at sportsshooter.com.

    And the bottom line is this: Are not more choices a good thing? Yes, I think they are. And that's far from either stupid or silly!
     
  17. “Also, what may or may not be available in the future is irrelevant...” --Jeffrey Moore

    Even if a crop mode is not a specific feature on later cameras it will be available by simply shooting a little loose. It’s been available to 4x5” & 9x12cm shooters for decades. If an image is sharp and grainless or noiseless or nearly so one can crop as desired. For 35mm film some cropping has been available and much more for 6x6, 6x7 and 6x9cm. Don’t fear this feature going away if you like it.

    "I can crop my D70 images so that my 50mm becomes a 500mm." --Rob Malkin

    Well I can and have cropped my FE2, Tri-X, 15/5.6 WA images to 105mm. Sure it looks like hell but... OK, actually I was making a demonstration to show that perspective does not change with focal length but rather with lens to subject distance.

    I was once hired just to take light readings on a shoot because I knew the zone system. The photographer didn’t like the convergence caused by tipping his 50mm lens down. I asked how large his photo would run. It was two columns on a three column, 8.5x11” page so I suggested shooting with a 24/2.8 and holding the camera back perpendicular to the ground. When I printed the film I cropped a half frame from the 35mm image on Tri-X and printed a 5x7. The effect is much like dropping the lens on a view camera and the customer was very pleased. This trick should work well with the D2X if one has a wide enough lenses (17~18mm).

    Again don’t fear, if this feature turns out to be useful to you, with low noise digital images it will not go away.

    Regards,

    Dave Hartman.

    Why doesn’t Nikon offer $2,000.00 Cash Back and 0% Financing for 60 Months??

    Until that happens can someone spare 50,000 dimes?
     
  18. I don't know how many times this has to be said, but the PRIMARY POINT of the "High-speed Crop" mode is that it gives the user of the D2X the ability to choose between 12.2mp @5fps or 6.8mp @8fps within the same camera. Higher speed! Higher speed! Higher speed!!!!!

    Of course one has always had the ability to crop with 6x6, 6x7, or whatever format. I also shoot 4x5 and can crop the hell out of this size format. None of this is relevant in the discussion with respect to the D2X's "high-speed crop" feature.
     
  19. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Jeffrey, if I want high speed, I would rather have a dedicated 8MP, 8fpd DSLR such as the EOS 1D Mark 2. At least to me, one of the major incentive to get a D2H or D2X (or F6 if you prefer film) is having 11 AF points; in particular, there are AF points outside of the horizontal and vertical lines in the middle of the frame.

    The D2X's crop mode can be useful for occasional high-speed shots. However, in that mode, the image inside the viewfinder becomes even smaller and you lose most of the 11 AF points because they are either outside or too close to the edge of the cropped frame. Practically you are left with only 1 AF point in the center and in a way back to the F4, N8008 and N90 era.
     
  20. Shun, the other primary point about the HSC mode is that it gives you choices. Yes, you can shoot 8mp/8fps with the 1D MkII, but you can't shoot 12.2mp with it. With the D2X you can do both; there is currently no other camera that offers this choice. And once you program the FUNC button properly, you can literally make the switch between 12.2mp/5fps or 6.8mp/8fps by pressing a single button and never taking your eye from the viewfinder. Choice is a good thing! By the way, I have now read a few hands-on reports, and the people that actually have the camera love this feature. One example can be found on this very forum. Check out Paul Sokal's post here: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00BLF1

    One other point Shun. You're completely wrong with respect to the AF points in HSC mode. Nine of the eleven AF points are still active in HSC mode (see page 41 of the user's manual). Moreover, they are nicely distributed within the HSC frame.
     
  21. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Jeffrey, ideally, my choice would be an 8MP, 8fps DSLR, and I was hoping that the D2Hs would be the answer, but unfortunately Nikon has no such product at this point. And if you really think that in HSC mode, the 8 outside AF points are nicely positioned, I would say you are entitled to your opinions. IMO those are so close to the edge that they are next to useless in the HSC mode although they are nicely positioned in the regular non-crop mode. Unfortunately, you cannot have it both ways.
     
  22. Shun, one last question regarding the HSC feature on the D2X and I'll end this: If the camera was identical in every respect, with the one exception that it did not have the HSC feature, would it be a better camera or a lesser camera, in your view?

    More choices are better. I rest my case.
     
  23. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    More choices are better if the choices are useful to you. If the additional choices are not useful to you, you might be better off without them as they could lead to errors. Therefore, the answer is it depends, as usual.

    Maybe those who actually have a D2X can help answer this question. When you are using the crop mode, how clear is it in the viewfinder? I would imagine that the cropped frame is highlighted so that it is not easy to make such a mistake. However, when you are in a hurry, is it possible to be in the crop mode unintentionally such that while you think you are shooting images in the entire DX frame, you are actually getting cropped images so that you may miss/ruin some important shots?

    Hopefully we won't hear a lot of this type of complaints in the future. Those who have used Leica rangefinders with interchangable lenses should be familiar with it. When you have a telephoto lens on, the viewfinder coverage doesn't change but you get a smaller frame in the center of the viewfinder to indicate the actual coverage.
     
  24. there are already D2X scams on craigslist, $2900 for a "spare" camera ordered by a "photojournalist" who replies with:

    "Dear sir,
    I am from UK.
    This item cost 2900$ and including shipping and all delivery.
    please reply me urgently.
    Thanks!!!"

    http://www.craigslist.org/pen/ele/62092506.html
     
  25. You know Shun, sometimes people take a position in an argument/discussion and no amount of evidence or reason or logic can budge them off their original position. Nothing personal here, and with all due respect, but this seems to be the case here.

    "More choices are better if the choices are useful to you. If the additional choices are not useful to you, you might be better off without them as they could lead to errors." --Shun

    That's like saying we'd be better off if we were never given the choice between shooting in either aperture-preferred or shutter-preferred mode. Because that certainly is an error that can be more easily committed than to accidentally shoot in HSC mode.

    You will have to admit that the feature under discussion here (HSC) is at least useful to some of those who will be using this camera. You will admit that, won't you? And if you admit that, then having the HSC feature has to be a good thing. Because, if for some reason you think it is of no benefit to you, you have the choice to NOT USE the feature. You never even have to program the FUNC button to enable HSC mode; you never have to enable HSC via the menus. That eliminates even the possiblity of committing the potential error you mention.

    As far as leading to errors, there are any number of potential errors to be committed with any modern camera: incorrect ISO setting; incorrect white balance; accidently leaving your self-timer on; leaving NR on when you don't need it; shooting in the incorrect AF mode; using incorrect metering mode. The possible errors are infinite. And I submit that all these potential errors are far more easily committed than than accidentally shooting in HSC mode. The user has to take an action to go into HSC mode. And when in HSC mode, the HSC indicator in the viewfinder blinks. It BLINKS for Pete's sake. It would take a significant level of incompetence to: 1) accidentally shift into HSC mode; and, 2) be unaware of the fact that you are in HSC mode.

    Personally, give me more choices every time. I trust my ability to figure it out.

    "Maybe those who actually have a D2X can help answer this question." --Shun

    Well, they already are answering it. In practically every review that has been posted to this point, as well as other posts by people who are beginning to share their experiences in this forum (Paul Sokal, e.g.) and others (Rick Rickman on sportsshooters.com), the comments about HSC have all been positive; all of them, 100%. I have yet to read a single negative comment about HSC by someone who actually has the camera, not one. In fact, most are raving about this feature.

    Admittedly, at this early stage we are talking about a relatively small number of users that actually have the camera. But so far Shun, on this disussion, I'm batting a thousand.
     
  26. It is well documented that Shun is not in favor of choices that he does not need, as was demonstrated by discussions surrounding the lack of aperture ring on G lenses.

    The most fatal mistake I've made on a modern Nikon was leaving the focussing in S mode, and hence missing some critical shots because the camera would not fire.

    There are so many pitfalls on a modern camera that I don't think the HSC option will make matters any worse.

    I, for one, would exchange a tooth for a D2X, with or without HSC.
     
  27. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Jeffrey, my question is not whether HSC is useful, which I am sure it is for certainly people. In fact, if I had a D2X myself, I may use the HSC mode occasionally. However, my question is whether it is easy to accidentally shoot in that mode unintentionally, especially if one tries to switch back and forth. It'll probably take a little while to determine it; there simply are not enough D2X's out there for long enough yet.

    Otherwise, let's move on to more useful topics.
     
  28. "However, my question is whether it is easy to accidentally shoot in that mode unintentionally . . . " --Shun

    As I stated in a previous post, the HSC indicator blinks in the viewfinder any time you are in HSC mode. It's difficult to make it more idiot proof than that.

    But, you're right, we've about beat this topic to death. Time to move on.
     

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