ShunCheung Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Received my Z6 with the 24-70mm/f4 S lens and the FTZ adapter yesterday. I haven't used the camera much yet. This is the first mirrorless digital camera I own myself, although I have tested samples of the Nikon J1 and some Olympus 4/3 a few years ago. My initial impression is the same as when I used the Z7 for a short while back in September during Nikon's launch event. The EVF is very nice, much better than those I saw on Sony and Fuji mirrorless from 3, 4 years ago. I am sure the other brands have improved also. It is too early to draw any conclusions, but I use to prefer optical viewfinders, by far, but that is not necessarily the case any more. The Z6 body (identical to the Z7) is too small for my taste. The camera and grip is too short so that there is nothing for the bottom of my right palm to hold onto. Maybe if I get an L plate it may become better. I don't think I am interested in a vertical grip. I repeated an experiment I saw on DPReview forums, but I used the LCD instead of the EVF. I used an iPad Mini as a stop watch, and the delay from the iPad to the image on the LCD is about 0.04 second, 02:35:45 on the iPad and 02:35:41 on the camera LCD. Also notice that the sensor plane is fairly close to the lens mount with plenty of electronics behind the sensor inside the camera. On a DSLR, the sensor is close to the rear panel. Obviously there is the mirrorbox in front, but there isn't much electronics behind a DSLR sensor except for the rear LCD screen. At the 24mm setting, the 24-70mm/f4 S' rear element is very close to the mount. Clearly Nikon's new lens design is taking full advantage of the absence of the mirror among wide-angle lenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Have you tried anything with the FTZ yet? I wonder how the 'small' grip feels etc with something like the 70-200mm VRII? How's the depth of the grip, ie getting your digits between the grip and lens body? Looks a bit narrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB_Gallery Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 So far I am impressed, just a couple little things to customize on my end in terms of handling but for what I need this for, super quiet shooting and a light and small one lens ski rig, it is pretty much perfect. My handling niggles are lack of texture on some of the buttons to differentiate them from the others on what is a much smaller handling platform and a rather slippery surface on the lens near where the lens mounts. Specifically I added some grey Griptac on the barrel of the 24-70 near the rear for ease of handling, I use it a lot on camera gear to aide in this. I also used it to add texture to the exposure compensation button and the + zoom button on the body it self. I think the exposure compensation button is in a poor spot, too hard to find it and it really hangs out too far to the tight of the shutter button. I find my self using the + zoom button a lot for focus confirmation and image review so that one also has Griptac added. Now the buttons are much easier to find and use without taking my eye off the VF. The Z cameras will never replace a DLSR for me, just add to a great collection of tools that make it easier to do my job and get more creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB_Gallery Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Have you tried anything with the FTZ yet? I wonder how the 'small' grip feels etc with something like the 70-200mm VRII? How's the depth of the grip, ie getting your digits between the grip and lens body? Looks a bit narrow? I'll bite.... I have not tried it with all my Nikon F mount glass but have with the following, 20mm 1.8, 24mm 1.8, 50mm 1.8, 50mm F2 Milvus, 85mm 1.8, 105mm 1.4 & 70-200 2.8 FL with and without the converter. Most handled pretty well although it does feel a bit odd to have the focus rings that far from the body, takes getting used to in the vertical shooting position. The 70-200 is decent but could be improved with a vertical grip. Larger lenses like a 200-500 are going to just feel out of whack with this body and no grip. I suppose my ideal Z would be a "Z8" with 24MP, clean ISO 50K and a grip attached size that would be somewhere between the Z6 and a D5. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 Since I literally received the Z6 on Tuesday night (last night), please give me some time to get familiar with the camera. I would much rather not make premature comments. I tried my Sigma 35mm/f1.4 Art (F mount) briefly, via the FTZ. That lens AF just fine. That is the only non-Nikon F-mount lens I own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 Over the US Thanksgiving, my wife and I spent a day and half at the Merced National Wildlife Refuge in the Central Valley of California. I bought the Z6 and a couple more Nikon DSLRs with me. So far I really like the Z6. Once again the EVF is so good now that I no longer prefer the optical viewfinder. The EVF delay is negligible, but that has already been the case among other brands for several years; the quality of the EVF is simply much better than that from the early days of mirrorless several years ago. I haven't done much birds in flight with the Z6, but I feel that its AF speed is not in the same league as the D500, not to mention the D5, of course. And a lot of early Z7 and Z6 adapters have pointed out the same. As usual, I captured everything NEF only, and then I realized that I could not open those Z6 RAW files in LightRoom or PhotoShop. Fortunately, Adobe has a beta version of its DNG Converter that can covert Z6 NEF files: DNG Converter (11.1) Beta with preliminary camera support for various models | Photoshop Family Customer Community Sunset with Z6 and 24-70mm/f4 S lens at 43mm, f8, 1/60 sec and base ISO 100 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSpeaker Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Once again the EVF is so good now that I no longer prefer the optical viewfinder. Curious does the display on the EVF match the one on the rear LCD? On the Z7 I was unable to get rid of the superimposed shutter and aperture display on the bottom of the LCD. It is however displayed along the bottom of the EVF with a black bar so you see the whole picture. This seems trivial but in my experience having icons superimposed over the LCD means you can't see home of what your photographing forcing you to move to the EVF where you CAN see the whole picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) I believe Chris is referring to the settings displayed in the live view, on the rear LCD. You have the AF, metering white balancing ... settings across the top and the exposure settings across the bottom. I checked my D500, and those exposure settings are on a black strip below the live view image, the same way the Z6's EVF displays them. However, in the live view mode on the Z6 (and apparently the Z7), those settings are superimposed onto the live view image, obscuring the edges of the image. To me, it is not a big deal. Apparently Nikon is trying to maximize the image on the rear LCD. However, if this feature annoys you, sorry I haven't figured out a setting to turn settings off in live view or choose to display it differently. I checked the custom settings, but these Z mirrorless cameras are still very new to me. I am sure that I'll gradually discover various features. My former local store Keeble and Shuchat used to host classes on these cameras and invite instructors from Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. But unfortunately they went out of business two years ago. Hopefully more training videos will be available after the Z bodies are on the market for a little while. Edited November 24, 2018 by ShunCheung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter Schaefer Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 However, if this feature annoys you, sorry I haven't figured out a setting to turn settings off in live view or choose to display it differently. There isn't a setting to turn them all off on the back LCD. Apparently Nikon is trying to maximize the image on the rear LCD. Indeed, the back LCD has a 3:2 aspect ratio (rather than 4:3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 For comparison, this is the rear LCD on a D500 in live view mode. The AF, white balancing, image area, etc. info is also across the top, superimposed onto the live view image. However, the exposure info is on a black stripe below the image, while the GPS and airplane mode icons are still on top of the image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 I should point out that on the Z6, and presumably Z7, if you keep on pressing the DISP button (to the right of the viewfinder) you can turn on/off the AF mode, white balancing ... display across the top, the live view histogram, as well as the virtual horizon. However, there doesn't seem to be a way to turn off the exposure info across the bottom. That is the one feature which bothers Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter Schaefer Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 On the Sony A7 Series bodies (at least the ones I know), the info on the rear LCD is displayed quite similar to what's shown in the image of the D500 above. There is no mode that shows an entirely blank screen - at the minimum shutter speed, aperture, exposure compensation and ISO are displayed. In contrast to the Z6/Z7 though, that information is on the lower black bar (like in the D500 image above) and not superimposed on the image. Most of the time, I have the virtual horizon superimposed onto the image; the full information screen is the one I never use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSpeaker Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 However, there doesn't seem to be a way to turn off the exposure info across the bottom. That is the one feature which bothers Chris. Exactly. Would be nice if Nikon could add this functionality in a future firmware update to the display button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB_Gallery Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Interesting day with the Z6. I had a job on the slopes today and knew visibility could be limited so I just brought the 24-70 S and a 50mm 1.8G on the FTZ adapter. I also brought two Z6 batteries and two D850 batteries to cover me. All in all I was really happy with the AF in action mode, even with some super close fast passes it only started to fall behind at the very closest ranges, skiers about 2-4 feet away doing 20-30MPH when in wide angle mode. But after lunch things got pretty interesting. A serious howler of a blizzard blew in, 30-40MPH winds and lots of blowing snow. So for several laps I skied with patrollers during last sweep and had the camera out fully exposed to the elements. Three things struck me as challenges right away. One was that it was nearly impossible for me to get my ski glove in-between the grip and the lens to hit the two function buttons, never an issue on my 850 and now sold 750. Two was that I discovered snow had covered the eye sensor ( auto switching mode ) and the back display would no longer turn on unless I cleared it. And finally, the tolerances on the rear command dial are pretty tight, snow had gotten in-between it and the camera body and froze it in place. I have had that happen with those dials on other Nikon bodies before but not quite to this degree. This is pretty much as nasty a condition as my cameras take so it was a good test and early real world evaluation for me and I will know what to look out for in going forward. The battery did pretty darn good by the way, about 200 shots in for the day, some moving images to my phone for my clients and it was only down one bar. I love this new platform, can’t wait to take it to work again tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 For that kinda nasty weather you gotta be thinking waterproof housing. Getting a dial frozen up.... and then thawing, the chances of water ingress is pretty high. I had similar awful trouble with the eye sensor in the V1...! You're never going to get a physically much smaller camera have a wide enough grip-gap to get ski mitts in. That's a very big ask! it only started to fall behind at the very closest ranges, skiers about 2-4 feet away doing 20-30MPH when in wide angle mode. I'd call that a big AF challenge...:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB_Gallery Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 It’s al part of the job. I will use smaller gloves when actually shooting, keep the eye sensor clear and live with the stuck dial now and then. Decades of shooting Nikon bodies in snowstorms has never seen water ingress, housings are not a practical option in my experience. It’s 10 degrees out now, look forward to seeing how it does with colder weather.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Vongries Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 It’s 10 degrees out now, look forward to seeing how it does with colder weather.... I always hate the "re acclimation" process bringing cameras in from the cold - do you use the standard plastic bag trick or in camera case in stages of temperature, or...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 If I need to photograph in such harsh conditions, such as snow on the camera, I would use a D5 or D850, or an older model from those series if the current models are too expensive. I don’t think the Z6 and Z7 are designed for such rough conditions. And they are way too small if you have gloves on, especially the controls are small. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB_Gallery Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 I always hate the "re acclimation" process bringing cameras in from the cold - do you use the standard plastic bag trick or in camera case in stages of temperature, or...? I keep dry bags used for raft trips in my camper and just put the whole pack in it and keep it there until a few hours at home. I will pull the cards and battery out before hand so I can start my download and backup, charge the batteries. So far the Z6 is proving to be an excellent ski rig, started the morning at 8 degrees, taking a break now for lunch and it is 24 and the battery is at 2/3rd full. I guess I don’t chimp much, seeing the results live in the VF. My 850 will see a lot of action still but I bet this camera sees more on the slopes, 12FPS is outstanding. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 The Z7 apparently has similar weather sealing as the D850, but of course it’s a first generation device so there may be glitches. Teardown of the Nikon Z7 Mirrorless Camera ”This is not marketing department weather resistance. This is engineering department weather resistance. Anything that can be sealed has been sealed. I’m impressed, and I will say for future cut-and-paste blurbs: this is as robustly weather sealed a camera as we’ve ever disassembled.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 How well does the stabilization work with the Sigma 35mm via the FTZ, ie not a native Nikon lens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) So far we have some "spin off" threads on the FTZ adapter, etc. One comment I have read elsewhere is that the new Z (forget 6 or 7) cannot work with some old EN-EL15 batteries. My Z6 comes with a new EN-EL15b, but my various older EN-EL15 work just fine with the Z6. I have exchanged most of my old EN-EL15 batteries with the newer Li-ion 20 type in 2016 when I got my D500, but I hit the limit for exchanging at most 5 batteries so that I still have one EN-EL15, Li-ion 01 type from year 2010 when I bought my D7000. That old battery works just fine on the Z6, but I didn't use it for very long so that I am not sure how long it would last. The D7000, introduced in 2010, is the very first Nikon body that uses EN-EL15 batteries. And yes, the EN-EL15b battery works on older DSLRs that use the EN-EL15. Edited November 27, 2018 by ShunCheung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 various older EN-EL15 work just fine with the D6 Have Nikon given you a pre release camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 Have Nikon given you a pre release camera? The D6 is what I want. ;) I'll fix the typo earlier. I have been typing Dnnn cameras for over 15 years and the F mount for much longer. It is hard to change the habit to Z cameras and the Z mount. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 The D6 is what I want. ;) I'll fix the typo earlier. I have been typing Dnnn cameras for over 15 years and the F mount for much longer. It is hard to change the habit to Z cameras and the Z mount. I think I go for the D7. I like odd number rather than even number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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