Nikon Introduces the D4 and 85mm/f1.8 G AF-S

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by shuncheung, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Suprise? Not. I suppose most of the information has already been leaked.
    Nikon announces the D4, their new flag-ship sports/news/action DSLR with a 16MP sensor and similar high-ISO capabilities as the D3S. For still-image capture, there are a lot of minor improvements but nothing really ground breaking. However, the video capability has advanced a lot. The suggested price in the US is $6000.
    Additionally, there is a new 85mm/f1.8 G AF-S lens at $500, essentially the "economy" version of the expensive 85mm/f1.4 G AF-S, which is around $1700. There is no VR on both of these lenses.
    We have written a preview based on advanced information from Nikon, but the link may take a little while to become active, so please be patient: http://www.photo.net/equipment/nikon/D4/preview/
     
  2. This will make many people very happy!
     
  3. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

  4. Shun...... How long have you known?? :)
     
  5. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Rene, I always knew that there would be a D4 before the London Olympics. I guess it was supposed to be announced in the summer/fall of 2011 but was delayed by the Japan earthquake and tsunami. By the same token, you can count on a D5 in 2015/2016 before the Rio De Janerio summer Olympics. I have made those comments many times on this forum in the last year, and I always adviced those who wanted a D3S in the last year to consider the release of a D4 in the near future. But as it turns out, I don't think the D4 is that much more advanced than the D3S in terms of still-image capbility. (Please keep in mind that I have never seen an actual D4.) So if you mainly care about shooting stills, the D3S is perfectly fine.
    Video is a different story, but plenty of people don't care about capturing video on DSLRs.
     
  6. I read your article and I think the same way you do. The D3's seems to be just fine. I was trying the video option on the V1 and I really don't like it. I prefer using a video cam.
    I found it strange they didn't announce a D400.....
    Here it says that the D4 will be on sale on Feb. the 16th. I think that is really fast compare to Canon.
    And the price 648,000 Yen
     
  7. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    We received this image from Nikon:
    • The D4 takes one CF memory card and one XQD memory card; the latter is a new standard but is not yet available.
    • Notice that there is no AE-L/AF-L button
    • There is also no matrix, center-weighted, and spot meter switch.
    • Instead, there are two "joy sticks" that are apparently programmable.
    [​IMG]
    Again, Nikon owns the image copyright. I am using it here since it is a news photo.
     
  8. In-camera HDR (High Dynamic Range): Can merge two images with 3-stop differential inside the camera.
    Could the D3 do that Shun? Have to say I am pretty pumped up about the new 85mm :)
     
  9. These cameras make a lot more sense at $6000.00 than a Leica M9 at the same price. The D4 will burn through it life cycle of a million or so shots in a few years and the technology will be totally obsolete by then anyway. The M9 will also be hopelessly obsolete in a few years but the proud Leica owners still see the cameras as lifetime investments that can be kept fine tuned by craftsmen for twenty five years.
     
  10. Looks like a nice piece of equipment. But for my use, I think a D3S will be more than enough now - and my wallet (and wife) will be happy! ;)
     
  11. As a digital photographer and Nikon user, I feel happy about this new camera, even more considering the impact that the Sendai plant suffered. I still remember that although Nikon was facing serious problems they donated some good money to the Red Cross. This is the kind of company that I admire and follow. Congratulations to Nikon. and of course I'd like to have a D4 but my budget is not collaborating for now.
     
  12. Just in time for the D4 announcement, Sony announces the first XQD card: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/sony-unveils-new-high-speed-xqd-memory-cards-136787368.html
    The D4 appears to be a nice evolutionary step from the D3S - maybe it should be called D3Ss instead?
     
  13. Did anyone else notice that 11 AF points can autofocus with f/8 lenses?
     
  14. While this may seem like a marginal upgrade to the D3S, there are some substantial improvements that I didn't see listed in Shun's Preview (If I missed them, sorry)
    In particular, for sports shooters:
    • 11 FPS at full resolution - Marginal Increase from 9 FPS, but hella fast.
    • Buffer capable of handling 100 RAW Images or 200 JPEGs when using the new XQD Card - WOW!
    For everyone else, I know it's only one stop more low light, but the marginal increase will, hopefully, trickle down giving us very clean ISO 3200 and maybe even 6400 images. Additionally, the AF system has a sensitivity of -2 EV, which translated to (hopefully) accurate AF under moonlight.
    I'm more interested in the new Processor and Metering system. I really can't comment until I get to hold one and play with it - which won't be until it's released in February.
    Huge Leap? No. Better all around sports camera - Definitely.
    All I have to say is that it's got a lot of what I was hoping for in the D3S replacement and it will likely be my next camera.
    RS
     
  15. Based on Amazon's pricing, it's cheaper than the D3X. The only thing the D3X has over the D4 is pixel count, and not by very much, either. Just an observation.
    I like the 85/1.8. The 85/1.4 is quite unnecessary. What, an extra $1,000 for half a stop? Really? But hey, your money, your choice.
    Personally I'm more excited by the alleged specifications of the D800. For me, resolution is more important than shutter speed.
    The video is nice, for sure, and TV productions will use it (as well as the 1DX). I don't doubt it (and they'll look at the horrible H.264 output of the 5D2 and wonder why the heck they used that thing). However, for cinema, 4K is the future and it started last year. Different tools for different industries. But for an HD camera, the D4 could be best-of-class.
     
  16. Here is Joe McNally's real world test. He was even the first to drop one and it kept working :)
     
  17. In Norway, the price of the D4 is set to 49,000 NOK, which is approx 8,200 USD. This is about one third over the D3S price and approx 10% lower than the D3X price. You US guys do not know how lucky you are with the Nikon pricing......
     
  18. I've been following the rumour sites on the D4 (although I do find them very annoying since they get over-run by brand/flame wars and infantile squabbling) so the specs are pretty much as expected.
    For my particular situation (catwalk fashion - see http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00ZhIg for example) the D4 is ideal mainly due to the increased pixel count - for most situations my D3s is superb, but for long catwalks it will just give me more cropping options and means I don't have to use a 200-400mm lens but can stick to my trusty 70-200 which I get on with much better. I happened to have a good trading year for my fledgling picture library/agency last year, so while I could carry on with my D3s's I have decided to go for the D4 mainly to make my shooting situation more convenient (I'm old OK, comfort is important to me these days). And of course I don't mind taking the other cited improvements in AF, exposure, buffer and slight speed increase as a bonus ;).
    So I will be trying to pre-order today in the UK - and if I happen to get one before Feb 16th its first assignment will be London Fashion Week where I will push it to about 30,000 images over 6 days (with my 2 D3s's as backup just in case!).
    Yes it is more evolutionary than revolutionary, but still compares very well to the competition that are just catching up to some of the D3-series features (leading it in my opionion at least for my purposes). Of course it is aimed at sports shooters, London 2012 and photo-journalists. In a funny way there are parallels between catwalk and sports photography, so I think sports shooters will be very happy with the improvements, so hopefully another triumph for Nikon.
    I'd be interested to see how the improved AF works, little bit disappointed that the 15 cross-type sensors are still clustered in the middle of the frame, I'd like a couple at the top of the vertical frame but that's just me.
    I'm also very interested to see IQ at the higher ISO levels. This is where Nikon excels so I have high expectations. Am I reading it correctly in that the base ISO is now 100?
    I don't really care about video, but I understand why Nikon had to include it ;o. I've only turned on the video once on my D3s by accident and had no idea what I was doing (yeah yeah I never read manuals ;). Maybe the D4 will convince/convert me? I doubt it, but is it correct that the D4 can autofocus in video mode?
    Now, where can I get an XQD card from...;)
     
  19. The D4 will burn through it life cycle of a million or so shots in a few years and the technology will be totally obsolete by then anyway.
    The D3 is now four years old and it's hardly obsolete; lots of photographers use it every day.
    The 85/1.4 is quite unnecessary.
    I had the 85/1.8 AF from 1995 to 2007 and almost never used it. The 85/1.4 AF-S gets more time on the camera than any other. At first when it came out I felt it was overpriced but I no longer think that. Anyway, hopefully the 85/1.8 AF-S will be a nice lens that will help make the Nikon system more affordable.
     
  20. Just what we need, yet ANOTHER card format. The camera looks to be wonderful for pros who use FF.
     
  21. Hear, hear Ronald! You took the words right off my keyboard. Nobody, but nobody benefits from a proliferation of "standards", but at least there's a good ol' CF card slot. Maybe the QXP (or whatever) slot can be used for storing paper notes or a lens cleaning tissue.
     
  22. Wow! I'm not a customer for this camera, but Nikon seems to have hit a home run. Compared with the most recent Canon offering especially...
     
  23. Well I did it. Order placed 10 mins ago. I went through the premier pro dealer in UK, they are expecting the very first batch of 15 units in Feb, ahead of other UK dealers (if you believe the sales guy), with further (weekly IIRC?) batches following. Nikon are apparently very confident of making the shipping dates, second or third week of Feb in UK, but no definite date yet. By paying in full up front I got allocated number 5 on the list of the first batch and will be invited to a Nikon-run demo day sometime before shipping (and I can cancel if I don't like what I see!). Sales guy told me Reuters are taking 20, presumably from a different batch. I notice the pre-order option on Amazon US is sold out.
    This is the first time I've bought a camera within 1 year of launch. Wonder if I should have got around to joining the NPS?
    Anyway, Nikon seem to be causing a buzz and making up for a bad 2011.
     
  24. Is the D4 going to be Nikon's only flagship? The D4 seems geared to sports and video shooters, having only 16.2 Megapixel resolution- a replacement for the D3s. Will there be a D4x with the 24.5 Megapixel resolution of the D3x?
     
  25. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

  26. Will there be a D4x with the 24.5 Megapixel resolution of the D3x?​
    Eric, there might be a couple of other Nikon DSLR cameras announced this year, but only Nikon knows for sure ;)
    On another note, I've been looking at memory cards. The announced XQD prices are not too bad, better than I expected.
    Sony XQD cards (125Mb/s read/write)
    Announced prices:
    16GB QD-H16: $129.99
    32GB QD-H32: $229.99
    Compare that to the current price of the current "top" CF card:
    Sandisk Extreme Pro CF (90Mb/s read/write?)
    Approximate Amazon.com prices:
    16Gb: $100 (announced price in 2009: $300)
    32Gb: $180 (announced price in 2009: $518)
    64Gb: $300 (announced price in 2009: $812)
    Incidentally, Lexar have just announced a 1000x speed cf card.
    Lexar 1000x CF (150MB/s read, 145Mb/s write)
    Announced prices:
    16GB: $169.99
    32GB: $299.99
    64GB: $529.99
    128GB: $899.99
     
  27. those press release URLs are obviously for the benefit of SEO :)
     
  28. Is the D4 going to be Nikon's only flagship?
    In a new generation of their flagship professional camera, Nikon always seems to come out with the PJ / sports / action camera first (probably because this market buys many cameras and lenses and has high visibility in events etc.) which is then followed by the "X" model 1-2 years later, geared for studio/landscape/product/fashion and typically more expensive. I would expect a D700 successor later this year (2500 - 3000 EUR) and then a D4X in 2013 or 2014 at the usual "popular" 8000€ initial price. :) Of course, the ways of the world could change. Canon claims their 1D X is both the successor of the 1D IV and 1Ds III - which I take with a grain of salt. Nikon also claimed in 2007 at the introduction of the D3 that "The D3 is both "H" and "X". There will be no D3X." Look how it turned out.
     
  29. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Rob, I assume Nikon USA works with photo.net in order to boost their sales. However, the first person who publically acknowledges buying a D4 on this forum is purchasing in the UK, thus helping Nikon UK's sales. I guess that can be considered as a "side effect." :)
    A few days ago during our conference call, I expliciately asked Nikon USA about the future of the D3S and D3X. Obviously the D4 is a direct replacement of the D3S, which should be discontinued immediately except for some remaining stock at the dealers. They did not give me a direct answer about the D3X, but their entire D3 generation will be phased out. Whether there will be some "D4X" with 24MP or more pixels, or potentially Nikon's high-pixel DSLR can be a D700-like camera. I have no information at this point. As I have repeated a few times, Nikon can no longer sell EN-EL3e-based products in Japan, so it is very obvious that the D300S and D700 will soon be replaced. However, since the London Olympics has a fixed schedule, the release of the D4 clearly has the highest urgency.
    Personally, my usage of a 24MP or higher DSLR is for landscape photography. I would much rather have that in a D700-type body than a D3/D4 body because I like the lighter weight and smaller size for hiking. If you need a lot of pixels inside a studio, the weather sealing and ruggedness of the D3 and D4 also seem unnecessary.
    I am sure XQD memory cards will be more widely available in a few months, and the price will plummet. If you must use two cards inside the D4, I would buy maybe a 16G XQD for now. Historically, the depreciation of memory cards is much much faster than the depreciation of DSLRs, which is quite fast itself. Also keep in mind that for example the new Canon 1DX (announced last October but will be available even after the D4) uses two CF cards. There is not a whole lot of demand for the XQD at this point unless you own a D4. I would imagine that various high-end camcorders will use the XQD in the near future.
     
  30. "I would expect a D700 successor later this year(.)"

    Ilkka, from your lips to God's ears. The D700 was introduced in the summer of 2008; and I would have expected a successor in 2010.
     
  31. Per-Christian -- please come visit us. Buy your Nikon at B&H.
    The new D4, so pretty, looks a tad smaller than the D3. Has anyone checked the specs for that?
    On the 85/1.4 question, which Ilkka answered in part: the $1000 difference -- which will likely fall a bit now -- is not for 2/3 stop speed but for the quality of construction and optics, leading to durability and famously superb image quality wide open and otherwise. If I had the money I would have the 24//1.4 and the 85/1.4 in a second. Plus my 16-35 and my 50/1.4 and also one of the unaffordable 2.8 tele-zooms and I would be a happy Nikonista.
     
  32. "11 FPS at full resolution." Only 10 with AF, an improvement of 1 over the D3 line (still a good improvement though).
    "11 AF points can autofocus with f/8 lenses" Really only good if you are using 3rd party superzooms or mirror lenses. I wonder how many pros/sports shooter use those kind of lenses...
    As mentioned, this appears to be a superb body for sports shooters but there are perhaps better choices for landscape shooters that cost significantly less.
    I think I will wait for the D5 before I give up on my D3!
    Love the 85mm AF-S f1.8!
     
  33. I for one am happy to read that Nikon is back in biz following the floods and earthquake! Well done guys!
    I am also pleased to learn about the new 85/1,8 AF-S. I will buy one this year to complement my 35/1.8. Now all I want is a Nikon 70-200/4 AF-S (sans VR cos we are still trying to get over the Canon 70-200/4 L USM envy) and I will be a happy Nikon camper!
     
  34. Vince, don't be surprised if I do.... ;) If now only the currency could go back to the level it was 3-4 months ago, I'd have booked a plane ticket already .
     
  35. "11 AF points can autofocus with f/8 lenses" Really only good if you are using 3rd party superzooms or mirror lenses. I wonder how many pros/sports shooter use those kind of lenses...​
    What about tele-converters?
     
  36. The new D4, so pretty, looks a tad smaller than the D3. Has anyone checked the specs for that?​
    D4: Approx. 160 x 156.5 x 90.5 mm/6.3 x 6.2 x 3.6 in.
    D3S: Approx. 159.5 x 157 x 87.5 mm (6.3 x 6.2 x 3.4 in.)
    "11 AF points can autofocus with f/8 lenses"
    As Shun has pointed out - quite useful when using (200-400/4), 500/4 and 600/4 with TC-20EIII extender.
     
  37. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    We did discuss AF with f8 with Nikon. The objective is to be able to AF with those f4 long teles with a TC-20E III (or I or II) on. However, keep in mind that it'll be difficult to get really sharp images with those combo. In particular, I wouldn't put a 2x TC onto the 200-400mm/f4. In fact, I wouldn't even add a 1.4x TC onto that lens. By itself, the 200-400 is among my favorite, but like most zooms, it does not work well with TCs.
    When you add a TC-20E onto a 500mm/f4 or 600mm/f4, vibration will be a major issue. You may also need to stop down to get really good sharpness.
     
  38. In particular, I wouldn't put a 2x TC onto the 200-400mm/f4. In fact, I wouldn't even add a 1.4x TC onto that lens. By itself, the 200-400 is among my favorite, but like most zooms, it does not work well with TCs.​
    Hence the brackets in my post around the 200-400/4. In any case, I follow Arthur Morris' blog (he shoots Canon though) and he (and other bird photographers) use TCs quite a bit with their long lenses - generally not to the detriment of the images produced. It appears that good long lens technique is more important than the degradation in optical quality causes by adding the extender. It also helps that in many cases, sharpness into the corners is not required for the images created. FWIW, if I am not mistaken, then only the central AF sensor on Canon 1D series cameras is capable of f/8 AF, so having 11 in the D4 is clearly a nice step forward.
     
  39. I know you all think the dynamic range in digital is
    acceptable, but at least in my D300 it is lacking.

    I'll wait another half dozen years while that technology
    improves. I doint the D4 has the dynamic range I get with
    negatIve film.
     
  40. I suspect that Nikon may introduce a 800/5.6 and possibly a long zoom that goes to 500mm and is slower than f/5.6 in the long end at some point in the near future. A 500mm f/5.6 is quite big already and that's why I think a f/6.3 may be more realistic in a long zoom. With a 800/5.6 you could then use a 1.4X TC and get autofocus. Or with the TC-20EIII and an f/4 supertele.
    I am a little disappointed that Nikon did not increase the spread of the cross type AF points in the autofocus module. I normally select the active point manually and the reliability of the peripheral linear points is less if one is not careful; sometimes they hunt easily. As it is now I am unlikely to buy a D4 and will wait for further improvements in AF. I quite like the D3X and although I think its best ISO range is 100-400, I can compensate by using wide apertures (with the 85/1.4 AF-S the results look surprisingly good even wide open) and lighting and end up with very crisp results. 400 is my most common ISO on that camera now. I use the D700 for 800-6400 ISO and when I want a more compact body. I think the D3X files are a bit of a burden in terms of raw conversion and post-processing times (even though I have a new computer, SSD, and 8GB RAM) so that's why I think a 16MP D4 sensor would be nice to have in a camera but I would not want to pay 5800 EUR for it. If the price is reduced gradually to the D3s's lowest level of approximately 4000 EUR, a purchase becomes more likely on my part. Maybe by the end of 2013 such a price could be reached.
    I am actually very happy that Nikon is bringing out affordable AF-S primes; now a 35/2 or 28/2 would perhaps be in order to have a more complete line. I would also like to see AF-S versions of the 135mm and 180mm primes, but the 70-200 is so popular that perhaps Nikon can't sell enough of the 135's. The 180mm is quite a common lens and suffers from lower AF precision than most other lenses so that is something of a priority for me; I love its small size and low weight compared to optically excellent 70-200II.
     
  41. First thoughts:
    • MultiCam 3500? Same as in the D3?
    • No direct LiveView button?
    • As usual, I love the look and ergonomics.
    • Sadly, the very same left side switchs again (flash, 10 pin).
    • Smaller than the D3? Great!
    • Looks like the "Nanotechnology" is exclusive for top lenses.
     
  42. •MultiCam 3500? Same as in the D3?
    It's apparently not exactly the same; it's one stop more sensitive and supports f/8 lenses with some of the central sensors. Anyway, having the same AF module number doesn't mean the AF performance is the same; for example the D3 autofocuses some lenses noticeably faster than the D700 (e.g. 135/2). Also, I don't know if I'm imagining it but it appears the D3X autofocuses a bit more accurately than the D700 too; I've been shooting a lot of wide aperture portraits with it recently and I cannot help but think there may be a real difference - the outcome is quite a bit higher quality in these (controlled light but wide aperture) situations. I haven't done a controlled test on that but Marianne Oelund has suggested a similar thing regarding the accuracy of the D3X AF. These differences between AF behaviour could be due to algorithm changes or different optics etc. and Nikon in some cases explicitly advertises them.
    •No direct LiveView button?
    There is a live view button; it's next to the little LCD at the bottom.
    •Looks like the "Nanotechnology" is exclusive for top lenses.
    Nikon has said in some article online that the nano coating cannot be applied to consumer lenses because of the manufacturing process (apparently the handling of elements is rougher in the less expensive lenses (perhaps they're assembled by machine?) and the nano coat is too fragile to withstand this treatment).
     
  43. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Jose, all Nikon DSLRs with video capability have a direct to live view button/capability. The controls on the D4 are seriously re-arranged. That is why there is not even a sport/matrix/center weighted switch. We need to find out exactly how those two joysticks work.
     
  44. So today in Christendom is the Feast of the Epiphany, celebrating the arrival of some WISE MEN from the EAST bringing EXPENSIVE GIFTS..... and a day of REVELATION. I'm sure this was very much in the minds of Nikon management when choosing an announcement date. Don't you think so? Okay, maybe not.
     
  45. D3 updates: 2

    D300 updates: 1

    D700 updates: 0
     
  46. Vince, it was on my mind, too. I have just arrived home loaded with children`s toys and find this thread... "It could be the best present for a photographer", I thought.
    Yes, I think we need to know what`s inside the camera; from outside it don`t reveals nothing revolutionary (the joystics, maybe). We`ll see.
    Thanks Ilkka, I missed the LiveView button, I see it`s now at the bottom, very good. To remove the AF-AE locking button seem to me a good idea.
    I loooove that bit more curved design.
    More things I like:
    • Illuminated butons (something I miss lots of times)
    • Full leveling system (the "only horizon" system lacks)
     
  47. D3 updates: 2
    D300 updates: 1
    D700 updates: 0​
    Perhaps the D3 needed 2 updates, the D300 needed only one, and the D700 was perfect from the get go?
     
  48. Thanks for the reminder, Vince. I need to finish my Twelfth Night baking. I'm introducing a brand new Sweet Potato Pie Ultra with twice the calories in the same size heat resistant receptor.
     
  49. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Peter, the D3 was updated once, to the D3S. The D3X is a different product since it is a high-pixel DSLR. The D3X has always been sold in parallel with the D3, D3S and now D4.
    Likewise, the D2H was updated once to the D2Hs. The D2X is a different type of product and was updated to the D2Xs. Recall that the D1X and D1H were introduced simultaneously back in 2001? The D3, D3S and D4 are really H-type DSLRs for sports/action photography.
     
  50. Shun, I was funnin'... Fact is, I hear very few people complaining about their D700... maybe it was perfect from the get go. I think it might be the most bang-for-the buck and the most perfect DSLR (all things considered, price-point etc...) that Nikon has produced to date...
    Good point about the type-H stuff... I wonder if Nikon would have been better served by putting H at the end of some of those models...
     
  51. Looks amazing, I'll get the brochure to hold and keep using my D200s
    and 15+ Yr old lenses until I hit the powerball :cool:))
     
  52. First, let's remember just how wrong the "N-rumors" crowd seems to have been here. No 36mp, no D800, etc. That's what they kept telling us clear up until yesterday. Just mentioning this for next time the speculation begins all over. Now on to the camera. No way I can justify $6,000 for a camera. My shots won't be $6,000 better, and I won't be selling more because I have a D4. What I do applaud is Nikon's continuing to enhance the video. Now that photo viewing seems to have migrated primarily to the internet for most people, video is coming into its own. I do hope that Nikon has hit a home run here, as they badly need it! The only downside I see is it just doesn't have the megapixels I would expect. Even though I don't see any way I'm buying this camera, I know the more people using Nikon translates into more goodies for me eventually! :)
    As for the 85mm f1.8G, I have no use for it. As ISO continues to climb I'm finding less and less need for anything faster than f2.8 zooms. If I did need an 85mm, I would definitely be buying the Sigma 85mm f1.4. For just a little more, you get a pro lens, not a consumer lens. I have borrowed and used the Sigma and it has a very smooth look. Just don't need one at this time.
    Kent in SD
     
  53. @Kent: The rumor sites had the D4 pretty much spot-on about two weeks ago, and I expect the D800 (or whatever it will be called) will arrive with the 36MP sensor sometime in early 2012.
     
  54. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Les, didn't you post that 36MP rumor to Casual Photo Conversations back in early October (exactly 3 months ago)? http://www.photo.net/casual-conversations-forum/00ZR1g
    The rumor sites have suggested that such camera would be announced imminently with specific dates a couple of times in the last 3 months. So far it has not happened yet. Earlier, they also had numerous wrong information on the D4.
    Regardless, no amount of rumor discussion would bring you the new camera a second sooner. It merely generates a lot of false expectations (and therefore disappointment) and confusion. I am glad you posted that to Casual Photo Conversations. Some other people posted such rumors to this forum, and I suspended them for one month each.
     
  55. Kent, the Sigma 85/1.4 is twice as expensive as the Nikon 85/1.8 is going to be, and there isn't sufficient information on the Nikon to say which is better. I know you're enthusiastic about Sigma primes, but wait and see - if it's had the same treatment as the Nikon 50/1.8G, the 85/1.8G will be a heck of a good lens.
     
  56. Andy--
    I don't doubt it will be at least a decent lens, but my thinking is for just a couple hundred more you can have an f1.4 and a more solid build. Plus maybe a smoother bokeh--we'll see how the reviews go. I don't mind spending extra on lenses since I tend to keep those for quite awhile. My Nikons 17-55mm f2.8 and 70-200mm v2.8 VR have already "known" two camera bodies, and by the end of the year they'll probably see a third. Cameras come & go; first class lenses I keep.
    Kent in SD
     
  57. " As ISO continues to climb I'm finding less and less need for anything faster than f2.8 zooms" At this time, and probably for the near future, lower (lowest) ISO is still preferred over higher ISOs. Lower ISO still gives more detail and better color. This will still likely be true for the D4.
     
  58. One of the things I like most on my D3s is the battery capacity. I almost forget it when I'm travelling.
    On the D4 it is smaller.
    According to Nikon:
    EN-EL 4: 4200 shots / charge
    EN-EL 18: 2600 shots / charge (38% less)
    Did not like it.
    In fact the improvements I've seem on the D4 so far (ISO 204800 who needs it?), only 150g less in weight, 16,2 MP and a smarter and f/8 capable AF system don't attract me. I'll stick with my D3s for a long time and wait for the D5.
     
  59. The aesthetic and/or creative possibilities of wide apertures only can be achieved with fast lenses, despite of the cameras`s high ISO performance.
    Nikon have to develop a good offer in fast lenses. If not, even myself could jump to the white side.
     
  60. Nikon have to develop a good offer in fast lenses​
    With a 24/1.4, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, 85/1.4, 105/2, 135/2, 200/2 what fast lens could you possible desire that Nikon does not offer already? Granted, the 105/2 and 135/2 could use an update. Some f/1.2 glass maybe? Buy a Leica - they even offer f/0.95.
     
  61. The D4 is ugly ! I wonder if I'm the only one here thinking that ? The battery capacity will be another issue for me. Those Japanese safety regulation shouldn't apply in the rest of the world, and Nikon should provide a bigger capacity battery option.
     
  62. With a 24/1.4, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, 85/1.4, 105/2, 135/2, 200/2 what fast lens could you possible desire that Nikon does not offer already?​
    I would like cheaper, smaller versions...either a 24, 28, or 35 1.8 FX would do.
     
  63. Alternately, I'd trade in my d700 for a d7000, if nikon comes out w/ dx fast wide primes: 16, 20 and 24 f1.8...
     
  64. By the spec's, I'd love a D4 (or even a D3s), but at 6k? Doesn't mesh with my wallet, and regardless, for anyone who's seen my pics on Nikon Wednesdays can tell, I haven't exploited/mastered my lowly D90 yet. Wished I had that kind of cash, but I'd probably buy more lenses.
     
  65. Kent, I wasn't aware that Sigma made any pro lenses.
    For a few hundred bucks more you get 2/3 of a stop, and (maybe) nicer bokeh. But you also get far worse build quality, worse manual focusing action (it gives the 50/1.8D a run for its money), no manual focus override w/ AF-C, no liveview, no rangefinder dot(!), awful service (unless you like seeing your "pro" lenses chucked in a mostly empty box), and all around bad autofocus. Even the guys lensrentals.com have commented on the AF accuracy problems they've seen across many samples of Sigma fast 30/50/85s (some of which simply can't be corrected with AF fine tune). As far as 85s go, the Sigma weighs twice as much (ouch). I certainly am not a fan of the 85/1.8D with its nasty bokeh, but if the new 1.8G can up the ante, the Sigma doesn't really bring much to the table for someone looking for a cheap 85.
     
  66. Les, didn't you post that 36MP rumor to Casual Photo Conversations back in early October (exactly 3 months ago)?http://www.photo.net/casual-conversations-forum/00ZR1g
    Shun: I thought I used enough sarcasm; I will use more next time.
    A reliable rumor from a guy whose brother used to date a Nikon rep says that the soon-to-be-announced D800 will have a 24x36 mm sensor (a/k/a 'full frame') with no less than 36 megapixels. [Italics added.]​
    In any case, the rumor I posted has to do with the "D800" not the (now official) D4.
     
  67. My personal impression is that the D4 seems to receive a rather lukewarm welcome - probably because it appears to be a rather modest upgrade of the D3S accompanied by a quite hefty increase in price - the combination of which may give many pause as to whether there is enough to be gained by upgrading. Maybe the uncertainty as to what the D700 successor might look like will prevent some from buying now - especially in light of the D3/D700 release sequence where many would have opted for waiting and saving 50% of the cost to get 90% of the utility by purchasing the D700 rather than the D3.
    I keep wondering - despite the tweaks in the AF system - whether the delay caused by the earthquake/tsunami prevented the D4 from being released with an altogether new AF module? In an FX camera, the Multi-Cam 3500 has some shortcomings with regard to sensor distribution and coverage - and many expected those to be remedied in the D4.
     
  68. Dieter, I think I have commited a translation mistake; it is quite the opposite what I wanted to mean. Maybe "Nikon must keep the (already) good fast lens offer" is closer to my idea. My excuses.
    And I agree with you, the offer is already wide. This is one of the reasons I stay with Nikkor for more than three decades...
    -
    BTW, I do like the current AF point concentration in the MultiCam 3500 FX cameras (D4 included). I prefer it more than on the D300 (I must be the only one, thought). The only thing I`d change on FX are the two AF points at the extremes; better to have cross type ones here.
     
  69. "... The only thing I`d change on FX are the two AF points at the extremes; better to have cross type ones here..."
    (Because I`m used to the 11 points layout; I use the "extreme" ones -left and right- to -partially- avoid the "focus and recompose" in portraiture).
     
  70. On monday I will be able to test this new camera (D4 and 85/1,8AFS) :). A small and "insignifiant"(between thousand others in the world) store, named F64 , in Bucuresti(Romania) offre this opportunity on monday (9 ian). If you remember , F64 was the first store to announce the D3s as out of production, just few days ago. And this is the announcement:
    http://www.f64.ro/blog/2012/01/06/nikon-d4-si-nikkor-85mm-f1-8g/
    BTW: It seems that Joe McNally wasn't the only photog who get the D4 for a test , before the official anouncement of the camera.
     
  71. And some pictures taken with D4+85/1,8AFS, here:
    http://mirceabezergheanu.smugmug.com/gallery/20915871_LhHTdj#!i=1661824017&k=XN2MZrT
     
  72. I`d check the functionality and comfort of the joystics. For sure all the other features will be impressive.
     
  73. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Shun: I thought I used enough sarcasm; I will use more next time.​
    Les, I don't care how much sarcasm you use. The end result is the same: it spreads such rumors to photo.net, and enough people would take it seriously, in that particular case expecting this "D800" in October, 2011. When that doesn't materialize, it creates frustration. I block links to rumor sites on the Nikon Forum for a reason. Whoever reposts such rumors here will be suspended for at least a month, maybe longer, regardless of whether such rumors eventually become true or not.
    Casual Photo Conversation has different forum policies.
     
  74. Curtis, that site came out with an exact announcement date for the D800 at least 2 times, maybe more, and when the date passed without an announcement, they suddenly came up with a stupid excuse as to why it was not announced. I would so love to see the D700 replacement not even called D800, but something else, just to annoy those guys. I visited the site a couple of times out of curiosity, because I heard so much of it here, but I quickly stopped doing that after I realized that it was just what its name said: a rumor site (I know, I should have thought of that earlier). I don't blame them, because at least they make it clear in their name. Whoever gets frustrated over rumors not being true needs to grow up. But photo.net is not called photorumors.net. When I see a thread titled "Nikon introduces the D4..." or something similar here, I expect it to be true.
    I am not sure a suspension is the best solution, but hey, if you want to spread or read rumors, do it on the rumor site.
     
  75. "nikon rumors USUALLY gets everything right" Only after they have gotten in wrong a bunch of times. I believe they usually get it right only after the real information has been leaked either intentionally or accidentally just prior to the actual product release, as was the case here.
    Everyone who wants to read rumors knows exactly where they need to go to read them.
     
  76. As for the 85mm f1.8G, I have no use for it. As ISO continues to climb I'm finding less and less need for anything faster than f2.8 zooms. If I did need an 85mm, I would definitely be buying the Sigma 85mm f1.4. For just a little more, you get a pro lens, not a consumer lens.​
    It (Sigma 85/1.4) weighs like a sledge hammer. 85/1.8 G is 350g only. If one need a repeating and constant focus the Nikkor may be a better lens. Obviously we are the eyewitnesses of changing Nikon's approach to rendering and bokeh in several groups and classes of lenses nowadays and the approach of Nikon to lenses in general. Now both 50/1.4 and 50/1.8 AF-s are better than Canon respective ones. Maybe, 50/1.2 G is coming soon? Patented already?
    Older 85/1.8 had harsh bokeh but it produced a dimentional and sharp pictures. What about new one?
     
  77. Is the new 85mm f1.8 weather-sealed?
     
  78. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Curtis, your memory seems to be incorrect. My record shows that on 3rd October, 2011, you posted the following:
    Subject: Nikon D800 specs

    Looks like a 99% positive confirmation of the D800 is up on Nikon Rumors.

    36 MP

    [ other details deleted ]

    Market price is about 300,000 yen. The announcement on October 26, released on November 24.​
    Les started his thread 3 days later on 6th October: http://www.photo.net/casual-conversations-forum/00ZR1g
    I assume the two of you plus Oliver Racz read the same rumor, and so did I. Again, I don't care whether any particular rumor turns out to be true or not. If you keep spreading rumors week after week until a certain camera is announced, eventually some info will leak and you will it right. But until it is officially announced, we have no idea a certain rumor is true or not, as most of them are not. Nowadays I suspend first-time offenders for reposting rumors from well known rumor sites by a month. Suspension for repeat offenders will be longer.
     
  79. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    On a different topic, my latest lens the 60mm/f2.8 G AF-S macro lens has nano coating, as indicated by the big "N" on the lens barrel. That lens is currently $560 at B&H and was made in Thailand. Therefore, apparently nano coating is not restricted to very expensive lenses. However, the 40mm/f2.8 DX AF-S macro does not.
    In fact, at half the cost, the $280 40mm DX lens has no nano coating, no ashperic elements, and no ED elements. However, it is still a very good lens. It makes me wonder whether those items are more marketing slogans.
    00Zq4h-431445584.jpg
     
  80. It makes me wonder whether those items are more marketing slogans.​
    Even if it's more than that... it doesn't mean that if you have an "N" lens it will magically make your pictures better or even make much of a difference in the photos you take. My 30-some-odd-year old 55mm f3.5 lens is very "primitive" compared to my newer lenses and it takes unbelievable photos.
    Photographers (and musicians for that matter) tend to obsess over specs about our gear sometimes and forget that we want to make art, and that some of the things we worry about matter way less than we think. Interestingly enough, it's more likely to be amateurs like me than pros who do this (in both fields).
     
  81. I had actually expected the D4 to be more of an exponential step up from the D3 (X/S). I was expecting higher MP, a entirely new sensor and such. I had theorized that with the almost two year delay (if you go by nikon's usual body release schedule) in getting this new model out that even though the manufacturing side of the business being down that the engineering side would still be working full steam. I had figured that what the models that would eventually come out would be closer to D4x, D800x, D400x.
     
  82. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    I had actually expected the D4 to be more of an exponential step up from the D3 (X/S). I was expecting higher MP, a entirely new sensor and such.​
    Brian, the D4 does have a totally new sensor designed by Nikon and more pixels. However, it is a sports/action DSLR where fast AF and frame rate is significant. For news photos on web sites, newspapers, and even full pages on magazines such as Sports Illustrated, 16MP is more than sufficient. The recently announced Canon 1DX, no doubt the chief rival for the D4, has similar specs. The 1DX has 18MP and perhaps 1 or 2 more frames/sec at a higher cost.
    During our conference call with Nikon ealier, it is clear that for still-image capture, DSLRs have reached a platau. We are not going to see those drastic improvements from the D1 generation to D2, and from D2 to D3. All they are doing are small refinements here and there. However, the video part is improving quickly. When I used the D3S 2 years ago, it was obvious that its video capability is primitive.
    To me, it is clear that the trend is towards 3D video capture. If you go to Costco, Best Buy, etc., there are some 3D TVs already, although they are still primitive and you may need to wear some stupid glasses to watch 3D. I recall that 20 years ago, AF was very primitive and 10 years ago, DSLRs were primitive; people used to call them both junk during those early days.
     
  83. Two year delay? The typical interval between totally new generation Nikon bodies is about four years and a month, and
    this time there seems to be an approximately four month extra delay no doubt due to the natural disasters.
     
  84. @ Shun,
    Do you feel like we've reached the "wall" in fps with mirrored cameras?
     
  85. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Years ago, there was some study that the mechanical mirror would limit the frame rate to like 12. Moreover, the AF system would not have a whole lot of time to adjust focus with so little time between captures. But then, as a photographer, I wonder whether a higher frame rate would make a big difference.
    When I tested the D3 4 years ago, I captured this tennis serving sequence during an actual match with Maria Sharapova. The D3 maxes out at 9 frames/sec: http://www.photo.net/photo/7073740&size=lg
    There are sufficient samples that having a higher frame rate will probably not make a huge difference. I also capture a lot of birds in flight type images, and having 7, 8 frames/sec is sufficient.
    In those occasions, you tend to capture those sequence over and over, e.g. a tennis player will serve many times over a match, and birds tend to fly again and again. Eventually I get some good images. However, something like the men's 100 meter dash final only happens once per Olympics. Some big-time sports photographers would set up multiple cameras with remote control along the track to capture that one-time event that lasts less than 10 seconds.
     
  86. @Jose-"I`d check the functionality and comfort of the joystics"
    That was my first thought, and I'm to very curious about those joysticks. On my D3 (and D700), the focus mode selector ,which I use very often , it's hard to move by mistake. I'm not so sure if it's such a good idea to replace this switch with a joystick..., but I will see... I have little interest regarding video capabilities. In my line of work (weddings , pro and studio pictures) the videographer need a very specific and expensive equipment in order to achieve (fast and accurate) long and excellent video quality (with sound) all the time. I think this is more a hobbyist feature..., but again , you never know when you need it.
     
  87. A nice upgrade but personally I would have liked to have seen a 'What You See Is What You Get' electronic viewfinder like the Sony NEX-7. They can keep the mirrorbox if they want.
     
  88. 'What You See Is What You Get'​
    What you see is a delayed image...... optical viewfinders are still necessary on a flagship sports camera.
    Cheers
     
  89. I wonder if the new (updated) modules' ability to handy >f8 lenses will mean the Bigmas will focus more quickly? The long end @ 6.3 was always challenging.
    Equally, the old fix of taping over some contacts on tele-converters to 'force' them to work, may be un-necessary now??
     
  90. I wonder if the view finders in these new cameras show the actual depth of field and not a more extreme depth of field. Not even sure why this is the case in digital SLRs.​
    It's because the screens are optimized to brighten up the look of f5.6 lenses. The trade-off is increased depth of field at the very wide apertures. the real number is around f2.8. Anything wider open than that doesn't look any different in these modern focusing screens.
     
  91. Equally, the old fix of taping over some contacts on tele-converters to 'force' them to work, may be un-necessary now??​
    To the best of my knowledge that is a fix for Canon cameras but was never necessary for a Nikon. My D300 focuses with a 300/4 and TC-17EII, which result in an effective aperture of f/6.7 - but it hunts a lot in anything but good light (and is slow even then). It would even work with a TC-20E at f/8 - with an even poorer AF performance. On a Canon body (except their 1D series), AF would simply not work at all beyond f/5.6 - unless you force it with the taping trick - then it just works equally poorly as on a Nikon body.
     
  92. Anyone know how 'quiet' the quiet Release mode might be ?

    • S (single frame),
    • CL (continuous low speed),
    • CH (continuous high speed),
    • Q (quiet shutterrelease),
    • (self-timer),
    • MUP (mirror up)
     
  93. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    The Quiet Shutter Release feature has been standard on the higher-end Nikon DSLRs since the D300S (mid 2009). The D3S and D7000 both have that capability.
    Concerning the new EN-EL18 battery, Thom Hogan has some comments. The new Japanese safety regulations on Lithium ion batteries seems to be very strict. Not only does the exposed contacts on the EN-EL3 considered unsafe, the high capacity on the EN-EL4a is also considered unsafe. That is why the D4 uses the new EN-EL18 with reduced capacity: http://www.bythom.com/d4intro.htm
     
  94. It would appear then that Quiet mode is not actually quiet if it's the same as it was in the D3s (i.e the mirror is quieter than single-frame mode).
     
  95. Shun, thanks for posting the Thom Hogan link; it makes interesting reading, particularly the 3 areas that he queries, viz the mismatched card slots, diminished capacity battery and untried sensor quality. We'll have to wait and see. But although I'd still love to have a digital rangefinder, to me the D4 sounds as though it might just be the perfect camera.
     
  96. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Clearly Thom Hogan is a Nikon gugu and he knows what he is talking about the D4, very well. But as some people on DPReview's forums have pointed out, in the last year or two, he seems to be grumpy and has been complaining about every little thing about Nikon's marketing, to a point that I find very annoying. However, there is no question about his extensive knowledge about Nikon cameras.
    Concerning the EN-EL18 battery, to me it is more like a tempest in a tea cup: http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00ZqiH
    If that were indeed the biggest issues for the D4, I would say the D4 is doing extremely well.
    Concerning the XQD memory card, that technology/product is sponsored by Sandisk, Sony, and Nikon. Therefore, politically, Nikon has to put it into the D4, while the Canon 1DX uses two CF cards. Since no XQD cards are available on the market yet and the D4 is the very first product that uses it, in this early stage it is obviously a problem, but in another 6 months to a year, I think people will appreciate the XQD option. But there is certainly a price to pay when you are at the bleeding edge.
    Hopefully I'll get my hands on a D4 some day to check it out. At this point I am not convinced that I should buy one myself. Since I am still mostly a wildlife photographer, the DX format still has its advantages, not to mention a lower cost.
     
  97. I agree that having the XQD slot will become a great option 6 months to a year from now.
    I am actually surprised at how competitive the prices of the early cards are.
    Now I am anxious to read reviews about image quality and especially dynamic range of the new sensor. And obviously anxious to see the technology applied soon to the D700 and D300s replacements.
     

Share This Page