Nikon Introduces Mirrorless Z System

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by ShunCheung, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. Heimbrandt, what the Euro price for the Z6 + FT-Z combo there?

    One En-EL15a gets you 15 mins of video. That's barely half way to that 'allowed' by the body itself.

    The difference in body prices is interesting too.

    Effectively the $1400 difference between Z6 and Z7 is simply the difference between a 24 MP and 45MP sensor. The cameras are identical apart from that.

    ...and the 500mm VR PF is £3700 or $4625, so

    "That price is a bit cheaper than what I had anticipated."

    That's more than a THOUSAND dollars more here in the UK...it kinda sucks!!

    What are the pricing wombles doing???
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  2. Effectively the $1400 difference between Z6 and Z7 is simply the difference between a 24 MP and 45MP sensor. The cameras are identical apart from that.

    Performance may also differ. The Z7 can do 9fps only with exposure and focus fixed during the sequence (if I understood correctly) and 5.5 fps with autofocus and autoexposure. I would imagine/hope the Z6 could do better, but let's wait and see. It is likely a processing issue with the amount of data that the 45MP sensor generates (both image and AF data). I am hoping the Z6 sensor read time is faster than the Z7's because it would permit less rolling shutter when silent shooting, but only time will tell how it performs. Silent shutter is the main capability I'm interested in but if the read time is the typical 1/15s then I may not be willing to spend the money.

    I am pleased to hear that the AF with F mount AF-S Nikkors appears ok, though 35/1.8 AF-S FX is reportedly is a bit noisy if continuously focusing in video mode (according to dpreview staff comments). Newer lenses such as the 24-70/2.8E and 70-200/2.8E are likely to jitter less and be quieter than some other lenses. I think dpreview's complaints about the interface to AF are a bit odd - after all the focusing is not based on the combination of separate RGB sensor and AF sensor modules but on the main imaging sensor which gives different kind of data and so the algorithms, AF area modes and features are understandably different. They say that the camera in auto area mode tracked a toddler indoors with the 35/1.8 S so that's promising. I think users just have to learn a new system rather than expect that it mimics DSLR AF.

    Reported lack of dual card slots is suggesting that Nikon have changed their policy and no longer think that this level (advanced amateur/enthusiast/semi-pro) of camera should need dual cards (the D7500 also has only one slot). This I imagine is a strange choice when Nikon are the one who made dual cards popular in this class.

    The 500 PF pricing here (4300€) was right in the middle of my guess (3500 to 5000 EUR). I think the Nikon samples look good, I like the rowing woman photo, it has a tranquility to it. The weight at 1.46kg is a bit higher than I had guessed but understandable given that it has tripod mount etc. I think the actual price will likely be a bit lower than the suggested price as it usually is. I can wait (I know people will chuckle when I show up with some 500 PF Wednesday photos before long).
     
  3. I am not sure about competing with Sony but the 2 cameras sure give the D750 and D850 a run for the money. So unless you like the DSLR better (which I do, I don't like the Mirrorless) the Z6 and Z7 are better deal than D750 and D850. That even in the case that you will have to use mostly F mount lenses.

    The FTZ adapter seems to have the aperture coupling to control G lenses aperture.
     
  4. I don't think the teasers implied much; there were basically few features demonstrated except touch screen and adapter to F mount lenses, which were expected. I think the hype was mostly due to web sites who live from the hype surrounding new releases. What is exciting in my opinion is that there will be new fast primes (even f/1.2 and f/0.95); the cameras seem to support F mount lenses quite well, the sensor based image stabilizer is now taken up by Nikon, and there are no significant bad news that I could find (apart from the single card slot which they probably will correct in a later model).

    Thankfully at least the card slot is XQD so we don't have to struggle with too small buffer and the reliability should be good. Interesting that apart from Sony, Delkin, also Nikon are apparently going to introduce their own XQD cards. Was there any word about CF express compatibility?

    The adapter is longer than usual because the camera's flange distance (distance from sensor to mount) is shorter. So the adapter has to make up for the difference. Also there is the motor to control G lens aperture, that is often missing from third party adapters.

    To me the roadmap to lenses is better than expected and pretty sound. There are 20mm, 24mm, 35mm, 50mm and 85mm f/1.8 primes; smart choices from Nikon as these are rational and practical maximum apertures and should fit well with a smaller mirrorless body (compared to DSLR). Also two f/4 zooms and the inevitable two f/2.8 zooms. Finally the exotic 50/1.2 and 58/0.95. I quite like the way they are starting the system.
     
  5. That's not clear to me. The D850 can do 45 MP images at 9fps with full autofocus and autoexposure whereas, as far as I know, the Z7 can only do 5.5fps with autofocus and autoexposure between shots, and 9fps with settings fixed. The D850 has dual card slots. The nominal battery capacities (CIPA) are 330 shots with the Z7 and 1840 shots with the D850 (using the EN-EL15a/b).

    In terms of autofocus, each system likely has advantages and disadvantages; the Z7 probably does better face detect AF if the subject can be anywhere in the frame (since the PDAF sensor in the D850 is limited to a smaller area of the frame whereas in the mirrorless camera the focus points extend further out), but for tracking approaching subjects I would expect the D850 (and especially the D5) to be better, but obviously this is something we find out over time. The interface for initiating subject tracking in the Z7 seems to require some additional OK button presses whereas with the DSLRs you just move the point around and go.

    However, in the mirrorless camera the AF tracking on the video side should be a lot better than on the DSLR, since Nikon do not use embedded PDAF points in their DSLRs and the LV AF on the Nikon DSLRs is a subject of infamy. The Z7 video specs include 10-bit NLog output which should be interesting to those who use external recorders and want to maximize the stored information.

    Also, there is in-camera stabilization which I am sure will make a lot of people happy. I don't personally care much as I use fast shutter speeds when hand holding and rarely use slow speeds without tripod. I don't actually mind using the tripod, I like the control, stability and certainty that it brings with it. Also I have VR in key lenses especially on the telephoto side and one normal zooms.

    Finally there is the matter of the viewfinder. I read an estimate that 1/15s would be the sensor read time which means there is a delay. How the viewfinder experience is will have to be determined.
     
  6. Yes, but dpreview got 1600 images and some video on one battery charge, so that's not so bad.
     
  7. So why are they being SO conservative? That would put me off even trying it!

    Are Nikon just wrong? 500% wrong?

    Is it a typo? 1320 frames maybe?

    .........or 320 frames AND 10-15min video?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  8. It's 290 (CIPA) for the A7RII with its NP-FW50 battery and 530/650 for the A7RIII with the new NP-FZ1000 battery (viewfinder/LCD screen use). The older Sony battery was only 1080mAh, the newer one is 2280mAh; Nikon's EN-EL15/EN-EL15a is 1900mAh and I assume the EN-EL15b is the same. Apparently Sony found a way to make the their 3rd Generation less power hungry.

    IIRC, then the A7RIII/A7III also get more shots than the CIPA numbers indicate.
     
  9. OK. So Nikon haven't really competed on specification against Sony, and they sure haven't competed on price. Plus the iffy 'choice' of a single XQD only, is pretty much the last straw deal breaker.

    Bye, bye Nikon. The future's Sony!
     
  10. If I read dpreview correctly, the only AE has to be locked to get 9fps. Just found this in a different dpreview article:

    A bit harsh, the spec comparisons I have seen so far look pretty close between the Z6 and A7III, and the Z7 and A7RIII - aside from the stated battery life and Nikon's inexplicable choice of 1 card slot. That Nikon doesn't provide Eye-AF is a bit of a bummer though. Devil's in the details though - often the specs don't really list the limitations and in reading dpreview, Nikon does seem to fall a bit short of Sony with some of those.

    Here's one from dpreview:
    Price for the A7III and Z6 are identical and the Z7 costs currently $400 more than the A7RIII (on account of a $200 discount for the latter).

    The Nikon looks better though;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  11. Okay, I got that wrong. But a fixed exposure during a burst seems pretty odd and somewhat limiting also, depending on what it is used for.

    Also live view between frames is available only up to 5.5fps; at 9fps you don't get real-time updates of the viewfinder image between frames apparently. In practice this would limit the usage of the high fps rates quite severely.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  12. You're probably right - here's hoping that the 14-30 may take a conventional filter.
     
  13. Might be the result of test procedures that don't really mimic real life use? Depending on how I shoot, I seem to be getting vastly different number of shots on my D500, for example. High-speed continuous shooting seems to stress the battery less than just walking around taking the occasional shot - the difference can be 4x or even more.
     
    Ed_Ingold and mike_halliwell like this.
  14. from dpreview:
     
  15. Using the D850 I get quite close to the CIPA rated 1800 images on an EN-EL15a battery.

    However, perhaps there is something in the CIPA procedure that makes the Z7 look bad in testing but better in real life? EVF certainly can consume power.
     
  16. At those prices, why wouldn't someone just buy a Leica? I am hoping this flushes a fair number of used D850 on the market next year.


    Kent in SD
     
    • Watching the presentation last night, to me it seemed they are putting more emphasis on video capabilities.
    • With the D850 barely one year old, I found it interesting that the mirrorless pair have an upgraded image processor, XSPEED 6.
    • The 5 stop VR sounds impressive.
    • With the backlog issues of the D850 I wonder if production will be able to meet demand. I guess that depends on the demand.
     
  17. They are competent but not sufficient to beat the Sony by specs alone. There must be some other qualities in order to do that and we don't know them yet. They seem to be great competitors to Nikon DSLR's.
     
  18. I like the fact that the 2 cameras look the same. They do look nice.
     

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