Nikon Introduces D300s, D3000, New Versions of 18-200 and 70-200

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by shuncheung, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

  2. Very minor refresh of the D300, virtual horizon feature is eye candy, never used it on my D700. Video is useless unless they have an external mic jack and full 16 bit sound compatibility (most likely 14 bit). D3000 should sell well, a replacement for D60?
     
  3. finally - the 70-200 upgrade :)
     
  4. Dave - they do have an external mic jack, btw.
     
  5. Makes Canon look like they are asleep at the switch again. All of us using digital can only benefit by the competition as these improved models make it nicer with every new model. Looks to be a shot across the bow of the 5DMkII as well as the 1DMkIII/50D. Nikon has someone paying attention to photographers requests.
     
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    Two areas of surprise for me.
    One is the continuation of the CCD sensor in the new entry level D3000 model. I thought Nikon might want to comonalise around their DX CMOS sensor so as to keep costs down / production runs high for these parts.
    Second is the evolved 18-200VR DX zoom. Sure a few things like the zoom lock fix obvious things like this lenses propensity for barrel creep, but I thought this lens was one of Nikon's cash cows and therefore would be left alone - especially as it is definitely aimed at a segment of the market who can bear some compromise and look for overall utility, rather than wanting every last little detail and specification right.
     
  7. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

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    Shun / Hannah - preview links don't work.
     
  9. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Bernard, those links work for me.
     
  10. So bad the D3000 still has a D200/D80/D40X/D60 generation 10 mp CCD sensor. Probably even with better image processing, its high ISO performance still won't be up to the standard of the D300/D90/D5000 generation of DX bodies.
     
  11. One woks one does not. Go to NikonUSA and there it works.
     
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  13. Bernard, both links work for me - did you trying clearing your browser's cache?
     
  14. It is nice to see, but I am not buying.
    I have a 18-200mm already and no complains incl lens creep hasn't witnessed by myself. I have a 80-200/2.8 AFD which I am happy with. I am actually looking for a 2nd hand body and lenses in particular maybe a D2h for sports cos I only do photography club stuff or hobby stuff, for most of my work I have a D70 for my still images on a tripod, I don't do candids or portraits. I may look into a Tamron 17-50 the digital lens, maybe a Nikon DX fisheye and maybe a 24/2.0 manual for my manual focus film body, maybe medium and large format for a diff style of photography. I am actually wanna get a Gitzo traveler to streamline my weight and a Markins Q3 head and studio lights at home to do some family shots and learn about lighting. Pixels and noise has never been an issue for me.
    But for travel which is my dominant photog for landscapes and cityscapes, I find that my 18-200 is large so the 18-70 is great that I have, may even consider a 18-55, I am sure Galen may consider that too given that he used 28-70/3.5-4.5 and the 80-200/4.5-5.6.
    As a side note I would love a dSLR to be as light and small as the N75 at 380g :)
     
  15. Nice Can't wait to meet this guy
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0907/0907300370mm200mm.asp
     
  16. I would have loved to see a D700X. Is it possible that it will be released by itself later in the year, or do they typically release them in unison?
    The new 70-200 doesn't look as nice, but the specs are impressive.
     
  17. Shun, does the new D300s drop to 2.5 fps when set to 14Bit NEF mode? The spec doesn't mention this.
     
  18. The D3000 is a little disappointing. I was hoping that it would have the 12Mp sensor, but I can understand Nikon's for not choosing to put that on their entry-level camera. I have a D80, and for some time I've been pondering the possibility of getting a smaller body for travel. I was hoping, however, that given the passage of time I could not only get something smaller but also something updated, e.g with the 12 Mp sensor. But that hasn't happened so I won't be buying. (I have no interest in video.)
    D80 users are in a bit of a bind, actually: while the D90 is a better camera, it's not really better enough to merit the cost of the upgrade (IMHO). I remember that I was somewhat underwhelmed when I went from D70 to D80, and I determined not to do the same again. The D300s is an even better camera, of course, but the cost of upgrade is even higher. So I think I shall wait out the current generation and see what comes along in 2010.
    Or go to m4/3: if you can find them, there are some good prices on the Panasonic G1.
     
  19. The D3000 is very interesting if it can be modded to be a good IR camera.
    The 70-200/2.8 upgrade is very welcome, but I really need a 70-200/4 that costs less than 1000 euros. Still if my shooting habits would change and the price would drop, I would consider the new 70-200/2.8.
    The 18-200 is a waste of time, but Nikon probably makes money on that. Yawn.
     
  20. 70-200 II - very nice. It has 70 grams of extra weight compared to the original 70-200; this doesn't sound too bad if the image in the corners is good and there is less vignetting. The corner MTF at 200mm has clearly been improved, but not is still not at prime lens level; presumably it picks up when stopped down. The center MTF has gone up too, so DX users have not been left out. 2430€ is expensive though, hopefully street prices settle for a lower level. I imagine I will pick this lens up some time in the winter and have it available for next summer's events.
    D300s now has contrast-detect autofocus in movie mode and external audio support. But no mention of manual exposure control, which is disappointing.
     
  21. Dual memory card slots on the D300S - YAY!!!
     
  22. Dual card slots is good. But if you want to use it for backups, you have to replicate your CF cards with SD cards, adding to the cost. Odd decision, to use a mixed combination of card slots. But any two slots is better than just one slot, so I'll shut up.
    While I've been waiting for a version of the D300 with video, the lack of full manual exposure control makes me wonder. They're playing with us, and already planning on selling the next model. I'm unsure if I want to invest at this point.
     
  23. Waiting for the D700X (some say christmas?) and 85mm f/1.4 AFS
     
  24. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Bernard, earlier I tested those links from my wife's computer, and they worked fine. I wonder why you have problems.
    Nikon USA has no sample D300s or the new 70-200mm lens yet. I assume the D300s uses the same sensor as the D300 so that I would expect its frame rate to drop to 2.5 fps in the 14-bit RAW mode. That is why I always use the D300 in the 12-bit mode. I have a hard time telling the difference anyway, although on the D700 there is no such penalty so that I use 14 bits all the time.
    The dual card feature is nice. There is probably not that much space on the D300 for dual CF cards. Note that like the D700, the D300s is no longer compatible with the thicker Type II CF (e.g. microdrive). as the D300 does Therefore, Nikon manages to get some room for the SD card. It also makes it easier for D40, D60, D80, and D90 ... owners to upgrade since they can continue using their SD cards.
    I pointed out to our Nikon contact about the large number of complaints about the corner performance on the old 70-200, but they don't have any info about corner performance on the new version yet. Hopefully they'll have some sample images soon, or better yet, samples we can test. However, photo.net should be receiving a D3000 any time for a quick test.
    Speaking of the D3000, for US$600, you get the D200's CCD sensor and AF module plus a 3" back LCD and a 18-55mm kit lens. IMO that is a pretty good deal. If you want the 12MP CMOS sensor, spend more for a D5000.
     
  25. Shun
    When did you have time to write those reviews? Dont you have to sleep. I mean I dont know but it seems pretty fast.
    OTOH I don't care for Nikons video mode on D300s dual card is nice but I will be staying with my D300 untill it no longer does what I need it.
    I guess Nikon sees a market for this camera and I wish them nothing but sucess I am a Nikon lover .
     
  26. All in all, good moves. The 70-200 seems a little pricey to me. The 18-200 seems like an awful minor refresh (a "bug fix" in my opinion with regard to zoom lock and lessened zoom creep) for more money... I would've left it alone. I think a 300 or 350-dollar 18-70 with VR would be a better addition to the line, but Nikon knows what they're selling.
    The 300s is right on the money, and I think the 3000 is, too.
     
  27. I love Nikon, so please don't read more into this than intended.
    My feeling is that Nikon shot themselves in the foot with this one. (D-300S.)
    The D-300 camera is intended for the prosumer and/or advanced amateur.
    The 300S is targeted to these same shooters.
    I can't see these people (including myself) buying one as there just isn't enough there to cause me to sell my D-300 or even desire any aspect of the D-300S.
    Perhaps I am different, but if you tell me the new D-300S will shoot noise free at ISO 1,600 and up, well; that IS a improvement. Or faster AF etc...
    Duel media slots is great..Love 'em on my D3; but SD AND CF? Hmmmm?
    D-200 to D-300..Now that was an improvement.
    Feature sets if properly implemented sell me to a point; image quality is what really sells me.
    Sorry Nikon..I think you missed the boat considering your target.
     
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    Shun - am now on my work computer (its late evening in Sydney) and the links work fine. Must be something with the cache on my work PC. Cheers and thanks for the great previews. How long were you able to play with the 2 new bodies before their announcement?
     
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    Sorry, I just picked something else up. Ilkka/Shun are you suggesting that the D300s has no M mode at all? (ie it only has P,S,and A)??
     
  30. Ilkka no manual mode on D300s? why would they do that ? :-(
     
  31. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Photo.net's editor Hannah Thiem received advanced information on the new cameras and lenses from Nikon USA about a month ago, but of course we were all under the NDA (non-disclosure agreement) photo.net had with Nikon until midnight, July 30. I wrote the previews about 2 weeks ago and refined them in the last few days when more information became available.
    Remember the so called "Nikon roadmap" that was all over the internet about 3 weeks back? http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00TtHX According to the roadmap, Nikon would introduce the new version of the 70-200 in October 2009 while photo.net already got information from Nikon USA that it would be announced on July 30, 2009. That was why I immediately knew the "roadmap" was BS. It was too bad that many rumor sites kept pushing that roadmap to generate traffic to their sites even though it was very clear that it was mainly nonsense plus some well known leaks such as the D300s.
     
  32. if no M mode I would never buy it. Maybe starting now all new Nikon cameras will lack M mode and will have green auto instead. :)
     
  33. MUST have PSAM.. Must be a mistake..
    Even the simplest models didn't miss out on that one.
    AH
     
  34. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Bernard, what is going on with you? :)
    I have no idea why anybody is under the impression the D300s has no M mode. Of course it has all P, S, A, and M as usual.
     
  35. Please Ikka clarify that you were referring only to the video mode, and that the lack of manual control is only an assumption. It seems you scared a few people here.
    Pete Harlan, as I see it, the D300s is not introduced to convince D300 users to upgrade, but to give one more reason to those potential buyers which might choose another system, to buy the Nikon product. If i would not have a D300 already I would be happy to buy the new model with video, I think it's a nice way to give some new feature to an already good model which has been on the market for a couple of years and does not really need a replacement yet.
    ciao
    Marco
     
  36. I'm sure the lack of Manual mode is for the video, not photos.
    I really appreciate the dual slots, I use SD now so it will really help when moving up from my D90 to D300s or D400... I can get a few CF cards for when I need to write to two cards on an important shoot, and can continue to use all my SD cards instead of a huge switch to CF. Really a perfect transitional point for the future which I assume will be all SD.
    I'm hoping the new 70-200 drives the price down on the old one... :) I could care less about corner sharpness, but I can't afford the price right now.
    I'm also very interested in the frame rate of the D300s at 14 bit...
     
  37. "Odd decision, to use a mixed combination of card slots."
    Looks weird on the face of it, doesn't it, but a lot of printer devices have convenient SD slots, as does the new macbook pro. Plus you get the real convenience of being able to use a micro-SD card in an adapter, and thus be able to quickly upload a JPEG via any decent internet-connected mobile phone.
     
  38. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    The Canon 1D and 1Ds series high-end DSLRs have had dual CF and SD memory card slots for a few generations, but Nikon chose the dual CF option for the D3 family.
    The thing about SD cards is that they are still a bit slower than CF cards. I wonder whether it'll take a little longer to clear the buffer if one uses dual CF and SD. In that sense I prefer dual CF for sports and action photography.
     
  39. Please Ikka clarify that you were referring only to the video mode
    Right, I was talking about the D-movie mode. While I'm only assuming the D-movie mode doesn't have independent manual ISO & shutter speed control, the fact that 1) it's a highly desirable feature, 2) it isn't available on the D5000 or D90, and 3) Nikon doesn't advertise manual control in the material available so far on the D300s leads me to make a fairly safe guess that since it's not mentioned, it's not there. Correct me if anyone has contrary information. Canon fixed this problem with a firmware update to the 5D Mk II and advertised it quite a bit, but Nikon has issued no such firmware fixes to their existing D-movie capable cameras.
    The decision to go SD on the 2nd slot is understandable, but it's a little problematic for me. I don't own any SD card cameras so to get backups at events (assuming that I will use the D300s) I will need to buy yet more card space which I cannot then take advantage of on my FX cameras. Card space, no matter how much you have, tends to run out. Having two incompatible formats means that at some point I will need to turn off the backup feature on the D300s or switch to the D3 just to get backups while losing the DX reach and video feature. Ok, since I use FX for the majority of events anyway, it may be sufficient to buy one 16 GB SD card for use as a backup device on the D300s, but it's still an additional cost and frankly the D300s isn't that big - they could have made space for a second CF card slot. Without doubt though the SD card slot may make the D300s more attractive as an upgrade to people with existing SD card cameras.
     
  40. Shun, do you have information about when you'll have a D300s for testing? A local store in Finland advertises they'll have the D300s, including bod only and kits with either 16-85 or 18-200 v. II, from 28 August. The 70-200 II isn't available until September or October, according to this store's information.
     
  41. Ack, Nikon put the D700 style card door on the D300s. No thanks. That was opening up by accident nearly every time I took the camera out of the case. I do like the center OK button but on the D300 (and D200) the entire multi-controller can be depressed to do the same thing. And two CF card slots would have been preferable over a CF and SD card slot. Guess they're trying to make it easier for users to trade up. And reducing the rubber grip to put in a speaker for audio playback. Uh... The one button Live View is nice though, and if it can focus and shoot without having to drop the mirror, I'm impressed.
     
  42. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Ilkka, I wonder why you care about all of this at all. You are not buying a D300s anyway, are you?
    One thing we need to keep in mind is that in order to share the same MB-D10 vertical grip/battery pack, the D300s' footprint is pretty much fixed. Therefore, it is not all that easy to make the D300s a bit larger to accomodate dual CF cards.
    If you read Nikon's article about designing the D700, you'll realize that they spend a lot of effort to limit the D700's size so that it can also use the MB-D10, although the D700 needs a bigger mirror inside because it is FX. As a result, the D700 is taller than the D300 but Nikon manages to give it the same footprint.
    As I mentioned earlier, Hannah Thiem has been talking to Nikon USA for a few weeks. It looks like they have no D300s or new 70-200 for us to test yet, but I should be getting a D3000 very soon. Except for the video mode and dual memory cards, I would say the D300s is 99% the same as the D300 (please don't take that percentage too literally). The many people with NAS in this forum not withstanding, I would imagine that most D300 owners will not upgrade to the D300s.
     
  43. Shun, for its capabilities in close-up photography, and for the video, I do care, and might buy one. While I generally prefer my FX cameras for people photography, for close-up photography I am currently limited to 1:2 when I use the tilt on the 85mm PC-E and on FX the corresponding objects are still quite large. I would like to photograph smaller objects while retaining the tilt capability: Hence DX. The D200 I had wasn't quite "it" as while the image quality in macro was very high, it doesn't have live view which I found very useful for focusing in close-up work. so I sold it with the idea that later on I'll get a DX model with live view. I am interested in the video feature for theatrical / concert / wedding photography in low light. Yes, you can argue that a proper video camera would be a more sensible choice - but in my experience the small consumer camcorders don't have adequate dynamic range even outdoors in the sun (looks quite harsh with easily blown highlights and pitch dark shadows), and give a noisy image in high contrast stage light. I would be looking at the 3000€ price category to get a mid-range camcorder that can give good results in these conditions if I went for a Canon XL H1 or something like that. With DSLR video I would not only get good low light performance, but also the option of video in the macro world, which I find intriguing. I have no illusion of being able to produce BBC nature films by myself. It's just something that I find fascinating and I happen to have the required lenses for my DSLRs, so all I'd have to do is plug in the camera and see what I can do. Macro is an area which hasn't conventionally been available to amateur video shooters.
    My friends keep telling me that there's no way I will have time to edit video to produce a high quality result, so I should forget about it. Maybe they're right, but it's tempting. ;-)
    I have a plan B also for the close-ups with tilt. A bag bellows with tilt along with a PB-4 for greater magnifications, together with specialized macro lenses, but that requires a lot of work in the design and implementation. No doubt this would result in higher quality results than using the 85 PC-E which seems to peak at lower magnifications, but the use of a bellows in the field is ... well, a challenge of its own.
     
  44. To clarify, the bag bellows would be put into a smaller, home-made bellows device. The PB-4 is an existing solution though not always that easy to find, but it can't be used with very short extensions such as needed when operating the 85mm between 1:2 and 1:1.
     
  45. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    If you are only getting 1:2 macro on FX, it'll still be 1:2 on DX although the D300/D300s will give you denser pixels than the D3/D700 or even the D3X.
    As I mentioned in the preview, one feature I really would like to have is a swivel screen, as it would be extremely helpful for any low-angle macro or landscape shots (or for that matter high-angle overhead shots). The trade off is that the screen will have to be a bit smaller to accomodate the frame around it. Hopefully some future so called "D700x" will have all of those features, including higher pixel density and the FX sensor, but expect to pay for all of those features should they become available.
     
  46. I was hoping to see a D400 this Fall, not a re-packaged D300. All of this video mode is nice, I guess, but it doesn't turn me on - I don't need another Swiss Army knife. I would rather the effort and technolory go into improvements, such as noise reduction, sensitivity, tonal range, or such.
    The new 70-200mm f2.8 lens is something that interests me, however. If I can't afford it, maybe the old lens will come down a bit.
     
  47. Goodbye D40....Gone are the days of a 1/500th flash sync choice. Anybody have any ideas as to why the more modern cameras are all limited to a slower sync speed?
     
  48. I have one of those silly questions....
    What's a CFII card? There's thicker & thinner CF cards??? I've missed something. All I know is that I read that there's no comparability to the thicker cards. And what's this idea of putting in a slot for an SD card......
    I like the second slot - but for an SD card??? What a waste of space - -
    OK this is Nikon's way of bringing in/up the consumer buyers to make them move up - - but for me - - what a waste of time. :-(
    I'm not happy - - I was looking forward to a D400 with more MP etc. This is not what I wanted. :-( I'm disappointed.
    As for the 70-200VR - - well I better sell mine immediately before it loses it's value. :-( Well I was considering doing that anyhow..... :-( So I guess I'll be putting it on eBay before my sister arrives next week. :-( Ah well......
    I guess I'll be waiting on the D700x & skipping this round.
     
  49. Now it will be harder to sell my old 18-200...any idea what the price will be like on the new version? If they raised it significantly, maybe things are not so bad as I think.
     
  50. I'm a D300 and can honestly say that there is no way that I will upgrade to the D300S, but that should not be surprise :)
    Dual card slot is good, but having two card types does add a lot of hassle. Still, Nikon probably did the maths and figured that adding the SD slot costs so little that better go for it.
    It was too bad that many rumor sites kept pushing that roadmap to generate traffic to their sites even though it was very clear that it was mainly nonsense plus some well known leaks such as the D300s.​
    I work for a tech company and know that the vast majority of these "leaks" are rather dubious, so I share your frustration.
    My friends keep telling me that there's no way I will have time to edit video to produce a high quality result, so I should forget about it.​
    You are going to notice that high quality video is a huge time and money sink... people don't realize this. It's good to think about how many home videos does one see that are actually interesting? You could ask some of those contributors at YouTube who actually make their own videos and do it well how much time they put on it. Just trying to make sure you really understand what you're getting into ;-)
    It would be cool if photo.net would IR modify their D3000, but I bet Nikon would not like it. In my country Nikon actually says that they will not perform any IR mods, which I think is a bit ridiculous, since everyone taking such a mod knows they're voiding the warranty.
     
  51. Wow, coming from a D200, this looks pretty good. The silencer mode looks really intriguing. The ability to AF during video is awesome compared to the D90. I'd rather have an SD slot rather than nothing for backup. Hopefully they retained the same body feel as the D200/300?
    I'd have to disagree with Shun on the swivel screen. Though it's nice for macro, overhead shots and such, the robustness of the camera would be impacted. After playing with the D5000 swivel a bit, I would see that getting broken off in the field, getting sand in it or otherwise.
    Ilkka - I agree on the video quality compared to a dedicated camcorder. I balance that with having to carry another camcorder around or a small digisnap to capture video at all vs having at all in a D300s. The 5 minute shoot time isn't much different from the Sony EX-1 with 8 minutes. Small, solid state storage still doesn't compete against tape or large disks for long recording. It's a space issue. And since the D300s records in AVI, I assume the it's the 4GB barrier that's the killer? Maybe Nikon can upgrade to open another file while recording and keep going, limited only by CF card size?
    Maybe there will be a D700s with 1080p video soon?
     
  52. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Aaron, my wife has been using camcorders with swivel screens since the mid 1990's. There has never been any issue with the mechanics of the screens. I have played around with the D5000 at Costco, and it seems ok. I am sure Nikon can do a better job on such screens on high-end DSLRs.
     
  53. @ Lil re: CF - see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompactFlash
    @Joe re: 1/500s flash sync: only achievable with an electronic shutter which apparently causes "blooming" - maybe it'll return as technology progresses.
     
  54. Regarding the new camera announcements...I was expecting Nikon to add video capability to their cameras, now that Canon has. I would guess that within a year or so, we'll see video available on all models, but this is just speculation.
    I was NOT expecting them to release a trimmed-down D5000 with video and swivel screen removed. That is a complete surprise, and a little confusing. Doesn't this D3000 now compete more or less directly with the D60?
     
  55. And since the D300s records in AVI, I assume the it's the 4GB barrier that's the killer? Maybe Nikon can upgrade to open another file while recording and keep going, limited only by CF card size?​
    4GB per file is a FAT32 file size limitation. It's unlikely that memory cards will ever move off FAT32 for compatability reasons.
    Some alternatives would be to split it off into another file and join the files together on a PC (on NTFS or ext3, etc.) or better compression on the fly which would require a much better in-camera processor.
     
  56. Dieter - thank you , basically this makes no difference to me I suspect. All my cards except for one are Extreme IV so I doubt this will affect me for the future.
    Still leaves me to make the final decision on the 70-200VR though.... and I see no reason to go to the D300s - video can be fun with a stalking bird...... But not something I really need.
    Lil :)
     
  57. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    As far as I know both the D40 and D60 are/will be discontinued. Essentially the D5000 and D3000 replace those two, but all the features have shifted upward. That is, the entry level has gone from the 6MP, 3-AF-point D40 to the 10MP, 11-AF-point D3000.
    My D3000 preview has a table detailing all the major feature differences among the D5000, D3000, and D40: http://www.photo.net/equipment/nikon/D3000/preview/
     
  58. Not good or bad, just interesting updates. At least nobody will have to think about up-grading to these models for a couple of years.
     
  59. This may seem a bit OCD, but I like the new model numbering system. 4 digit = consumer, 3 digit = prosumer, 1 digit = pro, 2 digit = old numbering system. It makes the distinction between tiers and features much more clear cut to the average consumer in my opinion.
     
  60. Nothing compelling on the D300s...video is a big minus...dual card slot would be interesting, except that I've never had a CF card go south and I have had SD cards go south, so they seem a poor backup to me. This is going to put some pressure on buying a second D300 as a backup, however. Hopefully prices will fall, not rise, for the D300...
     
  61. Shun - thanks for the previews.
    Something is puzzling me about the D3000. In the comparison table (D60, D5000 and D3000) on dpreview the D3000 is shown as not having Automatic Chromatic Aberration Correction whereas both the D60 which it replaces and the D5000 do.
    I thought that CA correction was a feature of Expeed Image Processing which the D60 has (its predecessor the D40x didn't and consequently didn't have CA correction) as does the D3000.
    If the D3000 really does lack this feature then it is a step backwards. However I suspect that dpreview's table is wrong.
    Please can you throw any light on this matter?
    Thanks,
    Robin
     
  62. If you look at DPreview's chart again, the D60 does not have automatic CA correction.
     
  63. I've got a D300.
    If I want to use SD cards I've got my D50.
    I got video out of my system in the 1980s.
    Why would I want to spend $1,800 on a D300S?
     
  64. William - must be something wrong with my eyesight! I guess I saw what I expected to see as it was my understanding that CA correction was something that came with Expeed Image Processing - which my D40x doesn't have.
     
  65. I see nothing really interesting in today's news. The only way I'd consider upgrading is if/when Nikon offers a mid level ($1500) camera body with the ISO perfprmance of the D3. That would be cool.
     
  66. Just curious... why do you think nikon keeps the d300 on its website after it releases the new d300s, since they are both priced the same?
     
  67. It should prove to be very popular with people that want vidio and such, and the D300 might come down in price and possibly putting the camera within range for a few people. It does seem that camera's have pretty much reached the peak of development as the new camera's are now focusing more on the extra gadgets. I am sure it will be a very popular model especially since the camcorder function will auto focus.
     
  68. Isn't the D300s the first video-capable Nikon compatable with the WT4(a) WiFi transmitter? I'm hoping to hear more about the D300s and CCP 2, especially whether the D300s with WT4a will transmit just small .jpgs while storing large RAW files in-camera. My D300 and WT4a don't facilitate this-- but my understanding is that the D3 and D3X with dual card slots do. (This feature alone might bet get me to trade up).
    Love the DX format for use with my 200-400VR.
     
  69. bmm

    bmm

    rossb -
    "it does seem that cameras have pretty much reached the peak of development"

    Nah. That's naive. Look at what the car industry does. They launch what they call a new model every 2 years but in reality the real leaps only happen every 3rd or 4th time.
    I have no doubt that Nikon has developed new sensor, AF etc platforms that set up its product path for the next decade or more. But they won't launch them immediately as commercially there is still a lot of milking to do of the current platforms including through "bells and whistles" product extensions like we have seen with the D300s. Plus, its always good to have a few trump cards up the sleeve for if Canon flinches first and goes public with some new level of capability.
     
  70. RL Potts [​IMG] , Jul 30, 2009; 02:48 p.m. (edit | delete )
    Not good or bad, just interesting updates. At least nobody will have to think about up-grading to these models for a couple of years.​
    Optimism. I admire that.
    But realistically, I'd give it 6 months, tops, before someone begins whining for an updated D3000XXX or a third generation 70-200/2.8 Mach V.
     
  71. If the current D300 eventually drops in price like the D200 did (around $600.00 at some places before it disappeared) I would certainly be interested in adding a second one to my collection. The D300 is a great camera and the D300S offers nothing in the way of improvements that interest me.
     
  72. @Ben - My local shop has the new 18-200 listed for pre-order on their site for $849. the D3000 with kit lens for $599, the 70-200 for $2399, and the D300s for $1799.
     
  73. The lack of live view on the D3000 is in my opinion a tremendous mistake. I'm sure it's something related to the 10mp sensor not being able to work with it easily, but they still should have just made it work.
     
  74. "it does seem that cameras have pretty much reached the peak of development"

    Nah. That's naive. Look at what the car industry does. They launch what they call a new model every 2 years but in reality the real leaps only happen every 3rd or 4th time.​
    You may be correct. But we shall see what happens. I wish the camera manufacturers would make a camera with a higher sync speed, a native ISO 100 and a wider dynamic range but they do not seem to be able to progress in area's that I am interested in.. As far as camera gadgets go I am not really interested in bothering with them. I just picked up a real nice scanner so I thought I would put my D200 away for a while and shoot a couple hundred rolls of film. I was scanning some of my old stuff tonight and I guess I must have forgot how nice whites that are not blown can look. My wife is very happy because I am scanning slides taken at our wedding 30 yrs ago. They look real nice. I think I am most likely headed towards a medium format and away from the sensor type camera. I think it will provide me with more enjoyment and the large negative will scan very nice for my landscape photography. I can always use the D200 for snapshots and such.
     
  75. Can anyone offer more information on the quiet shutter mode? If the shutter can be made more quiet, why not have this on all the time? What's the downside - lower frame rate?
     
  76. I have a D300 and a D200, so I probably won't be buying a D300s. But if I did, I would probably use the CF slot for storing my still photos and the SD slot (with a Class 6 SDHC card) to capture any HD video I took with the camera.
    I have personally found it to be a bit of a pain, housekeeping/workflow wise, downloading and cataloging still images and video clips I've shot with some of my P&S digital cameras that do HD video. One reason is because Lightroom doesn't yet handle (or import) video files from digital cameras. So it would be great to sidestep this issue by storing any video clips I would take with a D300s on a separate card from my still photos. That way it would be more straight-forward managing the two separate types of files. I would import my still photos from the compact flash card into Lightroom, and manage my video clips with a dedicated video application like iMovie or Final Cut Express.
     
  77. I think that it is not the intention to bring people to upgrade from D300 to D300s: Why would somebody do this at the present, given the bad world-wide economics? Your photographs won't get significantly better only by having the newer model. But think about people who now consider buying a new camera, and these people think perhaps that D300 is already slightly dated (which of course is not true), because it has no video and other gimmicks that are found in cameras of other brands. So how to attract the newbies? By keeping your product line up-to-date. With respect to the D3000, this is simply the need for staying competitive in the rapidly evolving low-cost segment. To stay low-cost, they hardly couldn't afford to develop new sensors etc. You preferably will use what you know, and you know how it works, and in this way it is possible to come up with a "new" product at low cost. So, everything to me makes pefectly sense under these considerations.
     
  78. I think I should post something here!
    It's funny, yesterday I had a long drive and on the way I was thinking about the video function on the new cameras.... I am not against it but I don't care about it. I don't really like videos... that's all. So what I was thinking is if there was a better function to be add to a DSLR instead of video... per instance a second card slot, or better body seal, 100% viewfinder, etc. Something that would be useful to photography instead of a video. Then at night I got to my hotel and read about the new stuff coming up...
    One question.... personally I used SD cards on my D80 and CF cards on my D300. I never had a problem with either type of cards but somehow I feel more secure using CF cards. They are bigger there for less chances to loose them. They look more solid to me but I am not so sure about those little pins. Over all, I still prefer CF cards. So my question, is one type better than the other? And why?
     
  79. The only benefit I can see coming from this announcement is a price reduction for the D300.
     
  80. Can anyone offer more information on the quiet shutter mode? If the shutter can be made more quiet, why not have this on all the time? What's the downside - lower frame rate?​
    The D5000 has a quiet mode as well. I believe it slows down the motor mechanisms so there's not as much mirror slap, but adds in shutter delay for a marginal benefit.
    I wish the camera manufacturers would make a camera with a higher sync speed, a native ISO 100 and a wider dynamic range but they do not seem to be able to progress in area's that I am interested in.
    To stay low-cost, they hardly couldn't afford to develop new sensors etc. You preferably will use what you know, and you know how it works, and in this way it is possible to come up with a "new" product at low cost. So, everything to me makes pefectly sense under these considerations.​
    There are two things that people need to take in consideration. First of all, Sony makes the sensors and thus certain features such as a wider dynamic range and ISO 100 are dependent on Sony's progress. Sure Nikon can tweak the hell out of the sensors which is how you see improvements over the years, but some things are fundamentally a sensor problem (like the light gathering potential per pixel, etc.). On a side note, I believe Canon uses Sony sensors as well. Canon seems content in tweaking for more megapixels, while Nikon has been tweaking for better ISO performance.
    If you absolutely need high speed sync, Pocket Wizards sync up to 1/8000 now. I still think high speed sync is a niche feature as 1/250 is fast enough for most photographers.
    Chip development roadmaps are planned at the minimum 3-4 years down the road. When R&D has come up with new technology and it rolls off the fab plants a few years later, it does no good for the company to sit on new features burning a hole in its pockets regardless of the economy.
    The D300s is not aimed at current D300 (or even D200) owners. It is aimed at D80/D90 users looking to move up models. It offers dual slots (great!) while allowing people to use whatever format card they prefer. It offers backup for wedding shooters that previously was limited to the D3. If you don't have SD or CF cards, you don't have to use the second slot. I am able to swap out CF cards fast enough during an event as is, it's just a bonus feature.
    I'd argue that most photo.net members are interested in photography only and have no desire for video capabilities on DSLR. However I have helped a few friends buy DSLRs over the past year or so, as well as browsed non-photography forums talking about DSLRs. Video is a big thing to people making the jump to DSLRs. They have it on their phone, they have it on their point and shoot, they want it on their DSLR.
    I keep recommending used or older cameras to new DSLR owners, but inevitably they always jump to the 500D or D90 because "they have to have video." Corporations are most interested in generating revenue, it just so happens they make cameras.
     
  81. Peter: you are absolutely right on with the comment about Lightoom and workflow. Having two slots will make it easier: use one card for photos and import with lightroom; a second card for video and import with Nikon Transfer. I am too cheap to buy a second card though!
     
  82. From a technicians perspective, and to answer some of the SD card criticism, plus SD vs. CF questions;
    I've seen quite a few CF card issues arise recently. (Canon mainly but some Nikons)
    Because of the male/female design of these CF cards, as it relates to their holes, you have;
    1. Tolerance variations. (Cheaply made cards)
    2. Debris contamination (Dust or grit)
    3. Moisture/humidity adhesion. (Corrosion, growth residue or temperature extreme)
    These pin "holes", as compared to the contact "lands" of the SD cards, are and have been (In a devastating way) more problematic to the camera bodies.
    For these numbered reasons, CF card holes are getting ever so slightly jammed or stuck to the camera pin it mates to, and when the unsuspecting photographer quickly pushes the leveraged manual eject, this mated pin comes up with the CF card, which can sometimes then release itself. The pin, with the damage already done, is now in a precarious and critical position. Next to impossible to detect the pending doom; this photographer introduces the next CF card, which bends and flattens the pin that then shorts out the neighboring pins... (Camera usually dies at this point, because juice has gone where it shouldn't) NUTS !!!
    For all the comparatively minor problems, SD cards by design, will not have the possibility of leaving you with a dead camera caused by that card. If the SD card is bad, camera still works, just slide in another one.
    So, buy quality cards, keep them clean and regularly pull them out slowly...
     
  83. I was waiting to pull the trigger on a video-capable DSLR because of the manual focus. I had been pricing HD camcorders, but the DOF of 2.8 lenses is much better looking. I think it's time to sell my D200 and two D300's to upgrade to the D300s. I like the dual memory card slot, it will make putting slideshows together at the reception a piece of cake. RAW to CF card, JPEGs to SD card, pop the card into a LCD tv and done. Maybe video to SD card. When the D700 revision comes out, if it has any dual card slots, I'll buy that too and sell my D700. I'll probably end up with the new 70-200 too. The 14-24 and 24-70 are awesome lenses and the 70-200 is good, but the vignetting is annoying.
    I wonder if I can pre-order yet? :)
     
  84. While the pin problem exists with the CF card pins, the cards themselves are robust while the SD cards seem very flimsy and easy to misplace. I think the CF card size and hard enclosure is preferable. If there was a widespread problem with pins breaking then professionals wouldn't be using these cards, right?
     
  85. Well, its the CF card "tight tolerance holes" that are at issue here, not the robust question. I've spoken to quite a few disparate & ticked off professionals...
    The semi-pros are very angry that they can't get their cameras back fast (With a loaner) in a factory warranty situation, because they don't qualify for "VIP" Pro treatment...
     
  86. "... while the SD cards seem very flimsy and easy to misplace."
    And if I may add in your climate Ilkka you must prefer the CF cards when handling at low winter temperatures. I once tried to change a SD card of a friend's camera at -20°C - never will do again :p
    I can change CF cards even with gloves :)
     
  87. bmm

    bmm

    I do agree in general with Gus questioning the pin interface of the CF cards though guys. All other things aside it is a much more delicate interface than that of the SD.
    I once remember an almost nonsensical conversation with a guy here who was paranoid about storage of images while on holidays, even though he was likely to take only 8 to 10GB in total. And when I got to the bottom of why he was making no sense, the real reason was that he was super-worried about a dodgy pin in his camera which meant that he flatly refused to change out his primary card and therefore did all sorts of acrobatics with hard drives, USB cables etc because that 2GB of memory wasn't going anywhere. Whether in reality or psychologically, this issue was costing him the option of just having 3-4 4GB cards and getting on with enjoying himself.
     
  88. Well,it looks like finally there is an entry level Nikon that I might buy.I has been saving a bit of money to buy a D40,mainly because I like the 1/500 sync flash speed,but was a bit reluctant yet because the only 3 points focus areas. This D5000 have a nice LCD, 11 points focus points and 10.2 megapixels.Too bad the flash sync speed is not 1/500,but you can't have everything in an entry level camera.
    With all these features and the kit lens is quite a bargain.I'll bite.
    RPA
     
  89. A pity that you need to rob a bank in order to buy the new 70-200.
    For the old 70-200 you only needed to rob a money exchange office :).
     

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