Nikon F3HP vs. FM2N

<p>Hello,<br>

I'm looking for some opinions on which of these two cameras would be "better" for me or if there is a third option and wanted to know if anyone has personal experience with either? I'd like to stick with Nikon as I've heard they're very reliable and readily available should a fix be needed. I'm looking for a 35mm slr and I'm looking at manual focus, mainly for size. I'd like to have an slr that I can toss in my bag and carry around all the time. I see both of these cost around $200-$300 used so they're comparable price wise. My main priorities are fast shutter speed, portability and some good lenses as it will be used for street photos mostly. Overall I'm kind of leaning towards the FM2N as it gives seems to score higher in these aspects, although the F3HP seems to have such a loyal following I'd love to hear what I'd be missing out on if I chose the FM2N. I've very rarely ever use flash. The only thing that I can see as a draw back for the FM2N is less selection of lenses I believe I read somewhere. Any help is appreciated!<br>

Matt</p>

<p>Except for a few special lenses that require the mirror-lock up of the F3, every lens that can be mounted on it also fits the FM2N. Choosing the FM2N you loose the aperture-priority automatic exposure of the F3 as well as the option to change viewfinders (not sure that's important to you at all). Metering is a little more geared towards spot-metering on the F3 (80:20 vs 60:40). The FM2N can run totally without batteries - the F3 can not. The flash sync speed is much higher on the FM2N than on the F3 - which can be important in particular for fill-flash applications. </p>

<p>I have exactly those two models and can't say I have any preference overall. Each is slightly better at specific tasks however.</p>

<p>For nighttime or available light low light photography from a tripod, I'd pick the F3HP for the brighter viewfinder. However, the F3's gray LCD meter display is only slightly better than meh. For handheld candid photography I might pick the FM2N for the much better red LED metering display. And the FM2N finder is very good at night - I've had no problem getting sharp focus at night on the street or in theater and nightclub performances. The F3HP is top notch but the FM2N is by no means inferior.</p>

<p>Lens selection isn't a real factor. The F3HP can accept non-AI lenses with stop down metering, but that shouldn't be considered a real asset. It's a sort of cobbled-on, compromise way of using pre-AI lenses. If you want to make maximum use of pre-AI Nikkors, get an F2 or Nikkormat with a working meter.</p>

<p>Some folks make a big deal about build quality. I have no real preference there either. The F3HP is very good, but the FM2N isn't inferior. The FM-series are a little lighter in weight, more compact due to the smaller prism, but still very well made. I'd compare the build quality of the FM2N to the Olympus OM-series (I've also used the OM-1 and OM-2N), so it's very good.</p>

<p>If you plan to use a motor drive, the F3 is the better choice. The F3 and MD-4 offers power rewind; the FM2N and MD-12 works great for advancing the film quickly, but offers only hand-rewinding.</p>

<p>If I had to choose one over the other... I couldn't. I'd be satisfied with either.</p>

<p>Thanks Dieter, I can live without different viewfinders, although I do wear glasses from time to time so the HP would help in those cases.... </p>

<p>Thanks Lex, it's a tough choice, they both seem like great cameras at decent prices. In terms of volume and weight, is the F3HP that much bigger or heavier?</p>

<p>As much as I've loved the FM series cameras since their 70's introduction. I've always thought that Nikon dropped the ball regarding the viewfinder. Olympus set the standard with it's miniaturized OM cameras. And Nikon made a smaller body to compete. But Olympus created an outstanding viewfinder, and built the camera around it. Nikon FM series cameras, one's eye has to look up/down,right/left to see the entire frame. Great camera, crappy viewfinder.</p>

<p>Zoom forward to the F3 HP's introduction and you have viewfinder heaven, but in a much larger and heavier package then the FM2n.</p>

<p>The main size difference between the two is in the prism. The F3HP prism is a big hunk, tho' not quite as hefty as the metering prims on the original F. Apart from the prisms the body dimensions aren't that different, tho' the F3 has a slight finger swell grip on the right side. Theres something like a 6-7 oz difference in weight, which is really only noticeable with the naked bodies or when only a small prime is mounted, like a 50mm normal lens.</p>

<p>Another factor to consider is condition. A used camera isn't much of a bargain if it needs a CLA, or even replacement foam and light seals. If you can find a recent model F3HP for the same price it's a very good value. Mine was old and battered when I bought it used almost 10 years ago, and still works very well. The FM2N was nearly new when I bought it and still looks very good. But the FM2N is among the more recent of Nikon's manual focus bodies (only the FM3A is newer among the bodies Nikon actually manufactured, which doesn't include the Cosina-made FM10). With both of mine the mirror rebound foam pads are still in good shape, tho' the door hinge seals are getting a bit gummy.</p>

<p>Occasionally folks will tout the benefits of better dust/weather seals on Nikon's pro bodies like the F3. And that's true, but not with a 20 year old body. Seals deteriorate, shrink and harden. So don't count on the seals in a 20 y/o F3 being any better than a more recently made FM2N. And unless you're routinely shooting in a dusty desert or damp jungle, it's irrelevant. My home in Texas has some interesting shifts in climate and I don't baby my equipment, but it's held up just fine so far. Only the MD-4 occasionally gets balky, but the F3HP it came with keeps chugging along despite looking like it was trampled by a bull.</p>

<p>One other question, are you familar with what you look for as far as serial numbers and which are more preferable than others for each camera? I suppose I could assume the higher the serial number the newer it is...</p>

<p>Since I feel like the fm2n might fit the bill for what I'm looking for, is there anything I would be sorely missing if I got the f3hp? For some reason the F3hp has some allure, maybe that it's big and chunky and the crazy viewfinders!</p>

<p>Well I'm thinking you're not going to give them the type of abuse I did when I had them, but the F3HP held up very well for me. Aside from replacing the lens mount a few times from crashing, it ran flawless. Finally I broke the whole motor and everything off the bottom and I traded it in at a repair shop for a lens I wanted. The FM2 pair I had was so-so and the one ended up several times in Nikon for repairs I felt shouldn't have happened. I had the winding mechanism fail, the shutter failed and the motor and motor linkage failed. I also never liked the viewfinder or the idea that without the motor the little winding lever used to be out wacking my glasses. Got rid of those for N90, honestly one of the absolute best Nikons in my opinion. I still have my first one, it is well beat up and runs beautiful. So having had these formany miles, I say look at the N90.</p>

<p>The F3hp was made from 1986-2004, so cameras can be much newer than 20 years. It costs about $150 to replace the mirror foam and CLA the camera at Authorized Camera Service in Morton Grove.</p>

<p>Except for the shutter and mirror noise, the F3hp handles and feels like a Leica - smooth as glass and precise. The TTL metering is accurate and predictable. I don't use mine much any more, but I can't bear to part with this gem.</p>

<p>The F3HP is my favorite camera, hands down. It's not the <em>best</em> manual focus 35 mm SLR by a long shot (that would be the OM-4T, IMO), but the combination of excellent metering, rock-solid construction and the HP finder (I wear glasses) make it a joy to use. Plus, it's not really that bulky without the motordrive. The downside - F3's are getting old, and if/when the electronics go, I imagine the fix will be neither easy nor cheap. While the finder is great, the finder display isn't that hot - small, almost unusable in dark conditions (the Nikon designers appear to have designed the display illuminator after having downed their own body weight in sake). The FM2N is smaller/lighter, newer and, while I don't consider battery dependence to be a big disadvantage, dependence on aging electronics can be - if the FM2N meter packs up, it'll still be usable. The lack of rewind in the FM's MD-12 drive is a tiny disadvantage - otherwise, the MD-12 is a great, reliable motordrive - not quite as fast as the F3's formidable MD-4, but almost as good. Lens compatibility is almost a wash - so the FM2N can't use non-AI lenses - you wouldn't <em>want</em> to use them on the F3 either. If you're interested in "aging" an F3, just google "nikon F3 serial numbers" or go directly to http://www.nikonf3.com/nikon-f3-serial-numbers/, where you'll find everything you ever wanted too know about the F3. My F3HP, bought on ebay, is #1718XXX, which places it around the beginning of 1986 (production ran from 1980 to ~2001, I believe). Rather arbitrarily, if I was looking for another F3 body, I certainly wouldn't buy one older than this, but I have seen newer models that were in way crappier condition - mine was a lab. camera which spent it's life on a copy stand, so it's in great condition considering its age. I paid $200 for it, which seems to be about the going rate for a good F3HP. I imagine a good FM2N will go for around the same. My son uses my old FM/MD-12 which looks like someone (not me!!) took a hammer to it, but it works perfectly. I have no doubt that the FM2N is just as bulletproof.<br /> I would compare/contrast the F3HP and the FM2N as follows:<br /> F3HP - almost indestructible, great metering with aperture priority, fabulous finder for glasses wearers, but crappy display, heavier and getting a bit long in the tooth (but what teeth!!)<br /> FM2N - smaller/lighter, newer, maybe not <em>quite</em> as robust as the F3, but still wicked tough <em>and</em> battery independent, good display, and decent finder</p>

<p>Used both cameras and still own the FM2n. I wear glasses and the main problem of the FM2n for me is that I am unable to see the entire viewfinder and light meter at one go. What I have done is to look more at the light meter and estimate the side of the frame that I cannot see.</p>

<p>The pros for the FM2n for me are the light meter is really easy to see under low light, it is lighter than the F3HP and smaller. Somehow, I find the split prism in the FM2n to be easier to use than on the F3HP.</p>

<p>The pros for the F3HP for me are the smoothness of the film winder (not a big deal but I just love the smoothness), all the data (shutter speed, aperture, light meter) are located at the top of the viewfinder (the FM2n is scattered, the light meter is on the right, aperture at the top and the shutter speed on the left) and that it has aperture priority and lock.</p>

<p>Unless you have a lot of non-Ai lenses or intend to get them, the lens selection is not that big an issue. If you no not need the aperture priority function, your criteria seems to be calling for the FM2n.</p>

<p>I had both, sold both, and am now buying a F3 back. The main reason is handling, plus mirror slap and sound. I wear glasses too, but with the F3, I never had problems (while the FM2n viewfinder is a little bit too small). However, I got a DE-2 viewfinder (the smaller one) for my F3, which is smaller (easier for the kind of shooting you intend to do) and magnifies a little better than the DE-3 (at the cost of overview, but even with me wearing glasses, it's worlds better than the FM2n viewfinder. Mirror slap is much smoother on the F3 compared to the FM2n, and (also due to the camera being a bit heavier) better damped.</p>

<p>Compared to todays DSLR monsters, both of them are unconspicious. If you prefer chrome, than there is no choice (other than evenutally the F3 T, which at the beginning came out in a bright color), but if black is your favourite camera colour, I would go for the F3.</p>

<p>'Except for a few special lenses that require the mirror-lock up of the F3, every lens that can be mounted on it also fits the FM2N.' The F3 can mount non-AI lenses while the FMn cannot, but that shouldn't be a decisive factor as there is an abundance of AI and AIS lens available and there's no reason to futz w/ stop-down metering as it is easily avoided.</p>

<p>'...carry around all the time.' That sounds more like the FM2n. You also have an extra stop in shutter spd; FM2n min shttr spd = 1/4000 while F3 = 1/2000. Trying to read the F3 meter in low light is difficult, not to mention trying to depress the tiny button which illuminates the shttr spd/meter. One particularly nice, seldomly used, but very valuable feature when needed is the F3's fabulous ability to meter up to 30 seconds or so (or more?) in aperture priority. The max shtr spd of FM2n is 1 sec while the max manual spd on F3 is 8 sec . Generally not applicable to street-shots but worth knowing.</p>

<p>I suggest starting with the FM2n for reasons of size, weight and low-light meter-reading. Given the realtively modest cost for these bodies, set aside another few bucks over the coming year and get an F3 if you so desire. You, like many others, may find having two different films at the ready is advantageous. I shoot these two bodies (and others)...tough choice but good options.</p>

<p>I owned an FM, FM2, and FM2N and still own my now 28-year old F3 (on which I changed the original viewfinder to an HP version). I had forgotten that the FM2 versions cannot mount non-AI lenses - while the FM can. Though the LCD display in the F3 was supposed to have a lifetime of 7 years or so, mine is still doing fine - but it certainly is a weakness of this camera. The fact that I still have the F3 but sold all the FMs (and the FAs as well) shows which one I prefer; it's the only Nikon film camera I still own. The viewfinder is better, the film transport smoother and the camera just sounds better too (after a while I got downright annoyed by the sound of the FM/FM2). I already mentioned the different metering characteristics of the F3 - but not the fact that it may take some getting used to.<br>

Now, if I were to name my favorite manual focus Nikon film camera - that would be without a doubt the Nikon F4 (without the extra battery compartment at the bottom).</p>

<p>I also have&used both. I`d make my choice in base to this two features:<br /> 1. Aperture priority. The F3 is far more polyvalent, faster, forgiving than the FM2n. The lack of this feature always will ask you for a few seconds before each shot, something that could be highly relevant for some.<br /> 2. Weight (and size). The FM2n is noticeably lighter and a bit smaller, you can notice it if you look for a light weight camera.</p>

<p>All other specifications could be better or worse on each model for some specific uses, e.g. horizontal vs. vertical shutter courtain, battery powered vs. mechanical (>shutter speed accuracy over the time), removable vs smaller VF, etc. <br /> In my experience, I prefer to use the F3 for almost everything except for mountaneering and hiking, where the FM2n excels.</p>

<p><em>"Since I feel like the fm2n might fit the bill for what I'm looking for, is there anything I would be sorely missing if I got the f3hp?... "</em><br /> For sure; I bet most F3 users would like to have faster speeds (1/125 sync and 1/4000), non battery dependance and probably, a smaller package.</p>

<p>... and (I forgot), the finder display! (The +- indicator on the shutter display window is sometimes hard to read in comparison to the wonderful FM2n leds).</p>

<p>I've had an F2A and an FM2 and for me, the FM2 was the more fun camera - it is quite a bit lighter and shorter. The F2 (and I'm assuming the F3) are definitely a lot more solidly built and are the kind of cameras that if you drop them they will most likely dent the floor ;) </p>

<p>If its for travelling, grab the FM2. They're awesome little cameras - and if you really are looking for the smallest / lightest 35mm film SLR its also worth taking a look at the Olympus OM-1n / OM-2 series. Smaller than the FM2, lighter and with smaller lenses - but of equal optical quality. They're a bit cheaper than the Nikon stuff but just as good. You won't go wrong with an FM2 though! </p>

<p>Have and use both...still. The above info is all true and good so I'll just say one thing. I wear glasses. I cannot rell you how important it is to have the good eye relief of the F3HP. For me it's the critical difference.</p>

<p>" The FM2N can run totally without batteries - the F3 can not."<br>

This. If you're throwing it in your bag and carrying it around--or better yet, hanging it over the passenger seat of your vehicle, as I do mine--you need a camera that is low maintenence. I know I can pick up my FM2N and it will WORK, even if I have to guess on the exposure. Plus, it's smaller.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"...One particularly nice, seldomly used, but very valuable feature when needed is the F3's fabulous ability to meter up to 30 seconds or so (or more?) in aperture priority. The max shtr spd of FM2n is 1 sec while the max manual spd on F3 is 8 sec..."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It's been awhile since I used my F3 in auto mode for long exposure nighttime photography, but I recall that it would accurately meter and expose for several minutes. I remember setting up for nighttime photos in the country under a full moon, using the aperture priority AE mode, and the shutter would remain open for several minutes. A couple of times I'd walk back to the house for a refill of wine or beer, about 100 yards away, stroll back to the lakeside, and the shutter would still be open. At first I thought the shutter was stuck. But as long as the light didn't change significantly (sometimes a problem with cloud cover on windy nights), the exposures were remarkably accurate, with film reciprocity being the main challenge.</p>

<p>I have all the film cameras, beside the digitals, used them from the fist Nikon F ( I have a roll of b/w inside heading out right now + one of the FE2) Nikkormat, F2, FM, FE, FE2 FM2, FM3a, FA(one of the best), F3, F5. All of them build like a tank and the FE, FMs are very small cameras. The smallest and even more liked cameras by me is, my Olympus OM-1, 2 & 3. They are strong, even smaller jewels. But we talk about the Nikons here. The oldest of my Nikon F, only a prism, no meter, are 35+ year old, never serviced working perfectly, so is all of the others. The F3 & F5 is super, but heavy and big. The most practical for easy to move around is the FM or the FE. I prefer the FE because the pointer light meter inside. The safest is the FM, FM3a Working any situation, even if battery run flat for the light meter. In the FM bodies I have, and using them, battery was changed at list 5 years ago, or more. . . . . . My recommendation is an FM body. . . . . Lens? . . . Any lens, depending what do you like to shoot. You can buy a 24, 35, 105 or 135 and 200/4 AIs, for a couple of dollars. I usually skip the 50mm. The 35 is my standard lens all the time. All of those manual AI lenses are very sharp and darn solid build lenses. Zooms? 43-86/3.5 the latest black nosed, or 35-105 or 35-135. You can buy them like new, solid metal build made in Japan.</p>

<p>Thanks again for your help this is great! I think I now have sufficient info to say the FM2N is probably the best for me to start with and ultimately I can get the F3HP later on since they're both relatively cheap. Last 2 questions, any tips on dating a FM2N? Are there any lenses that would work on one but not the other if I end up getting both? I'd rather stick to lenses that can be used on both. I'm new to Nikon so I'm pretty basic in my understanding of non-AI, AI and AIS. From what I vaguely recall, the FM2N can use everything but non-AI and the F3HP can use everything but AIS lenses so that would lead me to believe I should stick with AI lenses. Can someone confirm this please?</p>

<p>The F3HP can use AIS lenses. The only lenses that the F3 can't use are the AF lenses without an aperture ring; the FM2 can't use these either. The only lenses that can be used on the F3 and not the FM2 are the pre AI lenses.</p>