Nikon D850, New $2500 [Sale Ended]

In the US, there is a short-term deep discount for the D850: $2496.95 new:

• https://www.adorama.com/inkd850.html
   
  
• Nikon D850 DSLR Camera (Body Only)
  

You can also get some memory card or battery at no additional cost.

Seasonal Sales or an inventory clearout?

 

Are people considering the Z7ii the D850's replacement?

Typically Nikon would discount the D850 during the holiday season, which probably starts around mid November as far as sales go. I assume they will throw in a "free" MB-D18 grip, but $2500 is the lowest I have seen for a new, Nikon USA D850. I have read some comments from the UK that prices maybe even lower across the Atlantic, but I am not sure that those are gray prices or not.

 

The thing is that this price makes the $2300 D780 look very expensive. Let's see how much discount the D780 will have.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised at all that Nikon will never introduce any more new F-mount cameras and lenses, and even if they do, there won't be more than 1 or 2 additional lenses. Their emphasis now is clearly the mirrorless Z mount. In two short years, Nikon has introduced 6 different bodies, 12 lenses and 2 teleconverters, mostly FX but a bit of DX.

Typically Nikon would discount the D850 during the holiday season, which probably starts around mid November as far as sales go. I assume they will throw in a "free" MB-D18 grip, but $2500 is the lowest I have seen for a new, Nikon USA D850. I have read some comments from the UK that prices maybe even lower across the Atlantic, but I am not sure that those are gray prices or not.

 

The thing is that this price makes the $2300 D780 look very expensive. Let's see how much discount the D780 will have.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised at all that Nikon will never introduce any more new F-mount cameras and lenses, and even if they do, there won't be more than 1 or 2 additional lenses. Their emphasis now is clearly the mirrorless Z mount. In two short years, Nikon has introduced 6 different bodies, 12 lenses and 2 teleconverters, mostly FX but a bit of DX.

 

So you think #6 is the last of the SLR? Last 35mm SLR and last DSLR.

Tempting - but I don't really feel the need to replace my D810.

Seasonal Sales or an inventory clearout?

 

Are people considering the Z7ii the D850's replacement?

 

The D850 is quite old now (3 years +) and may be due replacement at some point in the near future. I don't think the Z7 II is it, though, these are different cameras with different merits, drawbacks and lens lines and don't believe one is meant to replace the other. I'm looking forward to seeing the D850's DSLR replacement with AF and other features inherited from the D6.

 

I read somewhere a comment from a Nikon employee that Nikon don't have plans to change the strategy of developing both technologies in a few generations of cameras but that can of course change with changes in customer demand. I don't remember the exact words but perhaps for the next 5-7 years the current strategy would be followed.

Potentially, the D6 could be the very last F-mount SLR/DSLR Nikon would ever introduce, just like the F6 was the very last film SLR. Plans could change, of course, so that I am not sure even Nikon internally knows for sure.

 

The reality is that DSLRs have hit a plateau. Early this year, Nikon introduced the D6, four full years after the D5 without any intermediate "D5s" in between. Yet the improvements seem very incremental. The D5 is just so excellent that I find it difficult to justify a D6. Moreover, since the latest Nikon Z-mount lens roadmap indicates a 400mm and a 600mm lenses in 2022. I can only assume that those are 400mm/f2.8 and 600mm/f4, which imply a sports Z body will also appear by 2022, making it even more difficult to justify a D6 if it is going to be superseded in a mere 2 years.

 

Likewise, the D780 was introduced the past January, 5+ years after the D750. Again, at least I am not very impressed by the improvements. I am afraid that any future F-mount DSLR will be a tough sell as people migrate to mirrorless. Perhaps Nikon can introduce one more round in the D800 family, but one way or another IMO new F-mount bodies will come to an end in the nest couple of years.

 

Concerning this current D850 discount, I understand that it'll last until this coming Sunday or so. However, most likely the same deal or a better/different deal will emerge in another 2, 3 weeks during the holiday season.

If I could buy the D850 at the straight £/$ exchange rate, I'd consider replacing my falling-apart D800 with one.

 

But the UK discount would have to be a lot better than that to tempt me. Or an unconditional £500+ trade in offer. Throw in two free 128GB XQB or whatever they're called cards and a reader as well.

 

It's still just too expensive in the face of stiff competition. Anybody would think we're still riding an economic boom!

I would want to see what is the lowest price I can get a brand new D5 for. Well it seems that there is no more new D5 Edited October 30, 2020 by BeBu Lamar

I would want to see what is the lowest price I can get a brand new D5 for. Well it seems that there is no more new D5

 

Right, the D6 is the current model.

 

A discounted D850, if/when available in my region, would be appealing to me as I will need a spare high-resolution camera at some point but I'm betting there will be a D860, D870, or D880 and I don't want a pile of old models. Should it be discontinued without replacement then I would be buying a spare. I regret that I never bought the Df as I loved the concept of it (not so much the AF system) and it doesn't look likely there would be another model with similar user interface. I'd have been happy with the Advanced Multi-CAM 3500 II in a black Df housing. It does have another annoying feature which is that it doesn't share batteries with my other cameras. :-/ But I love how it feels in the hand, and the physical dials and the viewfinder.

Right, the D6 is the current model.

 

A discounted D850, if/when available in my region, would be appealing to me as I will need a spare high-resolution camera at some point but I'm betting there will be a D860, D870, or D880 and I don't want a pile of old models. Should it be discontinued without replacement then I would be buying a spare. I regret that I never bought the Df as I loved the concept of it (not so much the AF system) and it doesn't look likely there would be another model with similar user interface. I'd have been happy with the Advanced Multi-CAM 3500 II in a black Df housing. It does have another annoying feature which is that it doesn't share batteries with my other cameras. :-/ But I love how it feels in the hand, and the physical dials and the viewfinder.

 

And with the price drop the Df is the second most expensive in the line up for DSLR. The Z7 II is still more expensive but the Z7 is less expensive than the Df.

as I will need a spare high-resolution camera at some point

My dilemma too - though at the moment, I'd be a lot closer to purchasing a 2nd Sony A7RIII than a Nikon D850. My main issue though is that the chances of Nikon producing a D500 successor are slim to none (no matter whether DSLR or mirrorless). I wonder if I am the only one who is put off by the uncertainty in Nikon's path forward - I, for one, am holding off purchasing anything camera related for now and possibly for years to come - except to replace something that no longer functions (if I feel it needs replacing to begin with). I can most easily split with my Nikon FX DSLR system as my Sony system has made it mostly redundant. I don't see a clear path forward - Nikon's current mirrorless bodies don't satisfy my needs (as none can replace my workhorse D500). A D850 successor might tempt me, as does a high-end Z body - but at least for the time being, the best D500 replacement is another D500.

 

The pandemic has also seriously curbed my actual photography as my motivation for it - another reason to not purchase anything at the moment.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Dieter Schaefer

The reality is that DSLRs have hit a plateau.

Think so. If their marketing follows consumer trend, I don't see why they would continue to make DSLRs instead of concentrating on mirrorless and beyond. I for one, have decided not to replace any of my damaged DSLR cameras and lenses.

I wonder if I am the only one who is put off by the uncertainty in Nikon's path forward - I, for one, am holding off purchasing anything camera related for now and possibly for years to come - .

I wonder what "uncertainty" you are referring to. To me, Nikon's path forward is quite clear, although Canon is even more blunt. Canon has made it clear that there is no more new EOS/EF mount lenses, and probably bodies. It is all mirrorless from now on. In the entire 2019, Nikon introduced exactly zero new DSLR and zero F-mount lens. In 2018, the only new DSLR was the D3500 and the two F-mount lenses introduced were the 180-400mm/f4 and 500mm/f5.6 PF. Therefore, it is entirely conceivable that the D780 and D6, plus the 120-300mm/f2.8 are the very last F-mount products ever introduced. In other words, since the beginning of 2018, the three new F-mount lenses have all been super-teles in the last 3 years.

 

When Nikon introduced the Z6 II and Z7 II earlier this month: Nikon | News | Nikon releases the Z 7II full-frame mirrorless camera

Their updated Z lens roadmap shows 400mm and 600mm lenses in 2022: https://www.nikon.com/news/2020/img/pic_201014_01_03.jpg

 

While Nikon did not specify the maximum aperture, I believe those are 400mm/f2.8 and 600mm/f4 lenses, which imply a sports-oriented flag-ship Z body will also arrive in 2022. What is still not clear to me is whether Nikon will make a DX version of that Z body similar to the DX D500 vs. the D5 and D6.

 

Nikon is not going to discontinue the D850 all of a sudden, but IMO, if Nikon introduce any successor to it, it won't be drastically different. Not everybody wants more pixels. The D6's Multi-CAM 37000 is not much better than the D5's Multi-CAM 20000. With plenty of people moving onto mirrorless, the potential market for any D850 successor is going to be very limited.

If they followed consumer trends, they would have stopped making cameras alltogether. Nikon sell more DSLR than mirrorless cameras and continue to develop both technologies.

 

I think it is quite possible that the D500 gets a DSLR successor to take advantage of the new AF sensor and processor. The D6 has got a number of usability improvements that don't seem to exceed the noise threshold in internet communication but could be appreciated if inherited by less expensive cameras. Its touch screen can be operated with gloves on (in the glove mode). The user can select which combination of settings are recalled when a function button is depressed. Even the dreaded AF mode / area selector can now be reprogrammed under a right-hand side button so you can adjust AF area on the fly without taking your left hand from under a heavy lens. Shape and size of group area AF can be adjusted so you now have a very flexible AF system. The 3D tracking, when photographing people, now can handle another person passing across the line-of-sight and the system maintains focus on the original subject (as long as the crossing subject is not of the same color). In previous models, 3D tracking seemed to always lose the subject when the line-of-sight was interrupted. The burst AF performance with 70-200/2.8 is just ridiculous. Qc now works up to 5 fps and supports EFCS. The i screen can be customized as to which settings are displayed and adjustable by touching. The built in wifi can transmit files to PC in the background without hickups. Built-in GPS not only tags the files but also can create a log file which allows the images from your non-GPS-equipped cameras to be tagged with location information in Nikon ViewNX-i. It just goes on and on and on, the camera has numerous useful features. What surprised me most is that none of the lenses I have used with the D6 so far required fine tuning (and the auto AF fine tune now gives consistent results with less than 1 point standard deviation whereas with Multi-CAM 20k I had to average six trials that often gave very different results). Now I have one zoom lens giving -1 and 0 at different ends of the focal length range (out of a range of -20 to +20) and the rest so far auto fine tune to 0. Standard deviation from lens to lens (after averaging six trials!) on my other cameras is around 8 fine tune points, i.e. they are all over the place so fine tuning each lens is mandatory to get acceptable results on these older cameras. I have to add the caveat that I haven't yet tested all my lenses on the new camera.

 

People just don't see the numerous improvements because they have decided that it can't have evolved significantly since it is a DSLR and they already decided without trying the camera that all progress is happening in mirrorless.

Edited October 30, 2020 by ilkka_nissila

The D6's Multi-CAM 37000 is not much better than the D5's Multi-CAM 20000

 

I hate to have to ask this but how much time have you spent with the D6 to make that determination?

instead of concentrating on mirrorless and beyond.

Oooo, I wonder what's beyond mirrorless? :D

The D6's Multi-CAM 37000 is not much better than the D5's Multi-CAM 20000

 

I hate to have to ask this but how much time have you spent with the D6 to make that determination?

Not much, but that comment is based on reading various reviews and discussion with some friends who own both. Also, my D5's AF doesn't miss very often so that it is essentially impossible to be significantly better.

 

Do you have any experience with the D6 to have a different opinion?

Oooo, I wonder what's beyond mirrorless? :D

Halloween will be tomorrow, and we know some beings cannot look into the mirror. :eek: :D

 

However, I meant they should allocate more money for research.

I wonder what "uncertainty" you are referring to.

I thought that would be obvious from my post - I am not referring to "all roads lead to mirrorless eventually". I am concerned about when "eventually" will be. And the uncertainty is also evident in your own wrirting:

Canon is even more blunt

- Nikon has not. In fact, they are hatching their bets by claiming DSLR and mirrorless will be developed in parallel (for how long is everyone's guess).

Canon has made it clear that there is no more new EOS/EF mount lenses, and probably bodies

- Nikon has not. Though you make a good point that there hasn't been much going on with F-mount lenses. Not surprisingly though - Nikon needs to fill the Z-mount lens line and they simply don't have the capacity for more. Plus, there really isn't that much missing in the F-mount line currently. A D850 and a D500 successor ought to be ready by now or soon - if Nikon has indeed worked on them, or hasn't stopped working on them. No certainty there until we get the announcement that Nikon will announce something.

In the entire 2019, Nikon introduced exactly zero new DSLR

But they did come out with the D780 early in 2020. Essentially a Z6 with a mirror box and pentaprism finder. Which apparently makes the camera $500 more "valuable". Is that the path forward - bring out a DSLR model that directly competes with a mirrorless one but price it substantially higher? Yeah, I know, the DSLR is so much more expensive to produce, especially if the production runs decrease.

What is still not clear to me is whether Nikon will make a DX version of that Z body similar to the DX D500 vs. the D5 and D6.

There it is - the uncertainty that concerns me the most. I don't want to spend $4k-$5k on a Z8/Z9 or whatever model I would need to get to replace my D500 "eventually" when Nikon decides to come out with a much cheaper DX model that performs similarly a year later. I actually don't care much if the eventual D500 replacement is DX or FX as long as the number of megapixels and the fps are sufficient and the AF performs well. Naturally, the DX version will likely cost only half as much as a comparable FX one (just see D500 vs D850).

My needs for my general photography are rather low - and so far have easily been met by my D810-based Nikon FX system. And as easily - at lower weight and better IQ - by a three-lens Sony mirrorless system. In a sense, Nikon has already lost me here because they offered nothing competitive (and still don't) - I just haven't divested of the cameras and lenses yet. Eventually I will have to switch systems (actually, my wife and me both) - that's going to be a substantial amount of money to spend and I would rather stretch the use of the lenses we currently have as much as possible. I am not a friend of using adapters - so the F-mount on FTZ route doesn't appeal to me at all. Though I might have to go that way eventually with the 500PF (unless Nikon offers a mount conversion from F-mount to Z-mount).

 

As it stands, as long as Nikon offers the D500 I'm good. If they offer a D500 DSLR replacement, even better. I also take a mirrorless D500 replacement. As to the rest - I'm all set until something breaks. And probably for the first time in 40+years, Nikon will not be the only choice then.

I think it is quite possible that the D500 gets a DSLR successor to take advantage of the new AF sensor and processor.

I hope that Nikon sees it that way too! And many thanks for the comprehensive list of improvements made with the D6!

What surprised me most is that none of the lenses I have used with the D6 so far required fine tuning

That is indeed surprising - it took me many hours (actually days) to find tune my lenses. An experience I am not eager to repeat.

Dieter, it should be very clear that Nikon is going full-speed ahead with the Z-mount mirrorless. Even Canon does not absolutely, completely rule out more DSLR products either; they do kind of leave the door open if that if there is demand, they may still introduce more EF-mount products, but I certainly don't see that happening.

 

If you look back to 2016 and 2017, Nikon introduced 5, 6 new F-mount lenses each year. Thanks to B&H for putting those lists together.

• 2016 Best of 2016: Nikon Lenses
  
• 2017 Best Nikon Lenses of 2017
  

In 2017, Nikon also introduced three 100th anniversary f2.8 zooms, repackaging old lenses. I am not counting those as new lenses.

 

After that, from 2018 to 2020, Nikon has added a grand total of 3 new F-mount lenses, all super teles. It should be more than obvious that they are not developing the F-mount and mirrorless Z-mount in equal significance.

 

Nikon does have the tendency to occasionally introduce products that belong to the generation prior, as such the FM3a in 2001, 10+ years into the AF era, the F6 in 2004 when the transition to DSLRs was well underway, the Df in 2013 .... Personally I wish Nikon wouldn't waste such effort, but those products have their fans. It really doesn't matter. I never bought any one of those products or the D780. Their existence should not concern you at all.

 

At this point I would assume no future products in the F-mount. Whether in reality there maybe 1 or 2 more bodies and/or lenses makes little difference. Concerning the replacement for the D500, for one thing the D500 is still fine. I actually prefer the Multi-CAM 20000 on it than on FX because it covers far more portions of the frame. At this point no other brand has a camera with AF performance similar to the D500 below $2000 anyway.

 

Concerning the D6, the fact that Ilkka needs to come up with a long discussion about a bunch of minor improvements is exactly where the problem is. Ideally there should be a few very clear-cut, major advantages from the D5 to D6 with 4 years of development so that it is very easy to explain why one should upgrade. However, what really turns me off about the D6 is that it looks like it will be superseded in 2022 by a Z body. I had that experience before when I paid $4800 for a D2X in 2005 only to watch it superseded by a $1800 D300 in 2007, and I would rather not let that happen to me again.

 

Concerning AF fine tune, I have never done that on my D5 either, not when it was brand new. Unfortunately I dropped it twice, in 2019 and 2020. It required moderate repairs both times. After it came back, my lenses all AF perfectly.

So, D800, D800E, D810 and then D850.

 

If (!) they introduce a new one, what's it going to be called? I can't see the obvious pattern!

 

Any unlucky numbers to be aware of?

I just saw a mint used Z7 with 24-70 f/4 zoom, and another Z mount 24-70 f/4 lens in the window of a local camera store.

 

That's got to say something.

That's got to say something.

Indeed it does. And the cost?

 

MPB have A LOT of Z6s and FTZs.

 

window of a local camera store.

Gosh, you still have one of those?

So, D800, D800E, D810 and then D850.

 

If (!) they introduce a new one, what's it going to be called? I can't see the obvious pattern!

 

Any unlucky numbers to be aware of?

 

They went from 750 to 780 so I guess from 850 to 870 or 890. I don't think they would pic 880.