Nikon D7000 and Pentax K5

<p>I checked out the release on <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/previews/NikonD7000/page2.asp">Nikon D7000</a> last night and it was an decent (reads excellent) upgrade from Nikon D90 and I can't wait to see the final spec on K5 for comparison. There are few things that really daunt on me. Please help me clarify as I have not gone through the whole spec</p>

<ul>

<li>dpreview had an initial mistake in the pricing. Now it was corrected for $1,199 and I saw it last night at $699. If there was a pre-purchase button, I would have clicked it before posting this</li>

<li>Is it weather seal? I know D90 was not weather seal</li>

<li>It has an aperture coupling and as I read it from others, it can work with old Nikon MF lenses without the Pentax crippled KAF2 effect necessitating the need of Green button in Pentax. In other words, Nikon may have come to grips and show new trends in backward compatibility with its old glasses. Is that how you read it? Or this is too good to be true. Or there is gimmicks that I don't understand?</li>

<li>The weight in D90 is very close to K20D and the D7000 is not much heavier at 780g. I am sure a lot of D300s users will be happy to see the weight.</li>

<li>The iso range is 100-6400, and 6 fps and I think that is enough to steal the attention from the Canon camp. Whatever that Canon has developed in 60D seems a bit of downgrade from what Nikon has offered. If you look into 7D, the pricing and weight don't seem to suggest the match up.</li>

<li>39 focal points with 9 cross type sensors, not as much as K7 in focal points but still, this is Nikon with good tracking and records in AF.C</li>

<li>The flash in the previous version in SB 600 can be had for $180. It is a steal for me to get two. And now it has the SB 700 which is as powerful as the SB 900. </li>

<li>The 35mm f/1.4, OMG, what the hell is Nikon doing on fast lens. They have the best bang for the bucks in 35mm f/1.8 and I wonder if the lens is as heavy as the body. Sweet anyway to see the lens efforts in going for the speed instead of going for the toy-r-us mentality but that is a business decision that may pay off the bills in Hoya camp</li>

</ul>

<p>More to come when I remember them as I can't wait to see what K5 is all about.</p>

<p>Hin, this is much more than a D90 successor, it's a camera all in its own class: D300 quality, with smaller size, and much smaller price tag. Nikon will sell a gazillion of these. Some answers to your questions and random comments:</p>

 

<ul>

<li>Not weather-sealed.</li>

<li>It appears to have aperture coupling, which up until now was reserved for upper end cameras only: Dx00 series and the full framers. You are correct that it would be akin to Pentax decrippling the mount and allowing us to shoot K and M lenses in all exposure modes. I note, as I always do, that Pentax could also allow this through firmware, with no need to physically decripple the mount.</li>

<li>Nikon's AF tracking is very good, and the extra focus points are very useful for BiF and similar situations. For static subjects it makes little difference whether you have 39 or 11 AF points.</li>

<li>The 35mm f/1.4 is a premium lens (weather-sealed, high tolerance build, blah, blah, blah) and has a premium price tag attached to it ($1,800). It's meant to be the 3rd in the premium trinity of premium primes for Nikon's premium customers: 24mm f/1.4 ($2,200) and 85mm f/1.4 ($1,700). I'm sure they'll sell a few.</li>

</ul>

<p>If the MSRP of the K-5 doesn't come down from the rumoured $1,600, Pentax is going to attract exactly ZERO new advanced shooters to the Pentax camp.</p>

<p>How about the stabiliser? Nikon forces you to buy expensive lenses since the stabiliser is not in the body itself, unlike Pentax. And the usual problem with using M42 lenses for Nikonians is still there, another advantage for Pentax. Just to name two without even checking the Nikon D7000s specs.</p>

<p>The aperture coupling is a really big deal IMO. Probably the biggest deal.</p>

<p>I know we talked about this several years ago, but I don't understand why Pentax didn't leave the aperture coupling on the lenses and use that as a selling point. Afterall, it does use the backwards compatibility as a selling point.</p>

<p>As far as selling new lenses, well, Pentax has a new trick for that. It's the lens correction on the K-7 and K-x. For me it's a compelling reason to go with a Pentax lens when all other things are equal. Plus, while the old lenses are nice, even with an aperture coupling you still lose AF and newer coatings.</p>

<p>Of course the fact it (the D7000) is not weather sealed is a big negative for me.</p>

<p>The lenses, the 24, 85 and 35mm are absolutely ridiculously priced. If anyone points to those lenses as a good deal, and a reason to switch they have more money than brains. For instance the Pentax FA 85mm 1.4, often considered the best 85mm, and often cannibalized by Canon shooters who even go so far as to change the mount, is about $1000-1400 used and people complain it is way over priced.</p>

<p>The 35mm 1.4 is less than a stop faster than pentax 31mm f/1.8 and cost significantly more. It's hard to argue the Pentax 31mm isn't premium build. Peter was noting that he has seen lens comparisons with Nikons 85mm 1.8 vs. the 1.4, and generally people feel there isn't a significant improvement over the 1.8 to justify the cost of the 1.4 G.</p>

<p>So once again, Pentax is still a much better value over Nikon which has really went off the deep end with the lens pricing.</p>

<p>As far as the AF points, I rarely use more than the center point. And as Miserere noted about his own use, I rarely wish I had more than the 11 points I currently have. No doubt there are some people pining for more points, I'm not one of them.</p>

<p>BTW, Hin, the D7000 appears to be aimed right at the 7D. Aside from the lack of weather sealing it appears the D7000 is a very close competitor at a very reduced price.</p>

<p>Nonetheless, Pentax does need to perhaps look at it's pricing. Then again, a sealed K-5 with a bunch of Limiteds or sealed DA lenses will certainly cost thousands less than a similar Nikon kit.</p>

<p>I think one of the key thing that I like is the AF is maintained while in HD 1080p movie mode. I do hope that K5 has that. As far as I remember, K-r, K7, K-x can't maintain AF in movie mode. </p>

<p><em> </em><br>

Mis, you mentioned<em>:</em><br>

<em>If the MSRP of the K-5 doesn't come down from the rumoured $1,600, Pentax is going to attract exactly ZERO new advanced shooters to the Pentax camp.</em><br>

For what it's worth, I did a little search on a well known Canadian site regarding the pricing of the K5:<br>

Henry's has it at <strong>Cdn$1599 </strong>w/an 18-55 WR lens, and this store usually is one of the priciest "in town".<br>

I would guess that other stores will as usual beat Henry's price by at least $100, if not more. But, as I mention, it is a "guess".<br>

When we compare that to the price of the D7000, in <strong>Canadian dollars </strong>, we have:<br>

Henry's: <strong>$1599 </strong>w/18-105 WR lens<br>

B & H : <strong>$1545 </strong>w/18-105 WR lens<br>

Pretty close numbers, aren't they?<br>

Now, is Pentax going to still attract serious shooters with that sort of pricing?<br>

I don't want to speculate, just reporting the prices announced.</p>

<p>JP</p>

 

<p>According to a mass email from Adam at PF the K-5 body is going to cost $1399.99 which is still too much money for it. </p>

<p>Mis, I think it's easy enough to consider this a D90 successor. Price is similar, size/weight/controls are similar. It has just been up-speced a bit...isn't that kind of normal for next generation cameras? Whatever you classify it as though, I expect that you're right, Nikon will sell container ships full of these.<br>

Hin, you might want to check on those flashes. SB700 is not as powerful as SB900, it's closer to SB600. I don't see SB600 for $180 new, usually $220. Both are basically like AF360FGZ with swivel heads. I've bought a pair of minty AF360FGZ for only $150 each, I think from KEH. The SB900 is the higher power pro unit more like AF540FGZ. (I imagine it is probably a better unit than Pentax's AF540FGZ but it should be for the extra $55). The SB900 relatively recently replaced the SB800.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>"39 focal points with 9 cross type sensors, <strong>not as much as K7 in focal points but still</strong>"</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Don't know what this means. K-7 has only 11 AF points, 9 of which are cross-type.</p>

<p>You can buy a whole Pentax system for the price of that Nikkor 35/1.4. Not sure what the point of this comment is...Nikon can release lenses like this freely because they already have the entry -level and midrange covered.</p>

<p>Mis, while I think Pentax could probably do more than they do in firmware to improve support for pre-A k-mount lenses, I don't see how they can do open aperture metering without knowing the position of the aperture ring--this is what would have been provided by the missing mechanical coupling. What they *could* probably do in firmware is require you to define your lens parameters and pick from a list. You'd probably have to leave the aperture ring at minimum aperture (similar to A position but without the safety lock) and use the body e-dials to control the aperture. This is probably similar to the nikon approach but with F-mount the coupling prong probably helps index that lens (define range of apertures). I think there's another issue is that the aperture actuation lever has a different movement for A vs. pre-A lenses--the 'A' lenses are specified to have a linear actuation lever (move x far per stop) while this was not necessarily the case for pre-A lenses (see '<a href="http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/technology/K-mount/Ka.html">Linear Operation of the Diaphragm Actuator</a>' and the descriptive text <a href="http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/lenses/primes/wide-angle/M28f2.8-ii.html">here for M28/2.8 ver.2</a> which was sort of a hybrid)--this might be tough to do with accuracy with K/M, though maybe a firmware assisted indexing/calibration procedure where each step is registered could work. I can sort of understand why Pentax doesn't bend over backwards to do this and would rather people buy new lenses. I think it would have been nice if there was an option for it--like maybe only the top body has it...or its an option that costs an extra $150 or something like that.</p>

<p>miserere, I think it is in fact weather sealed, as nikon states <a href="http://nikon.com/about/news/2010/0915_d7000_02.htm">http://nikon.com/about/news/2010/0915_d7000_02.htm</a> <br>

As everyone can see on pf, this release was like a small nuke and seriously, it moved me away completely from upgrading my k7 (when and if it returns from repairs :(</p>

<p>the specs are a killer for all the others medium range brands so all we have to do is expect the performance tests</p>

<p>here a small hands on: <a href="http://blog.chasejarvis.com/blog/2010/09/nikon-d7000/#more-2080">http://blog.chasejarvis.com/blog/2010/09/nikon-d7000/#more-2080</a></p>

<p>According to Chase <a href="http://blog.chasejarvis.com/blog/2010/09/nikon-d7000/">Javis Blog promotion with video</a>, he mentions the following on the spec</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>_Magnesium alloy construction (read “pro quality”)<br>

_High durability magnesium alloy body (dust and water resistant)</p>

<p>_H.264/mpeg-4 video compression<br /> _Makes .mov files at 24fps in 1080 (30fps at 720HD)<br /> _Movie has built in mono, but stereo sound recording capability with optional external mic via stereo mini jack<br /> _20 minute movie recording times</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Whether that is accurate, it is subject to scrutiny or definition of weather sealing. Please help me confirm why it is not weather seal.</p>

<p>@Andrew, I stand corrected as I remembered wrongly on the metering segments instead of AF points</p>

<p>Though most of us, myself included, use center point for most jobs. There are times with Birds In Flight, or in some cases as in sports and you want the AF points to help you to your advantage. Whether that really works in reality is another discussion. The more points there are, the more likely that the right AF point is picked up for the tracking to work on BiF and it can differ on situations but I see it as plus point as one can choose center focus only for most other times.</p>

<p>Yeah, I'm with Justin- Pentax should just retain the old aperture coupling and all would be in line with their backwards compatibility. That should not really take much in the way of production cost and design, as for years it was a feature of even inexpensive film models. Pentax should go back to the either/or aperture operation of the old PZ-1p and ZX-L. </p>

<p>People, can we please verify the weather sealing.</p>

<p>The Canon 40D was listed as environmentally sealed. In fact, it had a cheap rubber gasket on the CF card door...THAT WAS IT.</p>

<p>I'm not saying it isn't sealed, I am just wondering what the level of sealing is.</p>

<p>To date, the best sealed cameras under $2000 are the K10D/K20D/K-7 and the E-1/E-3. I do not know how the 7D stacks up, but even if I toss that in as being equally well sealed it is still $800 more than the K-7/K10/K20.</p>

<p>Remember, the E-3/K-7 have the highest possible level of sealing short of being waterproof. The E-3 is actually officially rated as "splash proof" and while Pentax doesn't rate the K10/20/7 as splash proof officially, I have had a K20D in a "monsoon" without any issues for over 45 minutes.</p>

<p>This is no joke hard core sealing. I want to verify that the Nikon is this level of sealing before spreading rumors throughout the webs that will take us months or years to clear up.</p>

<p>Seems like it is going to take a ruling by a Nikon rep, as the official Nikon page seems vague: "All joints on the camera body have also been sealed to ensure a greater level of water and dust resistance."<br>

I guess what constitutes a "joint" is open to interpretation. Does this mean only doors are sealed? </p>

<p>Seems like it is going to take a ruling by a Nikon rep, as the official Nikon page seems vague: "All joints on the camera body have also been sealed to ensure a greater level of water and dust resistance."<br>

I guess what constitutes a "joint" is open to interpretation. Does this mean only doors are sealed? </p>

<p>In the <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/news/1009/10091515nikond7000.asp#press">dpreview Nikon press release link</a></p>

<blockquote>

<p>Key Features<br>

High durability with magnesium alloy top and rear, sealing against dust and moisture: allowing you to shoot with confidence even in the toughest conditions</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This is just a bullet point but I don't see how effective the seal works with weather. </p>

<p>@Justin, please note that I am NOT helping to promote Nikon but I am surprised as everyone does on the D7000 release spec.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote></blockquote>

<p>weather sealed or not, it is a hell of a camera. For rainy days, I will just use the k7 kit :)</p>

<p>An excellent thread in <a href="http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1036&thread=36330365">analysis of D7000 and the coming of K5 in dpreview</a>. In the thread opening, the author doesn't seem to consider what D7000 has to be weather sealed. I will probably throw in question to ask around. </p>

<p>I stand corrected on my original statement about weather sealing. My new statement is: <strong>I HAVE NO FRICKIN CLUE IF IT'S WEATHER-SEALED OR NOT.</strong></p>

<p>Andrew, what you described about setting the lenses to minimum aperture and then using the e-dials is exactly what would have to be done (for the record, I have two Vivitar lenses that have an 'A' setting with no button, it's just an extra click stop after f/22). You would have to choose the lens from a list on-camera, or enter parameters yourself. There should be a memory for you to store 20-30 of your manual lenses to make choosing quicker. And yes, there would have to be two algorithms for aperture lever movement: One for pre SMC-A lenses, and another for SMC-A and later lenses.</p>

<p>I'd understand if they only included this functionality in their flagship model, and it would be a very strong motivator to get me to purchase it. I have a number of fine lenses in K mount that I barely use because of the inconvenience of the green button—I'd love to have a body to use them on in Av, Sv and TAv.</p>

<p>The D7000 is going to trump the K-5 unless the indicated prices are quite wrong. Though one can point to some Pentax advantages, these have been eaten away over time. Low price and compact size were two selling points but now the Pentax cameras are getting bigger and more expensive -- big mistake. It could be that the K-x/K-7 generation is the pinnacle of Pentax popularity.</p>

<p>With the current pricing on lenses, Pentax does not look like a good deal. In fact you can easily buy two fast Nikkor primes (full frame coverage) for the price of one FA Limited. One does not have to compare the G versions... Nikon have plenty of others on offer, especially with an AIs coupler.</p>

<p>Pentax has to be better than the competition where it counts. Instead they are pursuing faster frame rates and other marketing trivia at the cost of total system value. About the only thing left in Pentax's favour is the stabilised bodies. That is not enough.</p>

<p>On <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikond7000/page3.asp">dpreview hands-on preview on the battery grip</a></p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Available separately is a new <strong>MB-D11 battery grip</strong> for the D7000. Unlike the D300 and D300S, adding the grip doesn't make the D7000 any faster, but it does aid handling. Like the camera, the grip is constructed from magnesium alloy, and is <strong>weather-sealed</strong>.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>And there is an optional weather seal mount that goes with <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/news/1009/10091509sb700.asp">SB 700 flash announcement</a></p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>The flash has a mounting foot lock lever, through which the flash can be securely attached to the camera, preventing it from coming loose. There is also <strong>an optional weather-sealed mount</strong> available for outdoor photography.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>This is NOT endorsing D7000 as a weather sealed camera as we don't know how effective and there is no standard that comes out to quantify the statement. I went back and looked at the D300S announcement and I read about the weather sealing in similar fashion on the body durability section.</p>

 

<p>Here is my mini rant and take it like the grain of salt that it is. On Paper both cams sound pretty good. The fact that the nikon comes in for less money, makes it the attractive choice. If it is an upgrade to the ''VERY. VERY'' good D90, Nikon is already a step ahead. The D90 has a very good reputation. In some ways the D7000 sounds like it could give the D300s a run for the money. </p>

<p>The K-5 is suppose to be an upgrade from the not so very good K-7. No matter how much we try and defend the K-7, We ''ALL'' remember the ''GLS'' that pissed off a bunch of people like myself. All over the PENTAX world, most and I mean most would agree that the VERY GOOD K20D handles noise better than the K-7...It is sad when people are recommending a K-X to me so I can be happy with the noise performance when I have the ''top of the line K-7''....<br>

Now add to the fact that some of the most influential Pentaxians that I know have jumped ship or are now running dual systems.<br>

Add to the fact that many folks people look up too, like Justin and Hin are having troubles with there Pentax bodies. Add the fact that they can't even get them fixed in a reasonable amount of time and more problems. Here on P.net we are a small family type group and more respectful of each other and Pentax, but take a look at PF and some of the larger Pentax sites and Pentax is getting killed by members all over... Add the SDM Fiasco and more drama!....I was one of the fools who pre-ordered a K20D then the K-7 meaning I paid full price for them only to be hugely disappointed by the K-7....That green line thing was bad!</p>

<p>The past two weeks I have found that using my D300S with the 24-70F/2.8 lens has been a real joy. I am so impressed with auto focus C, that I have come to realize it is completely useless in the Pentax system. The biggest downside to the D300s is the shutter sounds like an AK47 as does the D700. Both are big and heavy, but man do they work great...AFC is something I never thought I would use or need as it crawls in the Pentax system.....</p>

<p>Now personally speaking again. As much as I have fallen in love with Nikon, PENTAX does have those amazing small primes and ltd's that make for a perfect street shooting set up. I had made the remark that after reading the specs of the K-5, that I might just get one in spite of the fact that I said I would never buy another Pentax body again...After this thread and few others I have read, If I where to buy another body, it would be the D7000...I am grateful I have 2 K20D's as those are very good and will use them until either I die or the cams die. What ever comes first...OOOOH Bad joke... Never mind. </p>

<p>If my small/light/beautiful Nikon AI-s manual focus lenses will meter with the D7000, I will start saving up for one immediately. This <em>could</em> be the DSLR I've been waiting for, for the past seven or eight years.</p>

<p>I say that with a mixture of excitement and sadness -- I've enjoyed becoming a Pentaxian and part of me really wants to continue to "be interesting" and stay with Pentax.</p>

<p>R.T. I do not know about the D7000, But I have a few very old fully manual lenses that work great on the D300/D700 so I imagine they will work. </p>

<p>The new Nikon D7000 has weather sealing, but please keep in mind that does not mean the camera is waterproof. You cannot expect to throw it into a swimming pool and expect it to survive, but some light drizzle should not bother it.</p>

<p>We have a preview here on photo.net based on advanced information from Nikon, but unfortunately we have not seen the camera yet (i.e. this is not a hands-on preview): <a href="../equipment/nikon/D7000/preview/">http://www.photo.net/equipment/nikon/D7000/preview/</a></p>