Nikon D700 Banding Problem

<p>I have had my D700 for about eight months now and I have not noticed this problem until last week when I was in Paris trying to take, for the first time, handheld night photos of the city. I was using ISO 6400 and I noticed serious banding on the photos, as shown in the attached typical example. Is this normal for this $3000 camera or is there a problem with the camera? Thank you.</p><div></div>

<p>Another example...</p><div></div>

<p>...and another one. Thanks.</p><div></div>

<p>I wouldn't say that is normal. I would say it might need to take a trip to Nikon to get fixed. You might go ahead and download the latest version of firmware 1.01 and see if it helps, if you haven't already done it.</p>

<p>The banding appears only in cases having high contrast like these ones.</p>

<p>What on earth are you both talking about ? What banding ? I see no banding in any of the examples, only some variation of light from the spotlights.</p>

<p>"What on earth are you both talking about ? What banding ? I see no banding in any of the examples, only some variation of light from the spotlights."</p>

<p>I agree.</p>

<p>I can see it. (I'm using a color-managed browser on a calibrated screen; that may help.) It's pretty subtle. The bands go vertically on the vertical shots, and horizontal on the horizontal shots. There are maybe 20 of them across the width of the first frame (I didn't actually count), approximately evenly spaced.<br>

I think they're not actually evenly spaced -- they're located where the blown highlights are located.<br>

I haven't noticed this from my D700, but I'm not sure I've taken any ISO 6400 images of a dark sky like this. You could certainly send the files to Nikon and ask...</p>

<p>Banding is very obvious in the 1st picture. Less so in the other 2 pictures, but if you do a slight shadow/highlight adjustment in PS it becomes visible.</p>

<p>You're not the first person to report this on the net, and there have been lengthy discussions about this. High ISO, high contrast - your shots are just about the ideal condition to produce this effect.</p>

<p>I'm also using a calibrated everything, and can clearly see them in all three photos.</p>

<p>Maybe you should send Nikon these photos and see what they say.<br>

I've done it before and they respond very quickly.</p>

<p>The "banding" is light going into the night <strong>from floodlights.</strong> It is not the camera.</p>

<p>Photogaphy involves the capture of light, and that is what your D700 (at ISO 6400) has done.</p>

<p>A pure black sky would require the local electric company to cut power to the floodlights around the monument.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>

<p >Mike,</p>

<p >There is some banding in your photos, this is due to high gain at the row sense amplifiers plus bleeding effect from the lights, I have noticed this in a few of my D700 shots, lifting exposures will cause the banding to be more noticeable. This is normal for D700 due to multiple channel readout configuration of the sensor that enables high speed read. some noise reduction software can correct this. Your camera is OK, remember this is ISO 6400. </p>

<p > </p>

</p>

<p>Yeh, it's normal considering the conditons: high ISO, low light with bright light sources in the frame. As Jerry noted, the banding is aligned with bright light sources in the frame. My D2H shows worse banding at 3200 and 6400, especially with any underexposure. Your photos are about a full stop or more underexposed. A lower ISO and/or less underexposure would minimize the problem. I never see any banding with my D2H between ISO 200-800, even with bright light sources in night photos.</p>

<p>Check <a href="http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/noise.htm"><strong>this site</strong> </a> for descriptions and illustrations of different types of digital sensor noise.</p>

<p>Thank you alll for your comments. From what I understand from all responses, this phenomenon is likely normal but, nevertheless, still disappointing. These examples are among the worst that I got but I would still like to send them to Nikon Canada (I am in Canada) to hear their opinion. Does any of you have an e-mail address where I should send them?<br>

By the way, the banding in this pictures is more evident on the back panel display of the camera than on my computer screen.<br>

Also, would I get the same banding problem if I were to use a lower ISO setting and longer exposure time, on a tripod?</p>

<p>This isn't a side affect of the lights. When the D700 first came out (and to this day), the banding issue was discussed in the DPReview forums (same with the D3). Go to the DPReview D3-D1/D700 forum and type, "d700 banding" (no quotes). Here's a post going back to Sep 2008: <a href="http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=29409559">http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=29409559</a>. The banding mostly occurs in very specific "photographic environments".</p>

<p>mj t, the issue you're referring to, including the dpreview thread, actually confirms the observations made by Jerry, Arash and the link I provided which provides an overview of digital sensor noise. It is related to the presence of lights in the frame, which is clearly demonstrated by following the path of each segment of banding directly to a bright light source in the photos Michael attached here.</p>

<p>As you said yourself, the "banding mostly occurs in very specific 'photographic environments'," which describes the circumstances illustrated in this thread: a very specific type of environment or condition, which includes operating at the outer margins of performance - high ISOs.</p>

<p>Canon 5D MK11 manual expressly says that banding in the shadows may occur in very high ISOs with high contrast subjects - it'll be the same for the D700 (even though its the miracle camera!)</p>

<p>The D700 may be a $3000 camera (at least the "list" price is $3000), but we still cannot expect miracles from it. Until a few years ago, ISO 6400 was mostly unhead of or of extremely poor quality. The D3/D700 lets you get decent/acceptable results at ISO 6400. However, when you have so many light sources inside the frame, there are some compromises. The $8000 D3X will give you noticably worse high ISO results; it is not intended to be a high-ISO camera.</p>

<p>"Also, would I get the same banding problem if I were to use a lower ISO setting and longer exposure time, on a tripod?"<br>

no.</p>

 

<p>The banding problem is (most likely) caused by the scarcity of bits in the shadow area of your image. There are many more bits available at the highlight end of the histogram; thus the axiom 'expose to the right'. If only a few bits are available to describe what is, in reality a gradient, it will stair-step, producing the result you see. This correlates with the presence of light sources in the image--it has 'fooled' your meter into underexposing.</p>

<p>Mike,<br />I have seen this issue at ISO 6400 only, not at ISO 3200 and lower, long or fast exposure. If you have Nikon Capture it is quite easy to correct, just drop a color control point over the banding area and reduce brightness, you will need one control point per band. You can also select-paint the whole sky and apply some Gaussian blur/darkening. Some noise reduction sw can also eliminate banding in a more sophisticated manner.</p>

 

<p>I have never seen this with my D700 or D3 unless I accidentally underexpose the shot by a stop or more at ISO 6400 or higher, which is what you have done here. Price has nothing to do with this occurrence, it is user input that caused it.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The "banding" is light going into the night <strong>from floodlights.</strong> It is not the camera.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No, it's definitely there in the dark areas of the first picture. I didn't see it at first, but now it is very obvious as vertical bands in the dark sky--when I am looking for it.</p>

<p>Having seen it, however, I am not distracted by it. As others have said, it is understandable under these conditions.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<p>i'm gonna disagree about the underexposure claim made here. i'd say that's pretty good exposure. if you'll look at the histogram, there is a peak very low, as to be expected from a shot of the night sky. however, if you look at the values of the monument, you'll see that the red channel is in areas very close, but not actually, to be clipped. this seems to have gained the most amount of light in its subject without clipping any of the channels, so i'm gonna argue that this image is basically perfectly exposed. the channels R and G are clipped in the point source lights but everywhere else they are not. so i argue that no more exposure could be given to this image without flat spotting one of the channels, usually that pesky red. </p>

<p>now, as to the banding, were you shooting 12-bit raw?</p>

<p>and was d-lighting on?</p>