New Zeiss Ikon Rangefinder and Leica mount lenses

All this kerfuffel about the new Zeiss Ikon rangefinder and the ZM

lenses and I haven't seen any decent photos of the camera or the

lenses - (the side-shots on the official web site might as well be

technical drawings) - until today. Have a look at:

 

http://zeiss.hp.infoseek.co.jp/fotokina2004-zm.htm

Nice gleaming lenses. To me the most interesting one is the 15/2.8 Distagon (which is made in Germany). The others duplicate or are very close to the specifications of the current Leica offerings. Let's hope it will not be priced like the 16/8 Hologon for Contax G.

In Australia orders are being accepted for the ZI body and lenses. Hasselblad distributors are handling it. They say that the body will fall between Leica and Voigtlander in terms of build and price.

 

The initial lens pricing they are advising retail dealers also falls between Leica and Voigtlander but closer to Leica. For example the few German built lenses have estimated AU$ pricing between AU$3k and 5k. The Japanese lenses have pricing range of AU$1k to 2k. If the quality of optics and build are what we expect of Zeiss these could be very very competitive. But, what ZI does with the body will be interesting to see.

 

All in all, this is a very interesting initiative - resurecting a wonderful brand with a new rangefinder 35mm camera and film at that in what we all thought is a declining market segment!! Maybe (as some have predicted) buyers are realising that the digi versus film issue is not an issue but just a question of chosen media for capturing images.

 

Despite Zeiss' comments (see the Zeissikon.com web site FAQ page) about digital sensors not being up to a film standard that can capture what Zeiss lenses produce; it will be interesting to see how quickly Zeiss introduces a digital version to compete with Leicas announced intention to release an MD in 2006.

The Zeiss website states that it expects these ZM lenses to surpass the

quality of the Contarex lenses. The Contarex lenses are among my very

favorite

lenses. During 45 years of photography I have found none that I prefer to

them. A few of the Leica M + R lenses come close. So hurry Zeiss, let us see

just what all this "kerfuffel" is all about.

At PhotoPlus Expo in New York, the Hasselblad rep told us that 4 of the lenses (25/2.8, 28/2.8, 35/2, & 50/2) will be available soon, scheduled to be shipped out of Sweden in November. They hope to have the other 3 lenses available early in 2005. The body is scheduled to be shipped from Sweden in April to be available for retail sales in May.

 

He said that pricing will be about 60% of Leica prices - maybe even a little lower than that. The way Leica prices are rising - another price increase announced for January - I expect prices to be even less than 60% Leica. However, he said that only applies to the lenses made in japan. The 2 lenses being made in Germany (15/2.8 and 85/2) will cost more because of higher production costs in Germany.

I thought there was the Biogon 21/2.8 that was supposed to be made in Germany also. I think the Biogons (35 and 21) are going to be interesting, as compared to the Distagon 15mm. If I'm not wrong, the Distagon is the wide angle design to cater for the SLR mirror box and the rear element sits further away from the film plane; probably to cater for metering. IMHO, I think that Zeiss should stick to the Hologon design, even though it might possibly block any TTL meetering in the body.

 

Chee-Hoe GOH

What's up with the front bayonette being shiny chrome for light to bounce into the lens? Otherwise, very interesting set-up.

Definitely not as pretty as the Leica lenses. Wondering if the hoods will fit the Leica, though.

 

Wai Leong

 

PS Why do the Japanese websites always get the scoop on new Leica/Zeiss equipment pictures?

The bayonet on the front of the lens looks like it is for the hood.

Also, it appears that the filter will screw in and the hood will go over the filter, like the VC lenses.

That's a stylistic cue from the old Contarex lenses (CV has been using it in their latest M-mount lenses, too), see, e.g., <http://www.fotoralf.de/contalens.htm>. As w/the Contarex lenses, reflections aren't a problem if you use the hood.

 

--------------------

 

"What's up with the front bayonette being shiny chrome for light to bounce into the lens? Otherwise, very interesting set-up."

the pics have been out for a while...came out the day photokina began

 

i commented on the unsightliness of the lenses back then...it just isn't right for the front

of black lenses to be so blatantly silver..i don't need anymore fodder for design class

discussions

Golly, a 15mm f/2.8 and a 21mm f/2.8 biogon? These are not your father's Noktons! This

seems exciting to me (he says, as he surveys a tableful of Canon digistuff and nary an M-

mount anything in sight...).

 

Wow.

Japanese list prices:

 

Biogon T* 2.8/21 ZM

120,000 Yen

Out in 2005

 

Biogon T* 2.8/25 ZM

105,000 Yen

December 2004

 

Biogon T* 2.8/28 ZM

95,000 Yen

December 2004

 

Biogon T* 2/35 ZM

95,000 Yen

November 2004

 

Planar T* 2/50 ZM

75,000 Yen

November 2004

 

Lens hoods are 7,500, finders 39,500.

 

No prices on the two lenses made in Germany yet (15 & 85).

<i>IMHO, I think that Zeiss should stick to the Hologon design, even though it might possibly block any TTL meetering in the body.</i><P>

 

Bad idea. First, the Hologon is a fixed focus lens. It wouldn't be rangefinder coupled. Second, the Hologon is fixed f/8. That limits its use to daylight or tripod. Third, I doubt it fits into the plan for a possible digital camera, as the current crop of lenses have been designed for possible use with digital. Fourth, it most likely would require a costly centre-spot filter for transparency films. Fifth, (my opinion) it probably would be prohibitively expensive.

>it just isn't right for the front of black lenses to be so blatantly silver..i don't need anymore fodder for design class discussions

 

Did you measure the surface of the chrome rings for their angles and found they really reflect light into the lens? Better tell Hassey and Zeiss (even Rollei) because those lenses have been looking like that for decades.

i'm not arguing that the silver will affect the lenses' optical qualities...in a facetious way, i

find them functionally unpretty...it will not stop me from buying a couple if they perform

as well as i expect, but if i were one to photograph my cameras and lenses, maybe it

would

<i>Bad idea. First, the Hologon is a fixed focus lens. It wouldn't be rangefinder coupled. Second, the Hologon is fixed f/8. That limits its use to daylight or tripod. Third, I doubt it fits into the plan for a possible digital camera, as the current crop of lenses have been designed for possible use with digital. Fourth, it most likely would require a costly centre-spot filter for transparency films. Fifth, (my opinion) it probably would be prohibitively expensive.</i>

 

Good rebuttal!

 

Do you think the Distagon going to cut it in a rangefinder design?

The Hasselblad rep said the Distagon uses 11 floating elements. For that reason, the complexity of construction is beyond what Cosina can currently produce. The Hasselblad rep said that Zeiss selected the Distagon over the Hologon for the reasons that I mentioned. I think he was repeating what Zeiss mentioned in its FAQ on the camera and lenses.

 

It's an ultrawide, and I suppose that there is demand in rangefinder photography for an ultrawide. Given that it has a nice aperture range (f/2.8-f/22), claimed high resolving power at open aperture, it would seem to be a good product.

 

However, the CV lens f/4.5 15mm Heliar is also a nice piece of glass. How much extra will people pay for another stop of speed and the Carl Zeiss name and design? That's a bit tough to determine. If the lens performs as advertised, then it should be a good seller. If the lens doesn't perform as expected, the marketplace will settle things.

 

The Hologon is an amazing lens. The Contarex Hologon camera is very interesting, and if you've ever seen one, the lens is unlike anything you'll ever see.<div></div>

"Bad idea. First, the Hologon is a fixed focus lens. It wouldn't be rangefinder coupled."

 

The Hologon was NOT fixed focus. The Contarex version had two focus settings, .3 meter and infinity, as far as I know. The Leica version could be scale focussed from 0.2 meters to infinity.

 

As to rangefinder coupling -- no one cares about rangefinder coupling a 15mm lens. At F8, the depth of field reaches from a few inches to infinity.

 

That being said, no one needs the fantastically expensive Hologon when you can have a 15/4.5 from VC which is better in every possible way.

Chee-Hoe, the Biogon 21/2.8 will be made by Cosina in Japan. Only the Distagon 15/2.8 & the "Sonnar" 85/2 will be made in Germany.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"Fred Mueggelhopper , oct 31, 2004; 06:53 p.m.

The Zeiss website states that it expects these ZM lenses to surpass the quality of the Contarex lenses"

 

I have checked www.zeissikon.com but could not find the statement. Is it true that Zeiss states such a claim?

 

YS

"...surpass the quality of the Contarex lenses"

 

Weren't the Contarexes manufactured in the 1950's? Haven't optics progressed since then?

 

Okay, I have Rollei lenses from that era that I really like, but even so..

Today Cosina has officially launched their pages on Zeiss lenses. Sorry, in Japanese only

for now:

 

http://www.cosina.co.jp/

<i>The Hologon was NOT fixed focus. The Contarex version had two focus settings, .3 meter and infinity, as far as I know.</i><P>

 

The Contarex Hologon has no ability to focus. It's a lens mated to a body -- no focusing helical and no focusing ring. The stated depth of field is 0.5m to infinity.<P>

 

However, you're right that a 15mm lens doesn't need to be rangefinder coupled. With the extreme depth of field, it isn't necessary, though at f/2.8 at close distances, you might want a bit more accuracy.

Cosina! Oh well. I shouldn't be suprised after all my old Contax SLR/Carl Zeiss lenses were made by Kyocera and they were great. Lets just hope that Zeiss have some sort of influence over quality.

 

I was sure that Cosina make sub Vivitar/Phoenix quality stuff until recently. Has Mr Kobayashi really turned things around THAT much?

 

Zeiss & Cosina. Just doesn't sound right. What has the world come to...(mutter, grumble, bah...)

 

Old Carl and Otto (Schott) and Paul Rudolph must be spinning rapidly by now. Who am I to talk? My P&S is hand made in Germany in small quantities by German technicians in white coats and half moon specs and my SLR is made in Thailand in batches of about 1,000,000,000 a day. Its all wrong, wrong......

 

(my SLR should be lovingly assembled in small batches by men in white coats who served 10 year apprenticeships and my P&S should be spat out of some flat pack factory in Macau by the zillion.)