New to Nikon

Just wondering if I might be able to get some advice on a Nikon SLR

and lens(es). Here's my situation: I have had an older Minolta (XG7)

SLR (passed down from my grandpa) for quite some time, I have used it

with a 50mm and a 135mm. As it is manually focused, and, apart from

having aperture priority is otherwise fully manual as well, I have

been learning to shoot that way, and have enjoyed it. But, this SLR

broke (meter doesn't work anymore, shutters stick, etc.). My wife

has been using a small P&S with which we are not satisfied. We think

that the best way to rectify both situations is to buy a new SLR that

will offer me to opportunity to learn to take great photos, and allow

her to use it on auto/program almost as easily as a P&S. In other

words, we want one that won't intimidate her and will still allow me

the freedom of manual function.

 

We will be using it primarily for the following:

1) Family gathering photos (first child on the way)

2) My dissertation field research in Costa Rica and Mexico (mainly in

tropical forest and in rural areas)

3) Photographing my brother's football games

 

I have a few questions, then, in this regard:

1) We seem to have settled on the Nikon N65 body. Any concerns or

comments as to this choice?

2) The N65 seems to be most often sold in kit form with the 28-80.

As I mentioned, I have been using a 50 and a 135 with the minolta.

Are there concerns with regard to the kit 28-80? If so, how would I

best resolve these, while maintaining ease-of-use for my wife and the

necessary functionality for our three purposes without breaking the

bank?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

Noah

The N65 is a pretty good choice for your needs, the N80 might be a slightly better choice for you if you plan to expand your photography or if you think you're going to want to be able to use the camera with newer Nikon (G) lenses. Either will be fine.

 

I strongly urge you to avoid the "Kit", that lens is the poorest (or one of the poorest) in the entire Nikon line-up. My personal favorite for a multipurpose zoom is the 28-105, well worth the extra money.

 

BTW, if you'll do a search here you'll find a ton of info on the N65, the 28-80, the 28-105, and choosing a new Nikon set-up...this question comes up about once a week.

--evan

The problem with the N65 is that it only has matrix metering. It does not have spot or center weighted (like what you got used to). Your wife would like it though. The N80 (or F80 outside the US) is a better choice for you, since it has the manual features you are used to using.

Noah,

 

I would take advantage of the rebates at, e.g. via Adorama or B&H, and buy a N80 (comes to $375 after rebate) and then add a 28-105 or the new 24-85 ED G lens. That combo will allow you to take stunning photos, grow as a photog, take oh so cute photos of the coming baby (i had one on Thanksgiving!) and is a tad more sturdy/faster/better than the N65.

 

Just my 2 cents...

What kind of photographs will you be making for your research?

 

Btw, it's hard for me to see the advantage of the N65 + 28-80 lens over a good quality point and shoot camera. If you like having control over your camera, you would be happier with the F80 ($350).

 

Here is the N65 review on photo.net in case you haven't already seen it:

 

http://www.photo.net/nikon/n65

Thanks for everyone's prompt replies. Very helpful advice so far. I am now weighing the possibility of the N80 instead of the N65. However, as I am on a tighter budget at the moment (we doctoral students aren't paid much), I would likely be looking at the N80 with EITHER the 50/1.8 or the 28-80.

 

It seems my choices are these:

1) N80 and 50/1.8 with an eye toward other lenses in the future.

2) N65 and one of the better zooms (24-85 or 28-105)

3) N80 and kit zoom (28-80) with eye toward other lenses in the future.

 

Does that make sense? Any advice here?

 

Oh yeah, and I do have another question. I should probably know the answer to this, but what are the chief advantages of the spot metering and center-weighted metering options on the N80 over the Matrix metering on the N65? This seems to me to be the main advantage of the 80 over the 65. Is that right?

 

Noah

I'd have to agree that the N80/F80 is a better long term buy than the N65. I use an N60 (predecessor of the N65) as a backup to my backup, and while it's an excellent (and much maligned) little camera, as I'm sure the N65 is, the N80/F80 offers just enough additional features (such as a cable release - it may not seem important now, but...) to warrant the extra cash.

 

I also agree with the previous posters that the kit lens is a p.o.s.

Noah: As you probably already know, Costa Rican forest conditions can

be quite dark and are often very wet. I would avoid the slow midrange

zooms entirely in favor of two or three fast primes: a 50 f1.8 and 85

f1.8 to begin with, and if you can afford a third lens, a 24 f2.8.

The 85 is also a great baby lens.

 

Get the best body you can afford: any Nikon AF, no matter how

complex, can be turned into a point-and -shoot in seconds. The N80 is

a MUCH more capable machine than the N65, which I think would

frustrate you rather quickly. It is not very well-sealed against the

damp -for that you'd have to spend more for a used N90s, slightly

obsolete but very rugged, or the even more expensive F100. So go with

the N80 and a lot of plastic bags, and for those football games rent a

300 for the day!.........

F80 with 50/1.8 (particularly if you don't use your 135mm much) is a good choice for somebody who doesn't have older Nikon lenses.

Hmmm...I see the N65 does have a infra red remote control cable release option, and depth of field preview. Looking at the specs the only true disadvantage is the lack of spot metering.

 

In answer to your question spot metering gives you much more control (IMO total control) of your exposure. As you'll be going to the rainforest you'll probably find the two photographic examples of flora on this page - http://spotmetering.com/ - will show you the advantage of spot metering.

 

Having looked at the specs I would go with the N65 and a good Nikon zoom or, still preferably, an N80 with a good zoom.

 

If you're really on a budget then go with the N80 and the kit 28-80 lens. This lens has excellent glass and will generally produce very nice results. My qualm with it is that it feels like a cheap piece of crap (which it basically is) and isn't fast enough for satisfying available low light photography. You'll always be able to sell it on eBay though.

 

The 50mm 1.8 (all of them) are superb but then you're limited to a 50mm view.

Also: While it's a good idea to get the N80 body new, used lenses

bought from a reliable dealer like KEH.com often make sense: there's

very little to go wrong and the savings can be substantial..........

Ok. I'll be the heretic in the group.

 

You are on a tight budget -- I will use that as one of the most important factors. You are not an expert -- correct me if I am wrong.

 

You have asked about the metering patterns and their differences and received a few reasonable answers. The short answer is that a spot meter is not necessary. Your head is. Once you know more about exposure you can compensate in your head and then bracket if necessary. Period. But, spot metering is certainly nice if you can get it.

 

I know you posted to the Nikon forum and I have nothing against Nikon -- if I could do it again I would buy an FM2N/FM3A -- but, why did you "settle" on the Nikon? What turned you off other choices? I have a choice for you that might meet your requirements better than the N/F65 and be cheaper than the N/F80. The camera I am thinking of is the Minolta Maxxum 5. It has almost all the features of the N/F80 or Elan7 and costs about the same as the N/F65 or Canon Rebel 2000/Ti.

 

It has: 30sec - 1/4000sec shutter speeds; 3 frame/second film advance; spot meter; matrix meter; PASM modes; small and light design. It mops the floor with the Nikons and Canons in its price range and it has a great metering system. It is going to be difficult to outgrow this camera and I have not read a negative review of this little gem yet. Of course, I don't use it, either. You can buy the camera and a good zoom/primes for less than the competition. B&H, for example, is selling the camera with the kit lens and a 70-210 zoom for $399. That's $50 more than one of the posters quoted for the F80 body alone.

 

If you are stuck on Nikon, however, you may have to go used. Try an N/F70, perhaps, and a 28-105 3.5-4.5 zoom.

David has a great point. Obviously you're on a Nikon forum so most of our first thoughts will be on Nikon products and we're almost all going to be much more familiar with the various Nikon products to the exclusion of other brands. Most of the time that's just due to familiarity, but there's also some brand prejudice in there.

 

Anyway, the Minolta is a good choice, Pentax makes a nice model with the features you're interested in as well. A digital Camera such as the Fuji 602 or similar that allows you to use full manual features but has a fixed lens may be a good option for you and your wife since you'll be sharing it.

 

If, however, your mind is set on Nikon for whatever reason (and there are good reasons--not trying to disuade you), and your budget is too tight for the N80 + 28-105 combo then the N65 with a good lens such as the 28-105 would be my choice for your situation...you'll survive many years without the spot meter--I bought my wife and N80 over a year ago and she's never used the spot-meter (at least on purpose)...there are a lot more little things to get confused about on the N80 and if your wife might pick up the camera after you've used it and doesn't realize that you'd switched it to spot metering or exposure compensation or something then she might become really frustrated with using it when her pictures don't turn out. Anyway, I think the 50mm/1.8 is a great lens, but I think you'll be frustrated using it in the diverse ways you hope to (travel, family, etc.) without the options for wider angles for indoor shots and zoom for outdoor and farther away shots. I still would try to discourage the 28-80, but it will work as a 'stop-gap' lens until you 'get a real job' and can purchase a better lens for a body that should last you forever.

 

Hope all that rambling makes a little sense.

To be clear, the N65 uses Matrix Metering in all modes except Manual, which uses center weighted. The other oddity is that it only has one command dial which makes using manual mode a little more cumbersome (must push shift key to change aperture).

 

I've used the N65 for a year now and I find it to be a very capable entry level SLR. I will probebly buy another lens or two before upgrading to a better body.

 

I have the 50/1.8 and the 28-105mm and I can't say enough good things about them. The 50/1.8 is a no-brainer, cheap, sharp, and small. The 28-105mm is a terrific general purpose/travel lens. You can take a wide-angle landscape at 28mm, turn around and take a portrait at 105mm and then switch to macro mode to get in real close (1:2). The lens is sharp and clear throughout the range.

Noah, The 28-80 would be a great range for you, but the quality of lens in the packaged version is terrible...I believe even the lens mount is plastic. While the N80 offers a lot of growing room, the N65 would handle your basic needs as described and (if you're willing to go $400) allow you to redirect the cash differential toward getting into a better lens. I agree with the advice regarding the 50 f/1.8, it's always come highly regarded...Nikon is running some pretty strong rebates on a variety of their lenses through the end of the year might want to take a look at too. Best Wishes, Mark

Noah, if having $750 worth of new camera gear would be painful financially (or would make you feel guilty about not putting those dollars elsewhere) then get the N65 with the 28-105 AF-D Nikkor lens.

 

You and your wife both will be able to get a lot out of that combo. It's stone simple to use in auto-everything mode just like a point-and-shoot. That 28-105 lens will delight you.

 

But if the budget issue is a relative thing, not an absolute thing, try this: Get the N80 with the 50mm f/1.8 AF-D Nikkor lens. It's the best bang-for-the-buck in the Nikon line, withgout a doubt. Wonderful camera, still simple to use in auto-everything mode and more pleasantly laid out than the N65 for the times when you want to take more control of the process.

 

Then when your wife says, "I love this thing, but why doesn't the lens zoom in or out?" You say, "I can fix that!" and order the 28-105 AF-D lens to go with it. See? Piece of cake. But if you buy the N80 body and those two lenses new, it'll add up to $750 or $800 so that's why I asked you up front about your budget realities.

 

Either way, you'll have a fine new camera and you can add goodies to your kit year after year as you identify new requirements in your photography.

 

Have fun,

Some points I don't think you have considered:

 

<p>1. Manual shooting - N65 has a TERRIBLE interface - go to a store and try them both

<p>2. "Field Research" and batteries - don't believe that you can buy exotic lithium batteries in rural Costa Rica and Mexico! If they sell an AA adapter grip or the like, consider getting it. I don't know about the N65 but I am certain the N80 takes these lithiums.

<p>3. Football games - sorry, 28-105 or 50 are not going to be overly useful. You need something like 80-200/2.8 (>$1000) or 300/4 (>$1000) as a minimum unless you want "group shots".

 

<p>Is there any reason why you wouldn't just buy another MD mount Minolta camera, new or used? You've already got two great lenses and hardly any battery dependence. Take the difference and get some more lenses off ebay or the like. The cheap Minolta MD mount glass will blow away the cheap zooms from Nikon (and some expensive ones too!).

Again, thanks for all the advice. I've considered the Minolta suggestions (both the Maxxum 5 and the X320-S), and think I will stick on the Nikon track. The X320 (MD mount) was probably the most creative suggestion I've received so far, and one I definitely hadn't thought of before, but the only problem is that whatever I get has to be able to function as easily as AF P&S for my wife. The other problem is that she does not want to be selecting the proper aperture for a shot, considering depth of field and light requirements.

 

I considered the Maxxum 5, as well, but I have heard that equivalent Nikons are better constructed. Is that true? Or is it just a myth? The Maxxum does have many more features (including spotmetering, ISO control, etc), and can shoot at 1/4000th, but I think I have another idea, which I will mention below and get a reading on from you...

 

I would really like to go with the N80, but then I would be constrained lens wise (because of total price right now). So I am thinking of going with the N65, the 50/1.8, and the 28 - 105 for now. In a few years, if I want the features offered by the N80, I can move up to that body, right? Then I still have these lenses, and can build on that collection, as well.

 

By the way, whoever mentioned renting a 300 for my brother's football games (I forget who metioned it, and can't see it now) made a good point. I certainly won't be buying anything that big anytime soon.

 

Let me know what you think. Thanks again,

 

Noah

hey Noah,

 

if money is an issue, then why won't you buy second hand??? januari is supposed to be a good month to do great deals on the second hand sites on the net (ebay, KEH, etc.)

 

cheers,

Luc

You have chosen wisely: those lenses will probably be with you

through several bodies. I think the reason I have stayed with Nikon

(for 40 years) boils down to being able to rent stuff I can't afford

to buy or don't want to because it's just for one job, in almost any

small city in the world. Canon? maybe. Minolta? Pentax? "Sorry, no

got.".......

I think it is most important to get a quality lens. If money does not allow you to buy your first choice, then I would buy the less expensive body. But if you skimp on the lens your pictures will suffer. IMHO, the first choice should always be the lens then the body.

I had the same situation some time back. I am a beginner myself and

thought will buy N65 for now as first SLR and a good set of lenses and upgrade later. Since I am using N65 for first time, I am not aware of 2 dial limitations etc. It is like using Linux/Unix and Windows. Once a person is used to Windows environment, goint to Linux command line may be difficult. So if go to N80 later, it will be easier. Those using N80 will probably find using N65 horribly difficult. Probably the reason Nikon engineers designed that way.

Anyway, I have N65 (all black body - only QD models have) 50 mm f/1.8, 28-105 mm D-IF, 70-300 ED lens, 52 and 62 mm UV filters.

 

Now after using N65 for couple of weeks, I feel I should have opted for N80. Too late for me to exchange, Out of curiousity I asked B&H how much will 2 weeks N65 go for in used dept. They told $60 !!

I hope to keep N65 for a year or two before upgrading to N85 maybe

when it is available.

i subscribe to the philosophy that it's not the camera that makes the picture, but the person behind the camera. features are just tools to make the job a little easier, but then tools are useless if you don't know how to use them.

<BR><BR>

personally i use the N65 with the kit 28-80G lens and the 50mm f/1.8, and i have taken some amazing photos with my setup. i don't think the 1-dial interface is a bother unless you plan to set your exposures manually, or are constantly setting and resetting compensation. people knock the 28-80G lens quite a lot, but truth is, i have exposed many very sharp, richly colored and contrasty slides with it. of course, do get the 50mm for indoor shots without flash; besides, playing with depth of field is one of my favourite games!

<BR><BR>

conclusion: buy as much camera as you feel comfortable buying AND using. if you can't imagine yourself ever needing to switch metering systems or having gridlines in your viewfinder or [<i>insert superneat N80 feature</i>] then you'll be happy with the N65. either way, make sure you get the battery grip, it's totally killer!

<BR><BR>

i also subscribe to the philosophy that one tends to get smarter and and more creative when working within limitations than without. just a thought.

I think you will find these links informative: http://photonotes.org/articles/why-canon, http://www.photo.net/equipment/35mm/canon-v-nikon, http://www.photozone.de/bindex2.html (click on CANON vs NIKON ? WHAT ABOUT MINOLTA ? AND PENTAX ?) and http://www.nikonlinks.com/unklbil/bodylens.htm.