"New" Retina IIIc question

Dear Classic camera lovers,

 

I just bought a Kodak Retina IIIc from the famous auction site.

 

It seems to be in quite good working condition and I bought it as a "take everwhere"

camera due to it's small size and great lens.

 

The meter on the camera responds well to light changes, but is not accurate (off by

over 2 stops in places). I was thinking it would be really cool if it worked and I could

still shoot, even when I leave my spot meter at home.

 

My question: Is there a way to adjust and calibrate the meter? And where can I learn

to due this? I'm assuming it involves a couple screws and perhaps a volt meter or

calibrated relfective meter for reference.

 

I was also told that I could have the meter professionally calibrated with a new photo

cell for $50. In your wise opinions, would this meter be worth spending the 50 bucks

on?

 

Thanks all for your expertise.

 

-bruce

$50 seems cheap for any kind of camera repair these days. I'm very wary of doing any work myself on the Retinas because of the complexity of their design. I would jump at the chance to get good work done on them at that price. I've got the I, II and IIa models, and they are great little cameras. Hope you'll share some pictures from yours.

Oops, I have the IIc also. It's probably the most competent of the bunch. I've avoided the III because the meters so often are not functional. However, I do appreciate the built-in meters on newer cameras, and if I could get a guaranteed meter fix on IIIc, I'd go for it. If you decide on that route, I hope you'll share your impressions of the results.

If I recall, the meter is a sealed unit and therefore more difficult to service. It's easier to simply swap the meter unit, rather than try to service it. However, if someone says they can do it for $50, that's not a bad price.

Check the meter against a reliable hand held meter. Record the error at each aperture stop. If the variations are linear then all you have to do is down rate the ISO of the film. If it isn't linear then you'd best ignore it and get a hand held meter or learn the Sunny-16 rule.

I have two IIIc's, one with a working meter and one with a dead meter. The working meter seems to be bang on, and the lens is woderfully sharp. If I could get the other meter working for $50, I would leap at the chance. The LVS system on these cameras is a PITA, but they are really sweet picture takers, not as compact as a IIa, but rounder edges. Good luck.

Thanks for the responses so far.

 

The meter does not have a "linear" error. It is accurate at low light and gets worse as

the light increases.

 

I already own a spot meter, a couple incident meters and a color meter. I was just

hoping to be able to use the camera with a little less stuff in my hands. Is there a tiny

modern meter that can fit in the accessory shoe? That's not too expensive?

 

I did look at a IIa and found that although I liked the small size, I found that it was

too small to hold in the right hand once the lens is unfolded. And the viewfinder was

too hard to see while wearing glasses. I am pleasantly surprised by how easy the

rangefinder is to see for focusing on the IIIc. Almost easier to focus than my fuji 6x9

rangefinders.

 

I might also like to find a lens hood for the camera, and if the meter works well, the

incident diffuser for the little on board meter. Any suggestions?

 

-bruce

Meters like this work in "short circuit mode". The cell is a current source; where meter current/deflection is proportional to light level. The contacts get corroded with time; with an older self powered meter. The spring contact behind the cell needs light buffing; to get a lower resistance circuit. When abit resistive; the classical; very classical/common "failure" mode is bad/low metering at bright light levels; and good metering at lower levels. Many times the cell just needs its contacts; resistive green stuff removed; to get good meter readings. In about 9 out of 10 times; a cell contact has a resistive/corrosion spot; that only requires an eraser. Some repair guys will feed you the "need a new cell" gambit; when the entire labor is getting to the cell.

Imagine a 50 year old car; that the radio works; but the engine cranks slow. A bad cable or corroded battery lug is almost aways checked. Replacing the battery is more profitable for the repair guy.

<i>Some repair guys will

feed you the "need a new cell" gambit; when the entire labor is getting to the

cell. <p>

 

Imagine a 50 year old car; that the radio works; but the engine cranks slow. A bad

cable or corroded battery lug is almost aways checked. Replacing the battery is more

profitable for the repair guy</i><p>

 

The repairman said the photo cell only costs a couple of dollars, so whether it's

replaced or not has no bearing on the cost of the repair. If I decide to have it fixed I'll

mention the eraser/contact theory.<p>

 

What I'd really like to learn is how to clean the contacts myself. Any ideas?

Bruce,

 

I also have the IIIc, and have had the meter problem you speak of. I will share what info I have with you.

 

When the meter has a poor contact on the back of the cell, the meter will flicker in bright light if you touch the cell front and move it a little, the cell can be cleaned simply to eliminate this as the problem, by using an eraser or isopropyl alcohol on a cotton bud (sparingly). Taking the meter apart needs a soldering iron and a steady hand - best not to start if you don?t have both of these?

 

One thing I have noted is that the Retina cells read differently from modern meters, and you have to learn to interpret what they are telling you. This fact is mentioned in a contemporary 'Focal Press' guidebook. My Retina also reads 'correct' at low light and builds an error as the light gets stronger, however this error (compared to a modern meter) is only when using the camera outdoors. When the two meters are checked against one another using a bright diffuse light (such as a net curtain), the meters once again agree.

 

I feel that battery powered meters have a different receptivity to the selenium cells on the retinas - not that the retina cell is faulty (on your camera). When they go faulty, they do so almost suddenly, and the give away is that they do not have the power to shift the pointer.

 

My recommendation to you would be as follows. Clean the back of the cell, and calibrate the meter (this is done by loosening the screw in the top of the knob (above the meter) and turning the scale underneath, until you have a reading that is better than what you have. I would not put a modern cell in, as the meter (dial unit) has been designed with the linearity of the Gossen cell in mind. It would be nice to sit down and tinker with your camera, but I am a bit far away unfortunately!

 

I wish you luck - and don't hesitate to ask if you need more info.

 

Ian, UK

http://www.camerarepair.com/camera/repairs/455-Kodak-RETINA-III-C

I have a screw-on conical Kodak rubber hood which I bought from Ritz Collectibles in Phoenix; they always have a variety of Retinas and accessories in stock. The hood fits the II, IIa and IIc cameras, and I imagine it will go on the III as well. I see them on eBAy occasionally. I think there are also slip-on models which make using a hood a little easier on the folders.

"I might also like to find a lens hood for the camera, and if the meter works well, the

incident diffuser for the little on board meter. Any suggestions?"

 

I have a Kenko black metal round hood marked "Retina f/2" which I'd sell for $5 plus

shipping. Bought it at auction and never got the camera to go with it. I will e-mail you

tonight with pictures.

"I was thinking it would be really cool if it worked and I could still shoot, even when I leave

my spot meter at home."

 

I know it's a leap of faith, but I can almost 100% guarantee that if you use negative film,

you can get plenty good enough exposures using Sunny 16--and I don't mean just in

bright sunlight. You've obviously shot a roll or two in your life. You likely already know

the right exposure in just about any situation to within the tolerances of the film.

 

Give it a try--it's a liberating experience!

Re; <i>What I'd really like to learn is how to clean the contacts myself. Any ideas?

</i><BR><BR>In the National camera repair course I took about 30 years ago; they had you use an eraser. A fluid can seep into the cells edges; and ruin the cell. Here I have several cameras from the 1950;s; with meters within 1/2 stop of a modern meter. Way too many folks believe the "bad cell" BS; and get taken. The real labor is in getting to the cell; and getting the contact a low resistance again.

I used the eraser technique successfully on a Weston Master II. I think it's probably a lot easier to work on a big old handheld meter than on a Retina, however. Also, the price of failure is a lot lower.

It seems from what is said here that is not the cell but I thought I would let you know that the only company that still manufactures selenium cells for photography meters is Megatron from London (UK). (They also manufacture the Euro-Masters II handheld selenium meter). They announced six months ago that they were going to stop production because of low sales but seem to have prolonged the colsing date since then. In any case, if it is really the cell don't leave it for long as you may not be able to find brand new cells. If you send them the original exhausted cells they can manufacture an exact copy (same size and elecric qualities) for just a few Sterling Pounds.