New Mac Pro

Discussion in 'Digital Darkroom' started by richsimmons, Jun 10, 2013.

  1. Looks pretty awesome. 9.9 inches high and 6.6 wide. Native 4K display. Thunderbolt 2. and it's round. Also made in the USA. That'll earn some points. No ship date yet. Fan boys are going to go nuts on this one. I see it already. It is impressive though. If it works as advertised.
     
  2. Very impressive. And assembled in the US...
     
  3. Hey, it even looks like a walled garden!
     
  4. Nice nod to Seymour Cray, though it's designed cylindrically for a different reason...
     
  5. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    Can't wait to order one, I've needed a new MacPro for years. On the other hand, the price of the current and refurbed MacPro's are ridiculously low. Still, the idea of a 9x6" unit that powerful, all those new features and the speed, I will hold off.
    http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
     
  6. I've also been waiting for this to update. My MacPro is still pretty zippy, but definitely feeling its age. Looking at the design
    of the new one makes me wonder if I can hook up some ductwork to the top and use it to heat my house.
     
  7. >>> Still, the idea of a 9x6" unit that powerful, all those new features and the speed, I will hold off.

    That's a load of heat to get rid of in such a small space. With the fan, you should be able to lay a piece of
    pizza on the top and keep it toasty...

    Looking forward to one, though I'll still keep my 2008 MP around running Snow Leopard for the one critical
    app I have that needs Rosetta.
     
  8. The fan design is quite interesting. Looking forward seeing, and hearing it, in action.
     
  9. That's a load of heat to get rid of in such a small space.​
    Not that much, honestly. Between miniaturization and the demand for green computing (particularly at the Xeon end of the market—datacenters save millions with more efficient processors), even powerful modern computers run pretty darn cool. Tack on a fan that huge and guts designed the way they are, and it should be one cool, quiet cucumber(-shaped computer).
    Newer Xeons are designed to run cool in much, much worse enclosures and conditions than what we've seen of the Mac Pro.
     
  10. From dealmac.com:
    "Today, Apple announced its next-generation Mac Pro Xeon Desktop, which boasts a new cylindrical design that's 1/8th the size of its predecessor. It features new Intel Xeon E5 processors, faster 1866GHz four-channel DDR3 RAM, and internal PCI Express-based flash storage - which is purportedly 2.5x faster than current SSDs. It also includes four USB 3.0 ports, six Thunderbolt 2 ports, 802.11ac wireless, HDMI out, and support for up to three 4K displays on built-in dual AMD FirePro graphics cards."
    Apple did not provided pricing information, and a release date was slated for "later this year".
    Great, but I think that I will hold on to my three or four year old dual-core Mac Pro for a couple more years since it does everything that I want it to and allows me to run four internal hard drives.
     
  11. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    I loved the old look of Aluminum cases but this looks like a...weapon or a kids ugly gamer rig. I've never been sold on Apple's lack of expand-ability and this takes it to the extreme. No nvidia = no cuda, no way of adding anything. Why such a small pci-e flash based hard drive? That really limits things yet what a mess of external hard drives, card readers, and dvd burners all over the desk....Seems like a not-so-mini mac-mini and not the desktop that many were hoping for.
     
  12. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    I've never been sold on Apple's lack of expand-ability and this takes it to the extreme.​
    I believe the idea is all expendably is supposed to be external, and through the new Thunderbolt 'bus' if that's the accurate term.
     
  13. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    PCIe for sure is the fastest route to the bus and is great for drives and ram but it wont take much to fill that small hard drive in the Mac Pro, will it. The next questions is, will the majority of people be using thunderbolt external hard drives or usb external drives? I bet on the latter. Now you have an Indy car engine trapped inside a Honda Fit.
    I wish everyone would adopt Thunderbolt
     
  14. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    I really want to see how fast this thing goes.
     
  15. >>> PCIe for sure is the fastest route to the bus and is great for drives and ram but it wont take much
    to fill that small hard drive in the Mac Pro, will it.

    Eric, I didn't see any info regarding size of the internal SSD, other than it was very fast. I expect its
    role is basically for booting, system use, holding caches, etc. It wouldn't have to be big.

    I bet Apple (or somebody else) will release a small "cage" with some number of drive bays (4, 6, or 8?) that
    can be populated with whatever you want - might even be hot-swappable. And that connects to the
    MacPro with a single Thunderbolt 2 cable. Plenty of bandwidth in that interface! And, with six Thunderbolt 2
    ports on the CPU, it would be very expandable with multiple drive bays, displays, etc. There
    are also four USB 3.0 ports for whatever (printer, DVD, etc).

    I'm pretty stoked, actually...
     
  16. But all that means is you MUCH spend more on more products, to make this new Mac Pro what Pro users are used to. What it really means is that Apple is expecting so much more to be in the "cloud" that you won't NEED on desk storage.
     
  17. >>> But all that means is you MUCH spend more on more products, to make this new Mac Pro what Pro
    users are used to. What it really means is that Apple is expecting so much more to be in the "cloud" that
    you won't NEED on desk storage.


    Really. John, how many TB of storage is in your cloud and how are you backing it up? How fast can your read and write to it? Editing and rendering
    video? Personally, I probably have around 15 or so TB of hard disk.

    If as you say Apple is "expecting" the MacPro to be used as a front end to the cloud, and not needing desk storage, what is the purpose of the 6
    Thunderbolt 2 interfaces, with *each* interface supporting rates up to 20 GB/second bi-directionally? That's one really fast DSL/Cable modem drilling data at those rates into the cloud...
     
  18. Brad,
    I'm not saying I AGREE with Apple, but they have been removing internal storage on their computers for some time and making you buy more add-ons to make it the way you want.
    "what is the purpose of the 6 Thunderbolt 2 interfaces, with *each* interface supporting rates up to 20 GB/second bi-directionally?"
    Money. I suspect they KNOW the Mac Pro users want lots of storage, and are willing to pay for it. They make a lot of money on add-ons. You also end up with whole industries of companies making those add-ons to work on their new stuff.
     
  19. I don't think its designed to be a Cloud machine. They are touting to much throughput for that, and it doesn't really make sense when its designed for work station use. But I do think it looks like one of those old "smokeless" ashtrays :)
     
  20. Video editors are going to use the external storage capabilities a lot. I can't see putting those files in the cloud. Being able to lug your projects around and plug them into another system will be convenient. We do this now with USB and Firewire. Even some Thunderbolt arrays. Another application will be audio recording. Especially with dual gigabit Ethernet. I was doing this with my Yamaha M7CL years ago with my Mac Pro, but had to offload any sessions I wanted to an external drive. And no, Apple hasn't said how much internal storage there will be, but at 1250MB/s, it's going to fly. I can't see them putting in less than a TB.
     
  21. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    Eric, I didn't see any info regarding size of the internal SSD​

    I'd guess around 230gb, Brad. The jump into the 500gb range for these cards is nearly $900!

    A really powerful machine like this isn't intended for cloud use. Seems odd that the power supply outlet for the plug is under the USB and Thunderbolt connections though, I would have put them 180* on the other side of the cylinder myself. This seems like a perfect CAD machine, FCP, and with 12 cores, a great Lightroom computer! I'm looking forward to seeing the benchmarks but not the price tag. I'm guessing $4500
     
  22. I've never been sold on Apple's lack of expand-ability and this takes it to the extreme.​
    I've never been sold on the premise that slots and drive bays are prerequisites for expandability! My 15" rMBP has neither, and I've got over 10 TB and a 23" Cinema display hooked up to it through a combination of USB3, USB2 and Thunderbolt interfaces. Four drives are connected via eSATA-TB hubs, and one via USB3.
    Even back in the day, when I had my SE/30, and all my friends had PCs, they'd say "but it's not expandable" and I'd say, "what more do I need"? I had a printer port, a serial port, audio in & out, SCSI, a floppy, and if I really needed Ethernet or a second display, those could be accommodated as well. And in all the years I owned "expandable" macs (PPC 8500, various G4 towers), the only cards I ever bought for them were USB cards.
    For every existing Mac Pro that has extra drives and/or extra cards installed, I'm certain there are dozens more that have neither, and rely primarily on network or external storage, and don't have a need for anything a card might provide.
     
  23. Very impressive. And assembled in the US...​
    Indeed!
    I'm waiting to hear about the new line of Thunderbolt Displays... I could use one for my rMBP, but I'd rather not buy the existing generation with only USB2...
     
  24. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    "I've never been sold on the premise that slots and drive bays are prerequisites for expandability! My 15" rMBP has neither, and I've got over 10 TB and a 23" Cinema display hooked up to it through a combination of USB3, USB2 and Thunderbolt interfaces. Four drives are connected via eSATA-TB hubs, and one via USB3."​

    Too slow for me, Larry. I couldn't imagine having all my internal hdd's, card reader, and dvd drive outside my computer and cluttering up my desk and performing slower
     
  25. I would say that the target audience for this machine typically stores all data on a centralized NAS (even lots of
    consumers are already working like that) and external disk arrays that can easily be attached to other work stations in a
    company? This means the need for expansion in the machine isn't there anymore. Actually Apple is doing the same here
    then what they did with the floppy drive and dvd drive: remove obsolete technology.
     
  26. >>> I'm not saying I AGREE with Apple, ...

    John, Apple has never said or even hinted at what you're suggesting - there's nothing to agree with. Nor anyone else. I think
    that idea rests with you! :)

    >>> ... but they have been removing internal storage on their computers for some time and making you buy more add-ons
    to make it the way you want.

    Not to the extent you suggest. They dumped the floppy sometime in the '90s - they had the vision to know it was time.
    And the optical drive just recently. For the people that still need one there are $30 drives that plug into USB ports.
     
  27. >>> I'm guessing $4500.

    My guess is < $3K for the entry level unit. Looking at the internals of what I can see in the photos,
    compared to my 2008 and 2004 MacPros, there's a huge reduction in the BOM. Multiple fans, huge power
    supply (the new one can be much smaller not having to support four drives, and the Haswell CPUs
    dissipate less power), sub chassis for memory DIMMs, and from what I can see, perhaps even the
    motherboard - gone.

    Assembly costs, even in the US, should be dramatically lower - it appears most things can snap together.
    I suspect the circuit boards and chassis parts are still made overseas. The current and older MacPros
    have far more pieces, a large and complex motherboard, separate DIMM chassis, and a LOT more aluminum
    chassis parts. Much more involved assembly with more pieces.
     
  28. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    More info:
    http://www.macworld.com/article/2041329/the-new-mac-pro-hands-on-and-what-you-need-to-know.html#tk.rss_all
     
  29. Nice link Andrew. Good close up shot. That thing looks like it runs on dilithium crystals.
     
  30. I'm going to wait for the espresso machine that fits on top of that fan.
     
  31. It's just Apple confounding the critics. I'm glad they can still do it, but I'm not the market for this one. I'll buy a new
    MacBook Air though. 12 hour battery life! Yowza!
     
  32. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    Another very well done article with good information:
    http://www.fxguide.com/quicktakes/the-new-mac-pro-the-cube-comes-of-age/
     

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