New DSLR

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by steve_anderle|1, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. I have an EOS 1V that no longer works. With that camera, I collected these lenses:
    16-35 f2.8L
    24-70 f2.8L
    70-200 f2.8L
    180 Macro f3.5L
    All of my gear was purchased around 2002. I have not shot much in the last several years due to a failing camera and the dislike for the film/slide workflow after local stores stopped processing slide film. I really miss getting outdoors and shooting.
    My interests are nature, landscape, and macro photography. I will also be capturing my 3 year old grandson, as it's just hard to resist.
    I feel that a full frame sensor body is where I want to be to maintain my wide angle zoom. That leaves me the 5d II, 5d III, and the new 6d. Any thoughts or recommendations on these bodies? Will my lenses still be relevent with the new bodies?
    Your insight is greatly appreciated!
     
  2. Steve, seeing as the 6D has just been announced expect some lag time before you see it available in the stores. Personally I have had great luck with the used market which has afforded me purchasing higher end gear compared to what I could pay new. You may start to see a healthy selection of the 5DII on the used market in your area. Your lenses would be fine with either.
     
  3. Your lenses will work with any Canon digital SLR body, FF and APS-C. However, seeing the line-up of your lenses, I would agree that a FF body would make more sense. Judging from your past purchases, your photo budget doesn't seem to be overly constricted, so a 5D III would fit in nicely, but if money is tighter now I wouldn't even discount an original 5D, which is still a very capable camera, and can be had used for about the price of a new Rebel.
     
  4. I can't really help you much with the bodies, other than to suggest that I suspect you'll find one of the 5D models to be a better match for you, since you're coming from a pro body. Not that the 6D isn't a highly capable body, just that it's aimed lower than the 5D.
    The lenses? They're all top-quality and will serve you very well on whichever full-frame body you choose. And I agree that a full-frame body makes the most sense for you. You've built a lens collection that meets your needs based on a full-frame body; if you go with a 1.6-crop body (e.g. the 7D), you'll need to adjust your lens collection to make it fit your needs. I went through that when I migrated from film to a 20D, and not wanting to undo it is one of the multiple reasons I upgraded from the 20D to a 7D rather than to something in the 5D family.
     
  5. This time around, money is much more constricted, so a wise choice is needed.
    I was told that the AF of the newer bodies may not work well with my older lenses, resulting in 'soft' images. While I'm not concerned about this for nature/landscape/macro work, it would become a bigger issue when photographing my grandson. Any truth to this claim?
     
  6. Another thought, what recommendations are there around memory cards for these cameras? I
     
  7. The get the maximum burst and maximum images before filling the buffer with a 5D MkIII, you'll need a UDMA 7 card. I shoot birds and wildlife, so I'm using a 32GB Lexar 1000X. If you're not going to shoot video and don't shoot nature a lot, then you might do fine with a 16GB card. Given today's prices, there's no real good reason to go lower. Remember these Raw files sizes are around 25-30MB each. If you shoot Raw and JPEG, then add another 5MB per image.
     
  8. Will a UDMA7 1000x card work in the 5DM2?
     
  9. Steve asked:
    Will a UDMA7 1000x card work in the 5DM2?​
    Good question.
    They may not. The 1D-X, the 5D MkIII and the 7D, with the latest firmware update, all take advantage of the UDMA7 CF cards. They would be a waste in any camera not programmed to take advantage of them.
     
  10. I also chose the 7D route which I shoot alongside my 1v. Since your choice is full-frame, I would recommend the 5DII. The 5D is still a great camera but I think that the 5DII is a better one on just about every level. On the buy & sell forum at fredmiranda.com they are frequently being sold in the $1500-$1750 range, and while a 5DIII would be ideal, this is half the price! The 6D will be a great performer I'm sure, but I thought I read somewhere that it won't be in stores until December. Don't quote me on that though. Your lenses will perform wonderfully on the 5DII.
     
  11. Steve, you won't be sorry choosing a FF body over a cropped sensor. I own a 5D original and I usually choose it over my 7D unless telephoto reach is my main concern.
    Good luck with your new purchase. I recommend B&H.
     
  12. Your lenses are not 'old' and will autofocus just as well on a new camera body as they did on the 1V.
    If you don't have much to spend, look at the used market for older full-frame bodies like the 5D or 1Ds. The 1Ds is probably closest to your old 1V in terms of the layout of the controls, autofocus behaviour and so on. Any full-frame body will give great results, it is hard to make a wrong choice.
     
  13. While full-frame may be nice, you can certainly do quality photography with the APS-C family of cameras. It all depends on what your desired output will be - web, print, etc. You may be better off going cheap on the body (like a used 20D or 30D) and spend a bit more to get a good ultra-wideangle lens to shoot with.
     
  14. I was told that the AF of the newer bodies may not work well with my older lenses, resulting in 'soft' images.​
    Not true. However, you will find that due to the architecture of digital SLR cameras, you may need to do a tad more in post-processing, by way of sharpening the image. Don't get daunted by the learning curve because trust me, there will be one...
    I feel that a full frame sensor body is where I want to be to maintain my wide angle zoom.​
    Rightly so. I would strongly advocate for a refurbished 5D Mark II. They currently have one online at the Canon store. Also keep an eye out on adorama, B&H or KEH Camera for used units in great condition and for occasional Canon-refurbished ones. You can definitely grab yourself a bargain on that body these days...
    Welcome to the digital age ;-)
     
  15. Best buy new, right now, for 35mm-sensor, is the new, old stock Canon EOS 5D mkii. The Mark iii is definitely an improvement, but for a lot more money. Check the latest prices; the 5Dmkii is being discounted very heavily, especially given the announcement of the 6D.
    I've also had good luck with used cameras, and if you can find a used 5Dmkii for much less money it may be even more of a bargain. However, the used prices still seem not to have quite caught up with the decline in new prices for this model, so you may be able to get new for no more than a couple of hundred dollars more than a used one. Check before you buy used.
    Finally, the Canon 5D (often now called 'c' or "classic") is really a very good camera that is a real bargain now at $6-800, I think. No video, of course.
     
  16. Will a UDMA7 1000x card work in the 5DM2?​
    Absolutely. The newest firmware update of the 5d2 included support for UDMA7 cards, but even if you purchase a unit w/o that latest update, the UDMA7 cards will still work fine, just at a slightly lower speed (UDMA6 in this case). CF cards will automatically set their 'mode' to the fastest that the device is able to support, so in 99% of cases, even the latest greatest cards will work in very old units.
    And, given that you've said the budget is tight now, a 5D ('C' :) ) will still be an outstanding camera, though not as fast, or as capable (high ISO(+3200), pretty screen, 3.9+ FPS) as the new ones w/ all the bells and whistles. Regarding your concern about 'softness' with your variety of lenses, the 5D2 has a feature called 'MFA' (micro focus adjustment) designed to offset the focal point of each lens to optimize their AF performance on that camera. The 5D predates that feature.
     
  17. zml

    zml

    After using 1v, anything less than 1Ds Mk. III (used) or a new 1Dx will disappoint you. My opinion based on many years of experience :)
     
  18. Just to put a bug in your ear about APS-C format...while it is true, with 16mm as your widest lens, you'll lose true wide angle, you'll gain more working distance with your macro lens and more apparent reach with your telephotos. Canon makes a 10-22 ultrawide angle lens that would fill the gap, as do a number of competitors. I have the Sigma 10-20, which is a fine lens, as well.
    Pricewise, for the cost of a new 5DMkII, you could get a new Canon 7D and the Sigma 10-20, and save $650.
     
  19. 5D II or 5D III. Buy now if you choose 5D II. If you choose 5D III, wait for better price.
     
  20. Pricewise, for the cost of a new 5DMkII, you could get a new Canon 7D and the Sigma 10-20, and save $650.

    WestCoast BC the internet price of a 7D is 1329. and the cheaper sigma 10-20 f4-5.6 is 549. The same place offers the 5d Mark II with 24-105 kit for 2600. I expect the body only price is rapidly dropping again.
     
  21. Bang for buck - 5D2. probably the best bang in the whole Canon line up right now.
    Best camera regardless of price - 5D3.
    The 5D3 is amazing. That being said, a 21 MP full frame camera that shoots full HD video for around $1500 used is a crazy good bargain. The main differences between the two are the AF system and noise control. The AF is the most common complaint of the 5D2, but its not bad, just not what many people wanted when they paid $2700 for the camera new. Now that it's so affordable, the AF is definitely tolerable. The high ISO noise handling of the 5D2 is awesome, and its somehow even better on the 5D3. Even with the 5D2, you'll see vast improvements over high ISO film. ISO 1600 is very usable and 3200 is quite usable on the 5D2, and the 5D3 is about a stop better than that.
     
  22. I stopped in at Best Buy this evening to handle a 5D2. Nice deal with interest free financing, which I love taking advantage of. I can even return it within 30 days if I decide it isn't the right choice. I'll probably pull the plug on this option later this week.
    Of course, the sales kid was trying to push me into their extended warranty. Even said it comes with annual cleaning. Needed/recommended? What about Mack or SquareTrade?
    So the Lexar Pro 1000x 16/32 TB CF Cards sound like a good idea, along with Lexar's card reader. I would think one of each would be enough for RAW+JPEG and/or some video.
    How do the batteries hold up in real life? Is a second battery necessary?

    I would look to get an L-bracket from Really Right Stuff, then I think I'm set.

    Thanks again for all of you insight.
     
  23. How do the batteries hold up in real life? Is a second battery necessary?​
    It depends on how you shoot, what you shoot, and how long you expect to be able to shoot. If you are planning on shooting much video, or using live view shooting, you should definetly get a second batt. If, OTOH, you rarely shoot for extended periods (or trips), never shoot many frames, and don't use the video, or LV, it's something you'll rarely need. I can shoot for an entire day with one battery, or can go through six in a day (3 sets of two) - it depends on how much I'm shooting as much as any other factor...
     
  24. Marcus, with so many batteries purchased, do you stick with Canon or have you found a better choice elsewhere?
     
  25. stp

    stp

    With batteries, I'd stick with Canon. Others may be cheaper, but I've heard too many horror stories regarding off-brand batteries. Too much potential for serious damage and disappointment. IMO.
     
  26. When I got my 5Dmkii last March, I went ahead and bought 2 of the Canon brand.
    Later, following a discussion here, and just to see (since I had good luck with the non-Canon 5D (classic) batteries), I got a third-party battery ( http://www.photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00acDp ).
    You have to read the fine print very carefully to get one that works fully with the camera, but the one I got seems to work just fine in every regard. It's smart enough to show the battery charge on the camera indicator and holds the charge just as well as the Canon-made ones.
    It's obviously too early to tell about long-term but my experience with the 5D batteries suggests that there is a little more likelihood of failure after a couple of years with the cheapest third-party batteries, but for the price difference you could buy two for every one and still come out ahead in cost.
     
  27. I'd stick with Canon batteries. My oldest dates from late 2008 and is still going strong. I've got three batteries that I rotate between two bodies. (Thank you Canon for using the same batteries in the 5D MkII, MkIII and 7D). If you use your camera regularly and don't shoot more than 1,000 pix in an outing, then you may not need an extra. I think of it as cheap insurance.
    I used to shoot Raw plus JPEG, but went to Raw only after downloading the free viewer IrfanView. It saves space on the CF card and speeds up buffer clearing, etc.
    If buying a new camera, I don't think that the extended warranty is worth it. Of course, if you have a failure after the regular warranty you'll regret not having it. With Canon, in general, you don't need it; however, any particular device can always fail on you. BTW, that's where the saleman makes his spiff.
    I'd suggest an extra card given the remote chance that one could fail. If you get a card reader, then make sure it's USB 3.0 or Firewire 800 or Thunderbolt. USB 2.0 is worthless and no better that the cable that comes with the camera. I've got a reader built into my desktop.
     
  28. Moving from film the 5DII is probably a good choice. If you use you 1V in a normal configuration (I.e. not HS or similar) it
    is about the same size (actually slightly larger!). The main control differences are the mode wheel, lach of multi- spot
    metering and a viewfinder blind). I still occasionally use my pair of 1vs (one is set up normally, the other as a HS). While
    the 5DII frame rate and AF are inferior to the 1V the difference is not that great for most users. I find the AF needs to be
    used on the center setting (I use center plus AF expansion for action /sports) and you should not use AI Focus. In terms
    of cards I still use UDMA 8 and 16 cards with mine. Even in RAW this gives a lot of shots and allows you the ability to
    survive a card going bad. I use Lexar and Sandisk as they tend to be the best. If you want a sports shooter then you
    need to go 7D or 1D. I have a 7D and old 1 DIIN that I use for sports and they do a better job than the 5DII but for most
    shooting I prefer the 5. I stick with Canon batteries and have 5 between my 5DII and 7D. They are generally very reliable
    but a spare battery and card are always something I carry. After 1-2 years battery performance starts to deteriorate but
    even the batteries I bought with the 5 when it came out still perform well.
    You will need some software and a fast computer with a good monitor. While you can get away with the Canon software
    as a minimum I suggest Photoshop elements. The main things you will have to learn are white balance, the camera
    performance at different ISOs and sharpening. Enjoy whatever you buy
     
  29. BTW, the 5D MkIII's high-ISO noise performance is mainly better in handling in-camera JPEGs, not Raw. For Raw files, there's no improvement up to ISO 1600 and it is less than a full stop at ISO 6400. Any former film shooter will want to shoot in Raw.
     
  30. Working on flash cards this morning. 400x, 600x, or 1000x? 16 or 32 GB?
    I shoot mostly nature and landscape, with some people shots. I imagine I will try the video with my grandson playing.
    Thanks again for all of you insight!
     
  31. Thoughts on Giotto's Professional Screen Protectors?
     
  32. Marcus, with so many batteries purchased, do you stick with Canon or have you found a better choice elsewhere?​
    It depends on your budget, and how many you want to purchase. If you simply want an extra to keep just in case, I'd probably recommend purchasing a single genuine extra LP-E6 - just for piece of mind - it is my understanding that Canon demands it's battery manufacturer test the cells prior to shipping (whereas 'other' manufacturers may or may not).
    OTOH, when I upgraded my 5Ds to 5D2s, I bought 10 3rd party, MC equipped LP-E6s (at the time it ~$70/batt for OEM LPE6s vs. ~$15/batt for 3rd party). To date I have noticed ZERO difference in performance between the Genuine OEM batts, and the knockoffs. No difference in functionality... none in longevity, none in charge capacity. One of these days I'll have to charge an OEM and non OEM, and shoot each dry just to see if there is a 'real' difference, but even that would only be anecdotal.
    That said, I've seen one (OEM) batt fail catastrophically (as in explode into flames and smoke). It was a Nikon (not Canon), but I imagine Nikon demands the same Canon does from it's battery manufacturers, so remember that outliers happen (The camera (a D700 if I recall correctly) was obviously a complete loss, and the photog suffered some burns as well).
     
  33. Steve, don't over think the batteries and CF cards. Unless you do video, you probably don't need the highest end CF cards. I have used OEM batteries (Sterlingtek) on Canon 20/40Ds with no issues. Welcome to the world of digital - oh and get a copy of Adobe Lightroom and a Scott Kelby Lightroom book to get you started and shoot RAW!
     
  34. Thanks for all of the advice. I picked up a new 5D2, and have a battery, cards, and an L-bracket on the way. Heading out tomorrow for a couple days of camping with the family. And to play with my new toys!
    Taken a few shots without reading or changing any settings. Impressive.
    A co-worker also recommended Lightroom, so I will give it a try. I have PS as a backup plan.
    First thing I noticed, is the camera uses auto ISO by default. I know how to change it. My question is, how does digital ISO compare to film. I'm used to using 50 and 100 ISO film mostly, with occasional higher ISO.
    Thanks again for all of your help.
     
  35. Steve, your question is huge, but it's answered pretty well here:
    http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/100597-What-is-ISO-on-a-digital-camera
    Another huge thing to learn is that you don't shoot digital the same as you shoot film. Most of us, when shooting Raw, "Expose To The Right" of the histogram. By technically over exposing, but without blowing out important highlights, you maximize dynamic range. In-camera JPEGs will look washed out and with low contrast, but properly converted in LR you'll preserve more shadow detail and have more ulitmate contrast. This is only for Raw, but since you're used to film, you'll want to shoot in Raw to get the best end result and control your output.
    Unless you're already expert in PS, don't start there. LR is a great place to start and you can pull out PS for really troublesome adjustments. LR will allow 99% of what most of us want.
    Don't be afraid to shoot at ISOs like 400 and 800. Your new camera will yield exceptional results at these levels. You'll experience new freedom that'll take some getting used to, after all these years in the straight jacket.
     

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