Need help cracked negatives after developing

So I just started doing my own developing I've developed three roles of ilford pan F in Rodinal doing a 60-minute stand-alone development.

 

I thought the negatives came out fantastic but when I take my Loupe and look at my negatives closely they look like they're cracked like there's little hairline cracks all over the place anybody have any idea what's causing this??

It sounds like reticulation. Were all of your solutions the same temperature? Reticulation is often caused by immersing film in solutions of differing temperatures.

Well I developed in Rodinal doing a stand development

I think my temperatures were fairly close but I didn't really measure the temperature of the developer all the videos I've watched is it really doesn't matter that much when you're doing a stand development.

 

I did make sure that my fixer was at about 69 degrees but I didn't check my final wash temperature.

Anybody else with any ideas I don't believe temperature difference cracked my negatives the temperatures were too close together if there's a big difference maybe they were just too close together the crack there's got to be another reason?

I use rodinal, inverting the tank for standard development, and I've not seen anything like that. Try another film, with inversion development - what you have may be an artefact of stand development.

 

Another possibility is the quantity of rodinal in your tank being too small - see this thread

 

Minimum amount of Rodinal

"but I didn't really measure the temperature..."

 

- Then that's your problem.

Reticulation is pretty hard to induce in a modern film, but it can be induced by plunging film straight from over-warm developer or fixer into ice-cold wash water.

 

You need to temper everything, including rinses, and bring down the temperature of the wash water gradually.

 

"all the videos I've watched is it really doesn't matter that much.."

 

- Watch better videos that haven't been made by morons!

69 degrees!! Man alive, I thought, no wonder you've got a problem. Then I remembered not everyone works in Celcius!

 

I doubt too you have reticulation if your fixer was reasonably close in temperature to your developer (i.e fairly close to room temperature). One thing is for certain though. If you repeat this exercise to see if it happens again, it will, so change something, but just one thing.

 

You have the patience of a Saint if you can wait 60mins to see what is on your negs. Might I suggest you do something more 'normal' in say, the 10 minute range. Use the manufacturers suggested development would be my advice. Good luck, and let us know how you got on.

Yeah I'm going to try some normal development times and control my temperatures better and and see the results.

 

Other than the cracks the negatives actually looked very very nice.

The rationale of stand development is to reduce contrast by leaving less active, oxidised, developer in contact with the densest parts of the negative. Conversely, the least exposed parts get relatively fresh developer. There's also an edge effect that's supposed to improve acutance, but this can easily go too far and give a visible line around high contrast areas. Like over-sharpening in PS.

 

If none of the above is/are necessary, then stand development is a complete waste of time. It's difficult to get consistent results because of temperature change during the extended development time. It seems to have become 'trendy' with people that don't really know what they're doing, or why.

 

If you want to control contrast, then a two bath developer is more controllable, and quicker.

Again I throw out my idea of using an Igloo cooler for the entire job. . . EZ to set the temps with hot or cold water & every step has the same temp's. Aloha, Bill

I once cracked negs by rapid drying them with alcohol after washing (just dunk your wet film in that stuff). Alcohol evaporates faster than water.

 

If you want to control contrast, then a two bath developer is more controllable, and quicker.

 

It’s what I have used for years, for no other reason than it is cheap and lasts forever once made into solutions. 4 minutes each bath fast film, 3.5 slow. I’ve tried other one shot single bath developers, but can never really see any difference, or advantage

I rinse mine with 16 oz of distilled water with two caps of alcohol mixed in not a water spot on them.

I use developer, stop bath, fixer, wash aid. Only the developer is temperature checked, the rest are used at room temperature. I wash in tap water, with wetting agent in the final rinse. In nearly 50 years of developing, I've never seen reticulation.

I don't know what to believe. We'll experiment with different times and keep all my chemicals the same temperature see what happens.

"I rinse mine with 16 oz of distilled water with two caps of alcohol mixed in...."

 

- Why? The alcohol might be the cause.

Just use a drop or two of washing-up liquid instead.

Haven't developed film for decades

But having started with photography in the 70's, have done so for decades starting in the 70's up to the early 2000's

Can't remember ever having ran into reticulation problems due to sharp temperature changes between the several baths (although, if only rarely, also possible due to a 'chemical chock)

My 'recipe' to avoid it was low tech and simple

 

To begin with, I just filled the kitchen sink (may very well be a small wash tub) with water of the same temperature as the developer I was/was going to use

Then placed all bottles with chemicals to be used in it to get/keep them atthe same temperature, while keepingt a thermometer in the sink/tub to be able to constantly monitor that the water temperature (and chemicals in the bottles in it) remained in the correct range

Using the kitchen sink meant I also had the hot and cold water faucets nearby and if desired add some hot or cold water to keep the temperature constant

 

Before I would pour the developer in the tank ( I used Patersons) I would pre-soak the film with water from a jug with the same temperature as the later to be added developer, to avoid temperature shock when adding the developer,

After shaking the tank a few times, I would then (after a couple of carefull light taps with the tank on the kitchen sink to loosen possible bubbles created by the shaking) leave it standing for a minute or so to come to 'rest'

Not only did I thus avoid reticulation, but by also wetting the film completely in the same process also lower the risk of any air bubbles which could form when pouring in the developer on 'dry' film

 

Since nothing had happened chemically, I would then just pour the water out in the sink, to replace it with the developer and start the process

I would keep the temperature of the tank during the first development cycle (the developer) , and of the other chemicals to be used, constant by leaving the tank in the water filled kitchen sink or wash tub when not handling the tank for turning, shaking, or whatever handling I used to expose it to during the development process

 

In the mean time I would fill a large (bigger then the content of the development tank anyway) jug or water with the same temperature as the developer/water in the kitchen sink

When finishing the first development cylce (developer), I would then rinse the tank with prepared water in the jug before entering the next step of chemicals (stop or fix, as I personally never used stop) Obviously that water poured in after the developer, stop or fix would be tainted, so I defintely would pour it down the drain.

 

After the fixing (and having poured the fix out), standard process is rinsing the film for some time, usually by attaching it with a small hose to the kitchen faucet and usually much colder (then the chemicals used) running water through it

 

'Rinsing the fixed negatives with alcohol can be done, was a trick from the old newspaper days in case negatives were needed on a very, very short notice to have pictures/prints made to make it for the first edition (sometimes prints were even made from the still wet negatives). But that's not a procedure I would recommend for the nowadays amateur (why would you, no time perssure after all)

 

Pouring in the cold water into the tank from the faucet in one step however seriously risks cold water shock/reticulation

To avoid that, I would, before attaching the tank to the faucet, first run it through a series of rinses (some three changes or so) with water I had, similarly to earlier mentioned in the process, prepared in a separate jug

 

At first I would fill the tank with water of the same temperature as the fix (of course shaking it a bit to secure a complete 'mix' of water with residue fix on the film)

Then I would add (colder) water from the faucet to the leftover water in the jug, to thus next get a lower, although not yet as low as the faucet water, temperature mix

Thus allowing the film to gradually, thanks to the several times I switched the water from batch to next somewhat lower temperature batch, adjust to the to be expected eventual cold faucet water

 

After the rinsing (by leaving the tank attached to the faucet for some time) was done, I would add a couple of drops of dish washing detergent to the final water to avoid drops forming while the film dried (which could give white marks on te film. Works the same as the specialised 'anti drops' liquids some manufacturers sell :)

 

Simple low tech solution, no brain cracking over old or new developer

Admittedly wet, but given the handling of a lot of chemicals having a lot of ater around to wash your hands IMO wasn't a bad thing

But also bad for the environment (given the chemicals used, and not in the last place all the water used), definitely

So in that respect digital is a step up

 

On a side note, in my experience managing contrast in negatives during the development process can be done in many ways

Higher agitation (shaking) of the tank will augment the contrast, just as low agitation will lower it.

Similarly higher (then recommened) temperature of the developer will lower the contrast, as well as eg more diluted developer with a longer developement time

 

Also the choice of developer is very influential. I personally would never use Rodical for getting normal/low contrast negatives

IMO ID11 or D76 would be better choices for that purpose

If forced to shoot under high contrast conditions, I would eg use Agfa Leicanol to reduce the negatives contrast

 

But then again there have been endless variations of developers, development times and processes thought up in the film shooting days, some well known (Ansel Adams Zone system) some less (anyone ever used "Hammer' developer used by Larry Clark, author of the 1971 photo essay Tulsa?)

Still have a copy of the 1977 Lustrum Press "Darkroom' in which photographers as Wynn Bullock, Larry Clark, Duane Micheals and W. Eugene Smith told their secrets

I rinse mine with 16 oz of distilled water with two caps of alcohol mixed in not a water spot on them.

Drink the alcohol, rinse negs with water containing a couple of drops of wetting agent or washing up liquid. One bottle will last you until they close the lid on your box. Good idea to use distilled water though. I am really anal with my tank and 'centrifuge' as much of the normal tap water rinse out before I put the distilled in.

"So I just started doing my own developing I've developed three roles of ilford pan F in Rodinal doing a 60-minute stand-alone development."

 

If you are just starting out with developing, you should stick to standard developing procedures until you are comfortable with the process and getting consistent, acceptable results. Then, and ONLY THEN, should you expand your horizons with specialty techniques.

I do use distilled water for the final wash and I added alcohol because I read somewhere about somebody else putting like a cap or two of alcohol in their distilled water and having no spots on their negative so that's.

 

I'm wondering if I cracked it putting it on the real in the first place maybe I can't get up too much when I tried to bend it to get it to stay between the two sides of the real maybe that's what cracked it.

 

I can assure you there was not a lot of difference between the temperature in my chemicals it's not like one was in the refrigerator one was in the microwave I mean a degree or two difference is not going to crack your film.

 

I'm beginning to think it's when I put it on the real cuz I've been having trouble putting loading my film on the real maybe I cracked it on there I'm not sure.

Kinking the film as you load it onto a reel usually leaves characteristic dark crescent-shaped marks on the negatives (visible as dark once developed). I have done this to films when I used the Paterson-type plastic reels; they jam when they're damp or dirty.

 

As previous posters have said, what you describe sounds like reticulation, which happens when the gelatin is made to shrink. Books always warn you that a sudden drop in temperature will do this. You really can't dismiss this with 'I didn't measure the temperature but I don't think that's the problem'; real men use a thermometer.

 

All this discussion would be easier if you could post a picture of what effect we're discussing. I found two pictures at Flickr with reticulation from processing:

What are you looking at? by Michael Zuraw;

47440 passes the impressive Chester No.6 signalbox with the 0945 Manchester - Bangor on 11th December 1982 by Jjm2009;

 

and there is also this one, which seems to be due to very old (and so maybe dried-out) film:

Extreme Grain by Patrick Kuhl

If you could show us a picture of the "cracks" it would really help. Reticulation has a pretty characteristic look, as do the marks left if you bend it too much putting it on the reels.

"I'm beginning to think it's when I put it on the real cuz I've been having trouble putting loading my film on the real maybe I cracked it on there I'm not sure.'

 

Loading film onto the reel can cause problems, but the symptoms won't be cracking. Instead, the symptom will be areas of sharply differing negative density.

 

It might be helpful to see the negatives involved.

I thought the negatives came out fantastic but when I take my Loupe and look at my negatives closely they look like they're cracked like there's little hairline cracks all over the place anybody have any idea what's causing this??

 

Are you sure you are not seeing film grain? How powerful is your loupe?

I'm not seeing film grain of a 12 x Loop it would pretty hard to take a picture of the cracks with a cell phone.

 

I just shot another roll of pan F and I'm going to develop it tomorrow night I'm going to make sure all of my chemicals are the exact same temperature I'm going to carefully put it on the real and see the results.

 

I'm going to Google the the word for the cracked negatives and see if there's any photos that I can look at to see and compare to mine it would be difficult for me to take pictures and for you to be able to see it with just a phone.