michael_doran Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 I am seeking some help about a photo job I am uncomfortable with. I placed an add on a Facebook job specifically looking for models. I had a person reach out to me about doing some family pictures. We discussed my prices and scheduled the session. After we scheduled the session, they proceeded to send me the last picture they had done together and it was a picture of them with Neo-Nazi flags and banners. I am not comfortable with this at all and I did not respond back yet to the message. I am looking for help before I respond because I am scared. I do not want to do this because of the ramifications that this may bring. I am also afraid that I if I say no after the fact that I scheduled the session, it will lead to other ramifications. I only scheduled the session we did not sign anything in terms of paperwork or anything like that. Just scheduled a session. That is all. Can I refuse the job because I am not comfortable with the session at all? I am in no way shape or form a racist nor do I believe any of the ideology. Looking for some help here. Any direction would be great. Again I am really scared here and just need some advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhooru Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 Well, its a choice you have to make. It seems you know you don't want to do it. What ramifications are you worried about? That no-one on the alt-right will want to hire you? In short, if you think they are neo-nazis and you don't want to take pictures of them, then don't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2d Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 (edited) Delete Edited September 15, 2019 by 2d -------------- My Architectual Photography: Architectural-Cinematographer.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Parsons Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 I can understand, and sympathise fully with your dilemma - surely the easiest way would be to reply and say that you are sorry, but that you cannot currently undertake this assignment, and wish them luck in finding another photographer. No explanation, no comments on their lifestyle, just plain and simple. You have not stated where you are, but I am assuming the USA. I do not know what the law is regarding such activities - maybe a local community law expert could assist you, free of charge ? Good luck anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_doran Posted September 15, 2019 Author Share Posted September 15, 2019 Well, its a choice you have to make. It seems you know you don't want to do it. What ramifications are you worried about? That no-one on the alt-right will want to hire you? In short, if you think they are neo-nazis and you don't want to take pictures of them, then don't. I guess my biggest worry is getting sued for discrimination as crazy at it sounds these days. If you read my original post. We discussed my prices and scheduled the session first, I did not know who/what the person was until after scheduling the session. It was then after the scheduling they sent me a photo with their neo-Nazi propaganda. I definitely do not want to do the session at all. I am wondering how to approach the situation with tact, that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_doran Posted September 15, 2019 Author Share Posted September 15, 2019 I can understand, and sympathise fully with your dilemma - surely the easiest way would be to reply and say that you are sorry, but that you cannot currently undertake this assignment, and wish them luck in finding another photographer. No explanation, no comments on their lifestyle, just plain and simple. You have not stated where you are, but I am assuming the USA. I do not know what the law is regarding such activities - maybe a local community law expert could assist you, free of charge ? Good luck anyway. Thanks Tony, much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck909 Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 I guess my biggest worry is getting sued for discrimination In this age of PC, getting sued for refusing to photograph neo-nazis is hardly likely. But heck, if you did end up getting sued, you can bet that 37 lawyers would be lined up to take your case pro bono. Tact? Forget tact. Stand up for what is right. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 Just say NO! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylynn Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 Are they saying they want more photos with nazi symbols?You have a right to free speech as an artist, which includes the right to not create art that promotes racist politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDMvW Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 Posting this publicly may not have been a good idea, but simply saying that you can't do the job (no explanation needed or advisable) is probably best. These people may well be dangerous, so cutting off communication is good. Arguing with them will only inflame their sense of "injury". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanford Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 A lot of photographers would relish the opportunity to photograph that world from the inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Vongries Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 Sanford has a point - immediately become a "Documentarian" and you can photograph anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Peri Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 Just say you need a signed contract, then fill it with conditions nobody in their right mind would sign. :eek: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Reid Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 My guess is that they sent you the photo in order to give you a chance to back out now rather than later: from a purely practical point of view, they wouldn't be wanting a photographer who didn't want to be there. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't hesitate to turn down the job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_bowring Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 If you do not feel comfortable doing it then don't do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samstevens Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 A lot of photographers would relish the opportunity to photograph that world from the inside. Then “a lot of photographers” should go right ahead and take the job. We know at least one photographer, Michael Doran, who doesn’t want to do it. So I suggest to Michael, who asked the question, no further contact. "You talkin' to me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles_stobbs3 Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 The fact that they sent you previous photos with flags may have been to inform you what they want and may have been to give you a chance to refuse if you were uncomfortable with such photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Parsons Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 Just say you need a signed contract, then fill it with conditions nobody in their right mind would sign. :eek: Does 'In their right minds' actually apply in this case ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbing Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I guess my biggest worry is getting sued for discrimination as crazy at it sounds these days. If you read my original post. We discussed my prices and scheduled the session first, I did not know who/what the person was until after scheduling the session. It was then after the scheduling they sent me a photo with their neo-Nazi propaganda. I definitely do not want to do the session at all. I am wondering how to approach the situation with tact, that is all. Once you discovered the content they wanted you to photograph, of course, you can decline the job. These days your own reputation could be on the line if it turns out you were the photographer. People could accuse you of supporting those values. If they had wanted you to , for example, take nude photos of their underage children...you would refuse that too. You could pesonally get into trouble. I think you have to protect your professional reputation and your personal values and decline this contract. You original negotiations were based on incomplete information and you would not have negotiated as far as you did had you known what you later found out. If a baker can decline to bake a cake...you can decline to take a photo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan2240 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Interesting problem. If you normally do this type of photography, it's likely you often photograph people with beliefs and/or ideologies that don't match your own, but you simply don't know it. Since you already set everything up, perhaps you can tell them that you'll gladly take their pictures, but you aren't comfortable with those particular props. If they still want the shots, make sure you write into the contract, and make them fully aware, that any props used in the pics are subject to the approval of the photographer. That's probably something that should be in there anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhooru Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 I guess my biggest worry is getting sued for discrimination as crazy at it sounds these days. If you read my original post. We discussed my prices and scheduled the session first, I did not know who/what the person was until after scheduling the session. It was then after the scheduling they sent me a photo with their neo-Nazi propaganda. I definitely do not want to do the session at all. I am wondering how to approach the situation with tact, that is all. Was money exchanged? Does your standard contract have language that covers this type of situation. I think there are precedents. I believe a bakery didn't want to make a cake for a gay marriage. I think there was a lawsuit but don't know what the outcome is. If you are facing this dilemma, then you probably need to consult an attorney in your jurisdiction. Or call the ACLU and see if they will advise you, though they might side with the client. Are suspected neo-nazis a protected class when it comes to discrimination. There's just a lot of legal questions that you will probably not get proper advice on from a forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanKlein Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Did they tell you why they sent the "sample" photo? Was there a message with it? Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruslan Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Did you ever think that it was a prank? :) What was the end of the story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_doran Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 Was money exchanged? Does your standard contract have language that covers this type of situation. I think there are precedents. I believe a bakery didn't want to make a cake for a gay marriage. I think there was a lawsuit but don't know what the outcome is. If you are facing this dilemma, then you probably need to consult an attorney in your jurisdiction. Or call the ACLU and see if they will advise you, though they might side with the client. Are suspected neo-nazis a protected class when it comes to discrimination. There's just a lot of legal questions that you will probably not get proper advice on from a forum. No money was exchanged, just discussed my fee and talked scheduling. We also talked about doing a family session. We talked about a good time to meet. I received the picture after the fact and then they told me what they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_doran Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 I want to thank everyone for the support and advice. I just wanted to follow up with all that helped out and update you. I also did some more research, talked to a few business people in my area, a few legal and law enforcement people as well, crafted what I felt was a dignified and respectful response, had it proofread by some people and sent the message to decline the session. I am patiently waiting for a response, if I get one. So if you pray, send good vibes, or good thoughts please do. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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