need a new point and shoot

<p>Hi People</p>

<p>hope you all have been well. I browse from time to time but havent been spending much time on line lately.still shooting with my K100D though</p>

<p>my kodak Z612 which I have mentioned and posted pictures taken with it here had an accident. someone knocked it off a piece of furniture and subsequently I lost the shutter button and the lens doesnt seem to extend or retract as smoothly as it once did. it is also 3-4 years old and a camera that is a daily throw in the back of the car kind of camera. dont get me wrong, I take care of it as well as I do my pentax but it is an everyday.<br>

so I ordered a M580 and it was terrible. I am a liitle leary of the Z981 so naturally I went to Pentax</p>

<p>2 cameras caught my eye</p>

<p><a href="http://www.pentaximaging.com/digital-camera/Optio_I-10_White/">http://www.pentaximaging.com/digital-camera/Optio_I-10_White/</a></p>

<p>I love the look but I know I am giving up a lot of MM compared to the Kodak but I may just have to get it cause its so damn attractive</p>

<p>then I see this badboy</p>

<p><a href="http://www.pentaximaging.com/digital-camera/X90/">http://www.pentaximaging.com/digital-camera/X90/</a></p>

<p>YES!!</p>

<p>looks a lot like the Z612 and or the Z981 but it has the name I prefer on it</p>

<p>what do you think??</p>

<p>Chris, <br /><br />the only camera I can recommend to photographers is the Samsung TL500.<br /><br />this camera iq wise is amazing, build is top notch, and between the fast lens and big sensor it's the best camera on the market. <br /><br />Pentax best point and shoot is it's W line, simply because they are the best in the class of tough cameras, but lack the IQ for really high quality imaging from a small sensored camera.</p>

<p>You can pocket the first one, but not the second one. But that trait means nothing to me. But what's not to like about either one? I have no experience with either camera, my recent compacts were a Canon A700(?) from almost 5 years ago, and more recently a Panasonic LX3 bought spring '08. The new Panasonic LX5 had me so close to replacing the LX3, but I'm waiting to spend my bucks on a K-5. But, if the X90 is the way you are thinking, I may offer the suggestion of the Kx/Kr DLSR with a wide ranging zoom lens. Yeah, you won't find an interchangeable zoom lens that gives that kind of range, but then again you aren't going to hand hold a shot at 676mm. Heck, I have trouble hand holding my Pentax 55-300 at 300mm, I'm on a tripod just about anytime over 200mm. But the Kx/Kr will give a much larger sensor (and that renowned Kx low light/high ISO/low noise superiority) and probably other upgrade features the prosumer X90 probably wouldn't offer. Compare them side by side.<br>

Here's a good site to research compact camera, see what they have to say. <br>

<a href="http://seriouscompacts.com/">http://seriouscompacts.com/</a> Or check DPReviews, too, to see if you can find reliable review information on any camera you may consider. Heck, even user reviews at Amazon/Adorama/B&H would be helpful.<br>

<a href="http://seriouscompacts.com/"></a></p>

<p>Christopher, I am going to have to disagree with Justin. iF you want the best cam then it is the Lumix LX-5 .Amazing auto focus speed and noise control.. Of course it comes down to Context. I am sure that for Justin, the TL500 is the best in the same way my LX-5 is best for me....<br>

Here is my LX-5 collection of images so far.<br>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgredline/sets/72157624972355191/detail/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgredline/sets/72157624972355191/detail/</a></p>

<p>Justin, but the I-10 is just so damn cute!</p>

<p>thanks to you all for the responses so far. Steve, I have DP preview in my fav's and check them frequently but thank you for the other one</p>

<p>Javier, I am getting the popcorn ready to see this escalate between you and Justin...lol</p>

<p>here is what I am doing....I have the DSLR that I use for serious shooting.<br>

the Kodak Z612 was my first Digital I got after using the K1000 for nearly 30 years. I was spoiled by that little camera because of the image quality that I got. Some of you "pro Level" guys would probably PFT at what I think is a good shot but for me they were awesome.<br>

I just want something I can whip out and take a quick picture with for those times where I am not lugging my "gear" around. again the 35-420 with 5X digital zoom of the Z spoiled me.<br>

I just bought my Wife a Canon sd1400 IS Elf and it takes great pictures but it is a little too small for me.</p>

<p>Not sure how those pictures are on the bottom of the page but the on of my wife was one of the first shots I took with my Z I believe<br>

thanks again for the suggestions...I will research those and let you know what I come up with.</p>

<p>How you guys doing otherwise?<br>

any mountain climbing lately Justin?<br>

Javier...I got to see what new lovely ladies you have stalked in the streets recently...been postng any?</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Ok so those few picture I have posed are with the Z....Justin you "Know" those buildings. I know "now" that if you 100% them you can see massive noise but wouldnt you agree that for a Kodak camera those pictures are phenomenal for a beginner ?? not to mention the Zoom capability. thats why I feel spoiled with the Z</p>

<p>Great Question !</p>

<p>Panny LX-5 , Canon G-12 are the two on my short list, from a specs only perspective.</p>

<p>We've got low numbered floor seats for Roger Waters 30th anniversary of "The Wall" Tour.<br>

I am seeing alot of utube video clips of the shows.</p>

<p>Makes me want to take top end video p&s to capture a momento of his last Pink Floyd tour. <br>

I see so many cameras, camera phones at concerts past couple years.<br>

Seems worth the risk to capture the moment. Wish I had images from his prior tours I saw:<br>

Radio Kaos in 87, In The Flesh in 2000, Dark Side of the Moon in 2008</p>

<p>Please tell me Javier, do you have</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/650266-REG/Panasonic_DMW_LVF1_DMW_LVF_1_External_Live_View.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/650266-REG/Panasonic_DMW_LVF1_DMW_LVF_1_External_Live_View.html</a></p>

<p>for your Panny LX-5 ?</p>

<p>Anybody got a Canon G12 ?</p>

<p>I don't expect rain inside the venue, so weather sealed or a fully dunk-able camera isn't needed.<br>

Just something I can tuck in my undies for a bit would do me just fine<br>

;^)</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Lindy.<br>

Having owned a G9 and a G10, I can say that the G12 is likely pretty good. My biggest concern would be the poor ISO performance those G series cams have. Though I am not sure and maybe they fixed that in the G12. Another thing to consider is the 24mm lens as opposed to the 28mm lens the canons come with. The LX-5 also has an amazing step zoom feature that is pretty cool. The ISO performance is on par with my K-7 so it is pretty dang good for a point and shoot. ISO 1600 is very use full. <br>

As for the view finder, I do not have one and don't plan on getting one. <br>

I have not used the video capture in the LX-5 and really don't plan to. Of course I am glad to have it, but I am not a video kind of guy. </p>

 

<p>SWEET, your info puts Panny ahead of Canon then.</p>

<p>I am brand agnostic when it comes to a P&S, just something top tier will do nicely</p>

<p>I've never owned a video cam, so I am clueless. Panny seems a heck of of a deal, $445, so $55 less than G12.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/723288-REG/Panasonic_DMC_LX5K_Lumix_DMC_LX5_Digital_Camera.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/723288-REG/Panasonic_DMC_LX5K_Lumix_DMC_LX5_Digital_Camera.html</a></p>

<p>Then I may add finder so additional $125 or $70 more total than G12.<br />I think it would be stealthier with this plug in viewfinder at a concert</p>

<p>Do you use autofocus, or manual focus with it. Idiot modes or select your settings ?</p>

<p>Thanx for info, Master of the Street Scene !</p>

<p>That TL-500 wasn't anywhere near my shopping radar.</p>

<p>Intriguing read and just $419.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674231-REG/Samsung_EC_TL500ZBPBUS_TL500_Digital_Point_and.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674231-REG/Samsung_EC_TL500ZBPBUS_TL500_Digital_Point_and.html</a></p>

<p>I got rid of my Samsung K Mounts in a unbelieveable lucky trade, not sure I want to buy any cameras branded Samsung again. </p>

<p>On the phone one day with Samsung, they had no idea they had offered (ANY) K Mount cameras.<br>

This turned me off on their imaging products.</p>

<p>I could enjoy the LX-5 with its "Leica" lens. Friend owns LX-3, I actually talked him into by providing him B&H specs a year or so ago.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Javier</p>

 

<h4>LX-5 Meets Broadway L.A. (17) is that the guy who was in a RHCP video years ago?</h4>

 

<h4>LX-5 meets HW (1) :)</h4>

 

<h1 id="title_div5084871491" >LX-5 meets walk of fame (22)</h1>

<p>IN NY everyone looks up...lol</p>

<p>what a goofy expression on the dude looking at Basil Rathbone's star...ya think he even knows who that is??</p>

<p>Javier,</p>

<p>I think we'd probably be splitting hairs between the LX3/5 and Canon options to the TL500 (EX1 world wide). IQ and lens wise the TL500 is the best camera, but the firmware is lacking. However, there really isn't a need to menu dive, as a matter of fact I encourage everyone to look at the control layout <a href="http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/camera-camcorder/digital-cameras/compact/EC-EX1ZZZBPBGB/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail">here</a>. Dual (independent) control wheels and buttons and knobs for everything including EV comp, shutter and aperture. It's as close to an SLR in design as possible...and, it does sort of fit in a pocket. I know because I did pocket it on a few occasions. But I'd say the S90 would be better for pocketing.<br>

<br /><br />I forget what site I was on, something like Compact Enthusiast???. Any way, it matched the lens of the LX5 vs. the TL500, the LX5 lost. It was good, the TL500 was just better. Remember, we are splitting hairs! I will try to track down the link, I usually tag em in delicious or webclip them to Evernote.</p>

<p>Factoring in it's faster aperture, I'd have to say it wins the battle of the lens hands down.</p>

<p>(Lindy, see what I just wrote above, Panasonic has a Leica lens, Samsung has a better lens. It all depends on if you want a fancy name or a fancy lens).</p>

<p>Where the TL500 lacks is video. That said, I haven't used a single second of video shot on my K-7, including the only record of a trip we took in July when the K-7 shutter failed (video worked fine). I'm just not a video guy, and if you are the same the 640x480 res of the TL500 will be just fine for you. Heck, I don't even have HD video editing software...I have to down convert my videos to SD to edit them. Essentially the samsung solves that issue ;-)!</p>

<p>I seem to remember the head to head ISO shots on that same site, the TL500 had better noise control and detail than the competitors (although I don't remember if that was LX3 or LX5). Again, not mind blowingly better, but noticable. Bearing in mind this wasn't a fancy DXO test, rather it was 100% JPEGS posted to the web for you and I to look at and decide for ourselves. That said, there was little room for interpretation.</p>

<p>Factoring in now the ISO and the lens, the TL500 is coming out further ahead.</p>

<p>So, I'm gonna stick with the TL500 as being the best camera with the caveat that I am sure the LX5 and G12 are able competitors. I know the G12 probably stuffs every possible bell and whistle into that camera. It would have to, my G3 from 2004 or so didn't leave a feature out and it is 6 years old! However, when i sat down and thought about it, I need 3 things...aperture, shutter speed, and ISO and full manual control (focus, etc)...beyond that, it's all marshmallow fluff!</p>

<p>Although these were all posted in the POTWs here are a few images from the TL500 via the <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/mountainvisions/sets/72157624951845024/">TL500 set</a>.</p>

<p>Oh and did I mention that BIG BEAUTIFUL SWIVELING 3.0in VGA OLED screen? Double the resolution of the Panasonic LCD!</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>That TL-500 wasn't anywhere near my shopping radar.<br>

Intriguing read and just $419.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>If you shop around you can get it for less. I paid roughly $365 for it at Onecall, I've used them a lot over the years and never had a problem. I consider them a reliable and trustworthy seller. Judging by it's build and it's lens quality, it's certainly worth $350 minimum when compared to the competition, and $450 isn't untirely unreasonable.</p>

<p>Samsung was never really in the DSLR game, accessories were hard to find, lenses non existent, and they were just releasing Pentax clones.They probably never made any money off the DSLR division.</p>

<p>But they are heavily in the digital compact market, as well as the mirrorless SLR (or ILC) market. Both of these markets are more the realm of an electronics manufacturer.Their compacts were always on my radar, but I refused to buy a compact till something like the LX3 came out.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Lindy, its tough coming here and posting a question because these guys ALWAYS send me looking in other directions....LOL<br>

Not a bad thing but still....</p>

<p>Justin, I really as always appreciate your opinions but you are going overkill for what I was looking at. I am not looking for something to be as good as a SLR or to replace it. I have been spoiled with the image quaility( my needs) by the Z and just want something that is not sos cumbersome> until I saw Steves Link I dikdnt even realize the I-10 was a subcompabct.<br>

what is that L or I -10 anyway?? lol</p>

<p>I actually thought the L-10 was the size of a Kodak 135 instamatic from the picture.</p>

 

<p>I don't think Pentax makes their P&S, that division got closed down by Hoya.<br />Maybe the W90 is still manufactured by "Pentax" ? Or does it say:<br />"Designed By Pentax" too ?<br /><br />Nikon is in same situation, from what I read they no longer manufacture their P&S.</p>

<p>I agree, Justin complicated things by adding in Samsung when I was happily choosing between two, LX-5 and G-12</p>

<p>From what I recall the problem with Pentax P&S is their even smaller sensor, not that these P&S use big sensors.</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format</a></p>

<p>Go to DPR and use their compare camera feature...</p>

<p>The LX3/5 vs. G11/12 vs. S90/95 vs. EX1/TL500 vs. GRD vs. the new P7000 really come down to personal preferences and style imo.</p>

<p>They are all win some, lose some depending on what YOU want in a digicam imo.</p>

<p>For instance, if you need OVF, it will rule out everyone one except the P7000 and G11/12<br /> if you need tiny, then it comes down to S90/95 and GRD<br /> if you need the really wide then it's the LX3/5 and EX1, the rests start @28mm `<br /> ETC...<br>

These are the bigger sensor P&S not including superzooms, of course.</p>

<p>I couldn't find LX-5 or G-11 or G-12 reviews at dpreview.</p>

<p>Please share the review links ?</p>

<p>The G12 is a minor upgrade from the G11 which is another minor upgrade from the G10. The LX5 upgrades from the LX3 are lens is longer at the tele end 60mm vs. 90mm and AF faster among other things...</p>

<p>Not sure about reviews (They are recent and not major upgrades imo) but I would look at seriouscompacts.com or try google.</p>

<p>Or if you prefer DPR then lookt the the g10 and LX3 review, they are 80-90% similar to their newer replacement</p>

<p>Thom is planning a big article on better P&S in the future. But for me, I'd like to buy in next two weeks. I've handled G12 locally. Canon added the wheel in front and video to G-12. I like its optical viewfinder too, making it a stealth concert shooter, I'd guess.<br>

I've yet to handle LX-5, but wider angle is appealing. Everyone seems to love Canon S90, S95 for "pocketable" cam. As I am looking for great bootleg video cam, best one for video would be most important to me, along with stills cam to use in future.</p>

<p>Thom Hogan talked about his LX-5, yesterday Oct 18th:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bythom.com/">http://www.bythom.com/</a></p>

<p><em><strong>"New Stuff: Panasonic LX5 Short Take</strong></em><em><strong><br /></strong></em><em>Oct 18 </em><em>(</em><em>commentary)--</em>I'll eventually have a complete update to my Compact Shootout article (originally P6000, G11, LX3, this time P7000, G12, LX5), but I thought to be fair, I'd do short takes on each as I've had a chance to use them a bit. I've already written about the P7000 (now on the 2010 Nikon News archive page). Today the LX5.<br />There was a lot to like about the LX3, and I'm happy to report that Panasonic apparently understood what that was and stuck with it. Going from a LX3 to an LX5 is almost a no-brainer, as the new camera and it's controls are near identical to the older version. <br />So what's different? The lens is 24-90mm instead of the previously restrictive 24-60mm (but still a fast f/2 at 24mm, and only f/3.3 at 90mm). The joystick has been replaced by a command dial. There's a 1/4000 shutter speed added. And there's now the option of adding the GF1's EVF viewfinder. Plus, of course, the sensor has been updated, with the claim of an expanded dynamic range. There are other small changes, too, but none that are particularly significant to our discussion.<br />The body looks the same, but actually, it's a teeny bit different, which a redesigned grip that makes it easier to hold. The LX5 is also slightly heavier than the LX3, but you'll still find this an incredibly light camera (lighter and smaller than the P7000 and G12). Overall, this is a very photographer-centric camera: while it's not at all retro and doesn't have all the dials and buttons of the P7000 and G12, it takes only a few minutes to understand how to get quick access to the things you want to change frequently. The only complaint I have is that, like virtually all Panasonic LCD displays, the overlays are so busy that it becomes a bit problematic for framing, so you end up turning the overlay information off and on a lot (including the histogram, which needs a bit of work of its own). Panasonic needs to carefully rethink what information the shooter needs, when they need it, and how it is displayed.<br />As before, people want to know about image quality. Pretty darned good, actually. The LX5 definitely is a step forward from the LX3, which was pretty good itself. But it's that fast lens that really shakes things up in the serious compact race: f/2 is already a stop faster than the f/2.8 of the Coolpix (at 90mm, the Coolpix is only down two-thirds of a stop, though, at f/4). Put another way, the Panasonic sensor could perform one stop worse than the Nikon's in low light and the image should still come out about the same if you used aperture to compensate. But from what I see, the sensors are pretty close, so that extra stop on the lens does indeed give the Panasonic an advantage, I think. I'll know more when I've managed to go through all my testing procedures.<br />The LX5 is no speed demon shooting raw, but it's faster than the P7000. And a full buffer flush appears to be about three times faster (5 seconds instead of 15). Focus speed generally is faster with the LX5 than the P7000, but not always--the P7000 seems to do better when the AF Assist light is needed, for instance.<br />Overall, the LX5 feels a bit more like what I want a compact camera for than the P7000: wide to moderate telephoto, usuable in modest low light, small enough for a shirt pocket, and simple enough to fully control in the heat of battle. We'll see how that all stacks up against the competitors soon, but I'm carrying the LX5 more than the P7000 at the moment, which should tell you something."</p>

<p>The I-10 is kind of cute but really doesn't hold a candle to the premium compacts being discussed here, nor would we expect it to based on the huge price difference.</p>

<p>One of the bigger differentiators among the cameras discussed is the zoom range and speed, the cameras are all reasonably competitive otherwise (though I haven't seen tests yet to verify that the new Nikon P7000 doesn't have a few flaws like sluggish AF that have plagued some of their earlier efforts in this category).</p>

<ul>

<li>Samsung TL500: 24-72/1.8-2.4</li>

<li>Panasonic LX5: 24-90/2-3.3</li>

<li>Canon S95: 28-105/2-4.9 (only one that is pocketable but sacrifices include loss of hotshoe)</li>

<li>Canon G12: 28-140/2.8-4.5</li>

<li>Nikon P7000: 28-200/2.8-5.6</li>

</ul>

<p>Other differentiators: optical viewfinder, accessory electronic viewfinder, whether or not rear LCD swivels, video shooting specs<br>

I think most of us here wish that Pentax was playing in this field, that they could bring what we like about their SLR cameras to a premium compact...but so far they have not. Another issue is that these cameras are nearly as expensive as the entry-level for the larger-sensored MILC cameras like Olympus E-PL1, but the MILC cameras unavoidably grow quite a bit in size when a zoom lens is mounted but offer considerably better performance in many areas--for one, the premium compacts generally offer sluggish raw throughput/continuous shooting.</p>

 

<p>I would also put the GRD3 in there and it's also pocketable like the S90/95 and a F1.9 but prime lens. The LX3/5 is right on the border as for pocketable. The Nikon, G11/12 and EX1 are not really pocketable except for very large pockets. It's a tough decision...</p>

<p>Milc ?</p>

<p>Here's an EVIL sales chart at Amazon US, top 50 sales:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/2322738011?ie=UTF8&ref_=pd_ts_e_nav">http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/2322738011?ie=UTF8&ref_=pd_ts_e_nav</a></p>

<p>I agree, once you approach $500 then why not Milc, or cheap dslr, or why not spend even more and get what you really want ?</p>

<p>I'd like to add a P&S. Though I could skip The Wall concert momento shots / video and buy another lens. Thats always a fun choice. $500 puts a dent in a couple lenses on my wish list. Well one or the other, not both.</p>

<p>I bet if people are around me shooting, then I'll see concert footage posted from the night of the show, somewhere on the net. If not, then we'll have same binocular assisted memories we usually capture, in our heads.</p>

<p>Hey, any advise on buying binoculars oufitted as HD digital camera ?</p>

<p>;^)</p>

<p> <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=binocular+digital&ci=978&N=4294249681">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=binocular+digital&ci=978&N=4294249681</a></p>

<p>seriouscompacts.com sounds like the site I got my decision to buy info off.</p>

<p>the tl500, et al. Is still significantly more compact than all but the tiniest ilcs...beyond that it becomes an issue of small vs fiddly. The lenses on the ilcs are the issue. Believe me, I know because I was all set to go Oly Pen instead of compact.<br /><br />the TL500 WILL fit into a front pocket on your non skinny jeans, and definitely a cargo pocket. My issue is that it's tanl like build makes it heavy for pocketing...but in a pinch it's fine!<br /><br />one think to remember these high end compacts actually rival micro 4/3 IQ. Not bad for a self contained unit that is borderline pocketable and has a 3-4X zoom at around F/2!</p>

MILC: mirrorless, interchangeable lens camera.