Nationally Recognized Pro Wedding Gurus vs. Local Photographers

Over the past year, I've been photographing at some of the larger

venues in my area. Sometimes these venues have 2-3 weddings going on

at the same time. I've run into few well known pros who have

established themselves in the wedding industry - either by

publishing books and/or teaching at seminars. And when I look at

their routine work and watch them go through their paces, I'm

starting to realize they're not doing things all that much

differently than some of us out there. In other words, jeez, I'm not

seeing that much of a difference in their images from the ones I'm

shooting at the wedding next door.

 

Do you ever get the feeling that some of their work in books is a

model setup? Or that they really don't produce images like the ones

in their books/seminars on a consistent basis? I've been striving to

produce the same quality (not necessarily the same style) and I'm

doing well. I have a tremendous amount of respect for their

marketing expertise and the rapport they build with customers, but

*sometimes* I think they're not all they're cracked up to be. Could

it be we're seeing photography work that builds a professional,

nationally recognized reputation of these photographers that's not

necessarily accurate?

 

It isn't all of them. We have a couple of locals that have

published books that really do live up to their reputations. But

then there are times when I hear a name pop up and I want to

say, "Ummmmm, yeah, but go check through the images they shot at

their last wedding and tell me if they look anything like what they

produced in that book!"

Unless you shove aside the photographers head and look through the viewfinder just as he

or she shoots, how can you judge what they are capturing?

 

I once saw a movie where a famous photographer went out for a day of shooting. The

scenarios looked ordinary and pedestrian ... until they showed the images he had

captured. It is personal vision that transforms the ordinary into the extraordinary.

 

My wife (who often accompanies me to weddings) has continuously remarked that the

images we end up with make it look better than it actually was. In a way, that's part of the

job I think.

80% of those big name gurus is just marketing hype, guys trying to maintain or increase their share of the pie. Actually, there's a tremendous amount of marketing hype involved in the wedding photography industry in general. The photojournalistic trend has gotten ridiculous as well.

 

There's no magic bullet perspective, flash synch speed, or decisive moment - although the gurus swear by it.

 

The Wedding Photography industry has gotten too damn phony in some parts.

I've seen a few photo-magazine articles where several high-profile photogs spent a

day in one place, such as the Lincoln Memorial or wherever. Their photos were very

interesting, beautifully lit, and technically excellent. (So Ray really is da Man....)

 

"Brandon's Dad"

Andre, do you shoot weddings? There are no wedding images in your p.n. portfolio, and

your home page isn't available.

 

Have you met any of these so called highly hyped pros? Talked to them in person? Seen

how they actually work? IMO, it's nice that they share their perspectives, and if they

charge a fee for a seminar, why not? They worked hard to get where they are at, just like

in any industry.

The wedding photography world isn't all that big. Photographers have to rely on word of mouth. If you don't deliver what your portfolio stands for wedding after wedding, people will know soon enough and you wouldn't be able to charge the big money anymore. A photographer that is able to keep his prices up, must deliver good quality over and over again.

Everybody can take some good pictures, not everyone can promise you those up front.

 

If you want to get to the bottom of something like this you'll have to approach every photographer individually. It's no use saying something about the whole industry. Call a few clients of 'big' wedding photographers and ask them if their photographer was its money's worth.

Several ingredients are necessary to attain success in wedding photography. Many of them I'm just in the beginnning stages. A devloped style of capturing images that appeals to your customer, a style that is constantly refined, working at and thinking how can I capture this better is quite important.

 

Getting along with people, having a pleasant demeanor is absolutely necessary. I have met some photographers who can produce prints that the judges love but struggle with their business and other life issues. I've met people who do pretty good photography, don't win many awards but are a resounding success with family, friends, community and financially.

 

Being able to think on your feet from a formulated game plan, being creative at any given time because of changes, thinking ahead, but yet still pleasing the client is very important.

 

My recommendation would be to watch the entire package of any photographer. See how s(he) operates during a wedding. The good ones are able to move and flow, ebb and change, smile and make people feel loved and comfortable, all the while creating beautiful images.

 

I'm only working at it.

Bill, you hit the nail on the head when you said they do a great job throughout the wedding, going with the flow. They have a ton of experience under their sleeves and they know how to deal with practically any situation.

Everybody else - I want to be clear I'm not knocking every pro out there. There are some that are just phenonmenal no matter how you look at it. I'll give you a couple of great examples. I really like the work of Jeff & Kathleen Hawkins, and Rick & Deborah Ferro. I've seen the Ferros at seminars, and I've seen the Hawkins at weddings (not recently, though) and I think they deliver on what their books indicate they can do.

 

Hmmmmm... but there are a few others - and yes, I am seeing the basics either on the backs of their cameras, or seeing the shots as they set them up, and I've seen a few of their weddings online. It just doesn't make me think most of the others are doing anything all that different out there. I see others here on photo.net that are doing the same, if not better work.

 

This is a good discussion. The "How To" book market is huge, and in some cases I feel like we are sold a bill of goods that in no way represents reality. Maybe just something to aspire to. When you see the same images used in multiple books by different authors (with the photographer's permission, I assume) you start to get the feeling that those killer, ehtereal images that are heads and tails above all the other stuff photographers are producing are not quite as consistent as we're led to think.

 

Mark - you are right as well. They've worked hard to get where they're at, and a little success isn't a bad thing.

Behind a lot of the pros is not always so much the images they produce but MARKETING. Our local $20k photographer> has a top-notch-wife with superb marketing skills! She works hard 7 days a week..with 3 shooters and two office personel ..they average 5000 digital images a week. SO no, not all their images are supendous...just lots of editing...and "how~to~sell" skills. We have hired one of their PS staff >> for a corporate "powerpoint" show, we have contracted this week. He mainly stays busy, just editing all week, for their studio.

Certainkly, there is some sizzle (as there is, when the car salesman tries to sell you the new Mercedes R class), but there surely is some beafy steak there with all of the best know wedding photographers.

 

Now, you might want to debate whether you think that Mike Colon's clients should be better off with hiring Huy Nguyen or vice versa. But the same thing goes for BMW drivers that might have got a better deal than Mecedes drivers. Bur some are just in it for the special mix of features the Mercedes offers.

 

And, just maybe, those clients of these high profile photographers might see stuff that you simply don't - or put more mildly - they might value some aspects (client service, aesthetics, presentation, manners) more than others might value the discount offer.

 

Actually, Chris, your questions reads a bit like: Why do people pay top dollars for works of artists like Picasso or the like. Two answers out there: people see stuff, you don't. And there are constructs like markets where people react to other peoples' reactions. Thus, to come to your own judgements, do some serious research before buying (judging).

Huy Nguyen - Now, here's a guy whose work you should check out http://www.f8studio.com/f8/ He also does seminars: http://www.fworkshop.com/

 

This is the first year he is only doing wedding photography. Up until last year his day job was staff photographer for a Dallas newspaper. He really is a photojournalist.

Marc, there's just a lot of hype and silver bullet chasing in the wedding photography industry and you know it. I subscribed to Rangefinder and belonged to WPPI for two years. Very phony "whoopiee!" pictures, and it's like "what's the point?". A picture of the bride's toes? Some photoshopped-to-death or ridiculously over-painted backdrop? I didn't want to get involved trying to chase that tail.

 

It's the person in the picture that's important, and some basic nice light, and where approprate, a decent pose.

 

But if you're trying to get rich off wedding photgraphy, I understand you gotta posit yourself as the posessor of the silver bullet.

 

No I don't shoot weddings yet, I'll shoot for myself and keep my day job for now.

And when I do shoot weddings, I want to be 'The Local Guy" and nothing more.

Looking at various wedding photographer websites that I have come across over the last few weeks, all proclaiming a unique and special style, I am hugely encouraged by the fact that they're virtually all the same. Lots of smiling faces and nice clothes.

"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." Maybe it's not exactly true. But the people who are going to give seminars are the ones who are decent photographers and want to give seminars, not necessarily the best photographers. The ones who have books published are the ones who went to the trouble to write one. Maybe they made less money writing the book than they would have shooting weddings, even. But it doesn't mean they are the best at what they do, just that they wanted to write a book. I'm pretty good at some of what I do (nonphotographic work) but I know it can be a challenge to explain that to others.

 

I remember seeing a glamor guide sold a while back- and the first thought that struck my mind was that the cover photo just wasn't very glamorous! But the author wanted to sell books, and I suppose he did.

 

Another factor that may kick in, is that as you move up the scale of quality, you pay more and more for less and less additional quality. Once you get yourself established as "the best" in an area, and have quite a few well-heeled clients to hire you, the pay could go up considerably as compared to second-best or 10th-best.

<p>Funny thing about a Guru from Wikipedia: "guru is seen in these religions as a

sacred conduit for wisdom and guidance, and finding a true guru is often held to be a

prerequisite for attaining self-realization."</p>

 

<p>Self-realization being the funny end to the 'religion'.</p>

 

<p>Marketing is surely the reliable path to winning notoriety, but in some cases it's

bestowed on those that have earned it. Huy is one of them, and along with him the

unsung hero's of the "Wedding Photojournalist Association" (WPJA). If you have

the audacity to claim you can shoot everything presented in one of their contests in

a single wedding - you're well on your way to self-realizing guru status.</p>

 

<p>OTOH, I'm disappointed that great and unique images like those get thrown

under the rug for an <i>American Photo</I> article that might as well be a sort of

Google aggregate survey of names mentioned in the wedding industry this year.

This must be some kind of irony that prevents originality and style from really

coming to the top - probably the same force of nature that keeps every women's

magazine cover looking the same every month. You could probably learn a lesson

about where to put your energy from that!</p>

 

<p>The funny thing now however is that photo blogs and online-proofing can quickly

put to rest this question -- because these photographers are showing their work on a

week-in week-out basis and if you're looking, you can probably dig in and see their

whole shoot on their site, or their labs. So to take it out of retoric - go look for

yourself - I learned a lot when I did it. <a href="http://makelovereal.net">You can

see all my wedding photo updates</a> - <a href="http://makelovereal.com">or all

my wedding proofs</a> as I encourage brides and grooms to always look through a

full set and figure out how much personality, emotion and individualism they can see

in each wedding. That will give them a sense for the few brilliant moments during

the day, and the rest of the details and gestures that are uniquely personal and

equally valuable. The further I get along, the more I'm interested in making pictures

of the couple before me - and not necessarily trying to out-do my own best

images.</p>