Multiple Photographers?

I was watching the Today Show's annual wedding this morning,

photographed by Denis Reggie and team. This was a very high-end

wedding, and it struck me that it is not possible to provide

adequate services without using multiple photographers for that type

of wedding.

 

I counted at least two ladies-in-black assisting him, and I am sure

that there were others covering the bride and groom's prep as well

as the pre-ceremony guests and such.

 

I usually photograph mid-level weddings, and, for the past year I

have had the privilege of the help of another photographer for each,

and found this was most helpful.

 

I shy away from high-end wedding venues due to size, but, having

done a few, I found them extremely difficult as a lone photographer.

 

If you do high-end weddings (not referring to your fee but to the

venue size), how do you cover all that is expected by yourself, or

do you use assistants?

I heard Dennis in Vegas say he shoots 3,000 frames a day, and each other photographer shoots 1,500. That is a movie.

 

I can handle any "average" size wedding up to 250 guests alone. I only have a second photographer if the guest list is excessive or if the men and women are prepping in separate parts of town.

 

At the ceremony, I handle the aisle shots while my second shooter covers the party walking in. Brides love the wide angle rear view of themsleves walking down the aisle. I shoot the ceremony, while the other person shoots the expressions of guests and faimly (i.e., mom dabbing the tears).

 

At the reception, I shoot my own stuff, while the second shooter gets informal groups of guests interacting. While PJ style sells, you're right that brides want nice basic shots of their guests. It's hard to balance both at huge weddings.

 

For groups, I might have the second person shoot them, while I photograph people with a telephoto having fun between each frame.

We have 2 photographers at all but the smallest of weddings.

 

Once you have a system worked out with your shooting partner it's really hard to go back to shooting alone.

I shoot mainily mid-level weddings and some small weddings, as mentioned. Usually the guest list is from 150-200. When my friend worked with me the past two summers, it made everything so much easier.

 

Denis Reggie mentioned on the Today program that he prefers not to be seen and PJ photography is his signature style (my words), but he was interviewed while doing formal poses which he said he did for "family and historical" reasons, and while being interviewed, he was taking snaps and flashes could be seen going off so the formals were a bit informal.

 

I have had situations where I had to be at the hair dresser, then the groom's place, then the bride's place, then the church, and on and on, even for mid-level weddings.

 

I am now thinking that a good coverage needs two photographers, even at mid-level events, or else certain events need to be cut.

Yes Todd, i think it is crucial to have two photographers. I believe that every moment contains an action and reaction. For example there is the cutting of the cake (action) and then there is the expressions of the people watching (reaction). This is sometimes hard to get since most of the time the action/reaction happens almost simultaneously. I feel that for quality PJ work, both are of equal importance and have to be captured. I began this past spring explaining to all brides the importance of action/reaction and i offer a 2nd shooter as an A LA CARTE option. After understanding this importance, i've had more requests for the 2nd shooter option than i ever had before.

This question has been running through my mind all summer.

Most the freebie shots I have been turned over have been received with high acclaim.

 

Considering these were "practice" jobs I noticed that the hired photographer has his hands tied while shooting bride in home, groomsmen, and the drive to the church.

 

Because of his commitments I have nailed great limo shots bride going out of the house for last time, etc.

 

When I get the first job for hire I will miss the proximity to those other situations which I was able to clean up on because the hired guy had more pressing responsibilities.<div></div>

No hired guy for this one<div></div>

Thats what gets missed while shooting the groomsmen<div></div>

I'm thinking that you're talking large wedding as opposed to high-end weddings. I've covered weddings with over 400 guests and a wedding party with over 30 people in it (see photo) by myself without missing any of the important shots (also did backdrop shots of everyone in the bridal party along with several guests).

 

And I've covered weddings with less than 75 guests with an assistant working as a second shooter. I generally recommend a 2nd shooter at weddings with over 250 guests but alot of it comes down to what sort of coverage the client wants.<div></div>

A couple of months ago I tried asking a couple of questions to define what a "high-end" wedding is, but each one eventually was deleted due to an escalation of less than peaceful debate, so I don't want to go there again! (^O^)

 

However, let's say that a high-end wedding is one which carries a large price tag with a guest list of well over 300 people where there is an expectation by the client that every venue of the event is fully photographed.

 

However, even weddings having 75 guests can be difficult to photography if one has to be in more than one place at a time. Cost of the wedding then comes into the picture since we need to pay a decent amount to our assistant.

 

I've been thinking about this since I'm in the process of reorganizing my business, and I think Jammey's A La Carte photo assistant option and rationale is a good approach. Right now, without an assistant, I'm inclined to be up-front with my clients and just tell them that some events can not be photographed without an assistant.

Dave, how many pews did you have to take out to get back far enough?

Wow Dave - you beat me - I thought my 24 person wedding party was big!

 

Todd - I've shot up to 275 people weddings with two assistant and I'm the shooter. The trick is - I have two people doing everything for me and all I have to do is shoot. Above that I might consider a second shooter.. Having said that - some of my assistants take a shot here and there but don't qualify as a "second shooter"..

Larry, The church set up was pretty different in that there are only 2-3 rows of pews that directly face the altar while the long isles and most of the pews are to the East & West, so to speak, of the altar...the attached shot will show where most of the ceremony actually took place (East side).

 

If this wedding was covered by any of the larger studios that depend on reprint sales it would have been covered by at least two and maybe three other photographers. But because it was my studio, I'm happy concentrating on the B/G, family, and key people. I've worked with studios in the past that actually teach you to maximize reprint sales often at the expense of capturing the event.

 

It is nice to have another shooter who has a different eye and different style to help complete the day's events & I also agree with the action/reaction argument for two shooters...<div></div>

Todd,

 

To me, an assistant is one who carries equipment, helps me stay organized, and occasionally shoots if they're qualified. A second shooter is just that - a second photographer. Two different jobs, two different pay scales.

 

I almost always bring a second shooter with me even if it's for a medium sized wedding that I can easily handle alone. I've found that if I have a better selection of images, the client may be interested in an album and parents albums. So the second shooter is easily paid for via back end profits. I can't be everywhere, and sometimes telling my second shooters (all experienced photographers)to just go be creative and sneaky really results in some excellent images. To me, 50 very good images out of 500 exposures is well worth it. I might get 5-10 killer images out of my second shooter that are album worthy, too.

 

At your price point ($800-1,000) it's very hard to justify paying a second shooter. I charge a bit more, and sometimes I have to stretch to afford them. But if you raised your prices and brought along one who knows their stuff, you *might* see a dramatic improvement in your bookings and sales.

 

There is a way to get a "free" second shooter. Start a network group of your peers and aspiring photographers. If you're free on a Saturday, go second shoot for another photographer. Then they can return the favor for one of your weddings - no money exchanges hands. It's a great way to take care of those larger weddings and avoid cash payments until you get your business off the ground. You need to be able to trust each other, though.

"If you do high-end weddings (not referring to your fee but to the venue size), how do you cover all that is expected by yourself, or do you use assistants?"

 

I don't think you're expected to cover it byself and chossing to do so is a diservice to your clients. Like a back-up body, I couln't imagine doing it without a second shooter. You get way more coverage, more thank-you's, more referals, and more peice of mind. Just make sure they show up with a flash bracket and diffuser...

Thanks Dave truly sharp work. It seems then that the second shooter as opposed to an assistant might be most handy if some PJ stuff is requested. It also means two people to lug the gear.

Eric, so you suppose I did my clients a diservice? Considering your expertise for "High end weddings", I figured I'd go to your website to see some samples of a real wedding pro....I didn't see any wedding coverage at all..are you holding back?

David,

 

I don't think Eric ment that as a personal attack directed toward you directly.

 

For a very large event it simple not possible to be everywhere at the same time. I do a disservice to my clients if I can't cover everything, and when that happens I need to let them know I can't get to the hairdresser's or the groom's house and such. Some things just must be cut out if we work alone.

 

Your photo is excellent. It is very hard to pose large groups, and the way you handled it in the church is perfect.

 

I correct myself: I do not mean "assistant" but "second photographer."

 

Up until a year and a half ago I did all my weddings by myself and sought out a niche of mid-level weddings that I could handle alone...few locations, moderately sized wedding party, and about 150 guests.

 

Occasionally, I got sucked into a very large wedding with many attendants and numerous locations which was very difficult to handle alone.

 

I still prefer mid-level events, but was blessed that a friend who wanted to get some wedding experience without pay helped me this past year, and we both concluded that the coverage was much better with two shooters. It is now my turn to happily help him when he gets his business going.

 

I can do the mid-level events alone, but I doubt I would try to photograph very large weddings again without charging the client for a second shooter.

 

How much do you charge the client for a second shooter based on your basic fee? I would want to pay him/her a good fee.

"Eric, so you suppose I did my clients a diservice? Considering your expertise for "High end weddings""

 

Yep, I do. If we agree what a high end wedding is, of course. A second shooter is the most important piece of equipment you can bring, in my opinion. There's just too much going on behind you. If we have the option and we chose not to hire one for the sake of a couple hundred bucks, yes, it's like cheaping out on the quality of film or the amount of shots we take.

 

 

 

"I didn't see any wedding coverage at all..are you holding back?"

 

not the way I'd word it, but yes, I chose to leave my wedding shots off my site. would you put landscape images or pet portraits on your wedding site? It's not the market I cater too.

 

"I figured I'd go to your website to see some samples of a real wedding pro..."

 

Thanks for your patronizing tone, David. It does the forum good. You must wonder what isn't on a site once in awhile? Or how out of date it must be? Or if it's even needed at all? I get asked to do about a dozen weddings a year. I do three to six depending on schedule. I get asked because of the lack of skill and capabilities of "real wedding pro?s" that can be found around here.

 

And I visited your site. I'm surprised to find you're so cheeky.

"I don't think Eric ment that as a personal attack directed toward you directly."

 

Thanks Todd. You're right, it wasn't an attack towards David or anyone. It's an opinion and an preference.

Eric and David,

 

I really don't want this question deleted. I'm working on a website, a new business plan, and I'm trying to get opinions and info.

 

Let's be at peace, please. Thank you.

 

Todd

Cheeky is as cheeky does.....

And so you felt the need to have the last word? This isn't the place for it.

 

Todd, there are ways to find second shooters in your area. I'll send you an email later today when I'm home. I have a few suggestions for you - things that are working for me. Might work for you. I don't want to open the thread to more sarcasm by posting it here.

Chris,

 

Thank you. I'm also thinking of creating a small informal network of photographers in my area (south San Francisco Bay Area around San Jose) for referrals and second shooter purposes.

David,

 

I reread one of your responses and noticed this:

 

"I've worked with studios in the past that actually teach you to maximize reprint sales often at the expense of capturing the event."

 

I had the same experience with a studio. The owner was very upset if I photographed anything that might not sell as an individual print.

 

My style is a blend of PJ (documentary) and traditional, and I do whatever I can to photograph the whole event rather than individual photos I can sell. I never was able to communicate that idea to the studio owner.

 

However, that is one of the reasons for my question here. Since I want to visually present the whole wedding story, I find it frustrating that I can not be everyplace at the same time!