Move from MF to Ebony RSW45?

Hi guys, I need a little advice from LF?ers and hear you are a friendly bunch.

 

I?ve been shooting landscape for about 3 years now and currently use an RB67

which I really love. I use 90mm about 70% of the time and 50mm for the

remainder and I realise this is strange split for landscape but ?normal? lenses

seem to work for me and I like the look the 90mm gives!

 

My problem is one of dof (especially with the 90mm). I often like shoot with

the camera low to the ground and stopping down to f/32 still doesn?t get me

sharp focus that close to the camera, I find this quite frustrating and limits

my compositions often. The 50mm is a little better, getting to about 3.5ft to

infinity stopped right down.

My landscapes are almost all seascapes or lakes (I live near the lake district

in the UK now) which I guess are ideally suited to tilt?

 

I?m not totally sure I?m ready to jump fully into 4x5, I often shoot between 6

and 15 frames and I don?t yet have the experience to be sure I have really ?got

it right? when I take the shot. I shoot almost only b&w, I develop it myself

but developing sheet film sounds difficult and involved compared with 120. My

prints are also usually 16x12 or 20x16 ? I have yet to ever print bigger than

this and the quality at these sizes from 6x7 with my film/dev combo is fine.

 

I recently read about the Ebony RSW45 and was quite interested. I?m only really

after the tilt movement anythiong else would be extra complication, it is

lighter than my RB, quick (by LF standards) to set up, and can be used with

roll film backs.

 

A few questions for those familiar with it:

 

1) How easy would it be to compose/focus low to the ground? My RB with the wlf

is great for this

 

2) Can I get a 6x7 roll film back for it?

 

3) Is the dark cloth always needed to focus? Will I have to manually mask off a

6x7 area on the groundglass? Are there accessory finders that can be used?

 

4) How much slower will the RSW45 be to use than the RB in the field?

 

5) Will my gitzo 1325 tripod be up to used with it or do I need the 15 series?

 

6) How do I know which lenses can be used with it? There seem to be

compatibility issues between cameras and lenses.

 

My plan (if I were to go this route) would be to get a fast 90mm lens are use a

roll film back (Nikon do a 90mm f/4.5 I think). When I make to jump to shooting

sheet film it will be a good wide angle lens and I could add a normal lens.

 

A lot of questions, thanks for any help!

I just finished reading Barry Thornton's 'Edge of Darkness' and 'Elements' books. He used a Rollei SL66 for a lot of his work and it has front tilt. You could stick with medium format and keep using the WLF and have front tilt if you go with one of these. There are some other medium format cameras with front movements. If all you need it front tilt a little Crown Graphic may be all you need.

 

I've been shooting large format for a little while and don't have a lot of experience but I think shooting close to the ground would be more difficult with large format compared to a camera with a WLF. The WLF in my TLRs is very nice to use close to the ground as long as I compensate for parallax. There are reflex viewers that should make ground level work with large format easier but I have no experience with those. I'm sure more experienced viewers will have more to say.

 

Scott

Mark,

 

I have an Ebony RSW45 that I used with a Gitzo 1348, which is more than enough tripod. I recently switched to a Gitzo GT2540L tripod which is a pound or so lighter, but still seems to be plenty of tripod for the Ebony. I built a right angle viewer that I use when I'm taking low level shots. The Ebony with handle up to a 180mm lens with reasonable close focusing. You might need a short extending depending on how close you are talking and I've used a 210mm with a 25mm extender. I also use a Nikon 270T, but it has limited movements. You can also purchase a extension for the back of the camera. It's $400-500. The RWS is optimized more for wide angle lens, but it sounds like it would work for equivalent lens to you MF. I also use a Mamiya 7 and it's not nearly as fast as that camera. It's not too bad, but I'd estimate 5 minutes is about a soon as I can get a shot off. Others may be faster.

Hi Mark - from another UK LF'er! It sounds as if the ability to use camera movements is exactly what you need. However, don't dismiss "other movements" as complicated - they are straightforward to use and can make a difference to the image.

 

The RSW is a fine camera - but it is a "specialist" model - NOT an "entry level" camera. However, it sounds as if the focal length lenses you plan on using are ideally suited to it!

 

When you use a view camera with movements you are able to include foreground interest while at the same time maintaining the correct height/placement of the background - this is achieved by ustilising either rising back, drop front or a combination of both. The RSW will allow you to drop the front standard but not raise the rear one - not a real problem though in 90% of "general" landscape shots. This type of movement means that you can still have the camera at a sensible height and include detail "on the floor".

 

You can use viewfinders on the RSW but most will require a modification to the camera - a good darkcloth is the best answer!

 

You can use all manner of roll film backs on the RSW - it has an International Back. There are a few makes of 120 film holder - Cambo, Toyo, Wista but the best/easiest to use are (probably) the Horseman range. These can be found in 6x7, 6x9 as well as 6x12 cms formats. The RSW will also take regular 5x4 darkslides, Polaroid 545 holders as well as Fuji Quickload/Kodak Readyload holders. The Horseman roll film backs attach to the camera by removing the ground glass and fixing with a pair of sliding tabs - very quick and easy to do.

 

You don't have to use a darkcloth - Robert White and Ebony sell viewing hoods - much like a bellows lens hood but attaching to the rear and providing shade for the screen. Masking the ground glass is simple - either draw some pencil lines, use self-adhesive tape (Halfords sell a thin black or red strip a mm or so wide that is meant as a stripe for car bodies - works well for grid lines on glass screens too!)or cut down a 6x7 or 6x9 transparency mask to fit the screen - easy.

 

The RSW is a very quick camera to use - the non-folding design means that a lens can be left attached and the camera simply dropped on the tripod head and away to go. With practice you'll find the RSW very intuitive to use and as quick as a 6x7 RB.

 

I use the Gitzo 1325 with both the RSW and the 45SU. I use a Manfrotto 410 Geared head - an excellent combination. I have used the 1325 with a 10x8 Deardorff without any problems either!

 

The RSW will use any LF lens as long as it fits into the focal length range of the camera - this is limited according to the length of the bellows. The RSW is designed for very wide lenses up to about a 180mm (just a few mms lomger than a "normal" lens). This means you can comfortably use a 47mm lens as well as a 180mm - longer lenses can be accommodated by using either an extension lens panel or a 452 extension back (nice but expensive!).

 

ANY make of lens can be used but there are some restrictions. The RSW is best suited to lenses in shutters of either Copal 0 or 1 sizes. The lens board can manage a Copal 3 shutter but only just and this shutter is usually reserved for longer focal lengths that the RSW can't handle anyway! The other restriction is if you use a Schneider 90mm XL - the newer version has huge rear element whcih is too big for the opening in the front of the Ebony. The 90mm Nikon is an excelent choice - although (sadly) discontinued but (I beleive) Robert White may have one or two left? Don't dismiss other 90mm lenses but you need to realise that a 90mm 4.5 or 5.6 is a heavy lens - have a look at the smaller Nikon f8 :)

 

If you're interested take a look at fellow UK-based LF users at www.lf-photo.org.uk. We hold regular workshops (free of charge) and are a helpful bunch!

 

Feel free to contact me off forum if I can be of any other help? Paul

(1) How easy would it be to compose/focus low to the ground? My RB with the wlf is great for this.

 

Depends of course on how low you're talking about. In general, it's going to be harder with the 4x5 especially if you're talking about lying on your stomach, kneeling, or bending your knees. It's partly a function of seeing the viewing screen and partly a function of your discomfort in staying in those positions for any length of time while you adjust the movements, compose, and focus.

 

2) Can I get a 6x7 roll film back for it?

 

Yes

 

3) Is the dark cloth always needed to focus? Will I have to manually mask off a 6x7 area on the groundglass? Are there accessory finders that can be used?

 

A dark cloth or some variation of one (e.g. the BTZS hood or similar products) is generally needed. If the light is bright you could perhaps get by without one, the Ebony screens are pretty bright though not all that easy to focus in my experience. Ebony and Robert White both sell viewers that attach to the back and supposedly eliminate the need for a hood. I bought Robert White's and used it on both of my Ebony cameras for a while but didn't care for it so I sold it. The traditional "horse blanket" dark cloth is cumbersome to carry around and use. I much prefer the BTZS hood sold by The View Camera Store (www.theviewcamerastore.com), it's very light, takes up little space, and is easy to use. There's a similar product called the Black Jacket and probably others.

 

You'll need to have a frame for the film size on your viewing screen though some viewing screens have different film sizes etched on the screen already.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "accessory finder."

 

4) How much slower will the RSW45 be to use than the RB in the field?

 

Obviously that depends on how proficient you become with using the 4x5 and on the nature of the scene you're photographing (e.g. the complexity of the movements) but in general it's going to be quite a lot slower, I can't quantify it, there are too many variables.

 

5) Will my gitzo 1325 tripod be up to used with it or do I need the 15 series?

 

Your 1325 will be fine. I've used one for years with several different 4x5 cameras.

 

6) How do I know which lenses can be used with it? There seem to be compatibility issues between cameras and lenses.

 

There are minimal compatability issues between cameras and lenses. The length of the bellows will limit the longest focal length lens you can use and some cameras are more friendly with wide angle bellows than others (the longer the bellows the more difficult it is to use a short lens because the bellows can't compress enough,some cameras can accept a bag bellows that can be sustituted for the normal bellows to deal with this issue). On some cameras the back of a lens might be too big for the camera or the front standard might be too flimsy for a big lens. But in general the only compatability issue between lenses and cameras is with the lens board, different cameras take different size boards and different shutters take different size holes in the board. However, my Ebony cameras used the Linhof size board and I assume all 4x5 Ebonys do the same. The Linhof size is as close to a standard size as you get with 4x5 so you won't have any difficulty finding lens boards. If you buy modern lenses you'll most likely only have three shutter sizes to worry about, Copal 0, 1, and 3.

Mark,

 

I can't answer your questions, but I just made a similar jump around Jan. 1st to a 4x5 Burke & James press camera.

 

C'mon in, the water's fine.

 

If you've done MF B/W processing, doing 4x5 isn't that much different. You'll try the various methods and settle on the one that works for you, scratching a few in the process but then getting the hang of it.

 

You'll find there's many ways to screw up in LF. Double-exposures, or no exposures, or over-exposures (when you forget to close the shutter before pulling the darkslide). Improper loading of the filmholder, resulting in a plastic crunch when you put the slide back in and scrunch the film into a wad...

 

But now and then you'll do everything right, and be stunned by what you get back. *That* is why I'm enjoying the heck out of 4x5.

 

Good luck!

90mm and 50mm lenses in 6x7 are roughly equivalent to 150mm and 90mm lenses in 4x5.

<br>I have both a Schneider Apo-Symmar L 150/f5.6 and a Nikkor-SW 90/f8 - stellar lenses!

I am not a LF expert but I have been looking to do something simular. I would recommend that you take a look at the format reducing adapter. It has a swing out ground glass which should make it much easier to use for 6x7 and they say that you can use your Mamiya Film backs. Your 1325 would be fine especially very low.

Ebony can provide an adapted Toyo reflex viewer for your camera which might solve some of your problems. You do not have to send the camera to them, they supply and adapt the viewer.I have owned an RB (hated it) and the Ebony RW which I still have use and love. No comparison between the two.

Oooh, lots of questions!

 

I was in a similar boat to you and I moved from the Pentax 67II to the Ebony 45S. As you probably know, the 45S is basically a long extension version of the 45SW which is in turn a 45RSW with more movements so the cameras are very similar, apart from the weight! I got a lightly modified 45S with less movements to cut down on weight and it weighs just under 2kgs. the 45SW is lighter with the 45RSW even lighter than that! As far 45 field cameras go, that is light! With that in mind, I use my 45S currently on a Manfrotto 190Pro! Yes, a tiny tripod but it just about does the job if I'm careful. Ideally I would be using my Berlebach wooden beast but I left it in the UK. since it was too big. Your Gitzo should be fine for the 45RSW.

 

As for shooting low to the ground, it all depends on how low. If the camera is only centimetres from the ground then the Ebony will be almost impossible to use with the standard ground glass, same as any other LF camera. You'll be frustrated big time. I use my 45S with the tripod unextended for maximum stability (I have to) and that leaves the camera about 60cms off the ground. Even at that height I have days where I wished I had a taller 'pod. Kneeling down crouched under the dark cloth is not fun and I'm a pretty tall guy so its even tougher. I sometimes have to tilt my head sideways or upside down to get a "comfortable" view on the GG. BUT, there is a solution to all this. You just need a reflex viewer. It's basically a 90deg or 45deg angle viewer so you won't need a darkcloth and you can look down at the camera like the viewing hood. Horseman make one and Ebony can modify the camera to have hooks and stuff to accept it. Most people seem to go this way for a reflex finder. Not too sure about the Toyo one, its the first time I have heard of Ebony doing mods to it. But you'll need to mask the GG off for 67 if you go this route. Masking can be done quite easily by using a soft pencil and lightly drawing a line on the GG. More discreet than tape and it won't interfere with the 45 view.

 

But, if you are going to use a reflex finder, you need to think about roll film holder compatibility/ease of use. The finder attaches to the rear standard and so while you use it you won't be able to use the rollfilm reducer. The rollfilm reducing back is a really neat accessory that basically provides a medium format GG for you and you can swing it out of the way and attach the roll film holder easily. You can't use the reflex viewer if you use this reducer. Maybe Ebony can make modifications for you but I'm not sure. Of course, the swing out reducer will have the usage difficulties of the normal GG, i.e. having to scrunch up under a darkcloth close to the ground.

 

Personally I would say that unless you really NEED to use roll film, stay with 4x5 and get the reflex viewer. You'll learn quickly so you won't make too many costly mistakes. Plus the 4x5 frame is pretty much the same as the same as the 67 ratio so it should be a pretty painless move. And of course you'll get a bigger slide as a bonus.

 

If you only shoot B+W and you are worried about developing then have you considered Polariod type 55? It provides a negative and of course it is very easy to develop. It's expensive but it's convenient and you can check exposure on the spot. That's how I work in 4x5 B+W at the moment. For colour I send to a lab. I, like you, do my own processing in roll format but sheets have me scared too. Theoretically it shouldn't be too hard but I'm scared of working in total darkness where I can't see what tray I dump the negative in. There's daylight solutions too but people have had good and bad results and tray developing seems to be the most foolproof way to get evenly developed negs. I'll get round to it one day though!

 

As for the speed of 45, it'll definitely be slower but by how much will depend on how much time/care you spend in 67. I was quite careful in 67 and a shot usually took me from 5-10 minutes to setup and take the shot. In 45 with the same process, I can get a shot in maybe 15-20mins. The setup itself is only slightly slower than the 67. You still have to get it out if the bag, put a lens on and clamp it to the tripod. Next is composition. If you are used to the WLF then you are already used to the reversed image so there should be no differences there either. But focussing is where it gets hard. On a normal 67 (no movements) you can focus and stop down and that's it. A quick and easy job. In 45 though, you got to focus as usual but then you got to think about tilts and stuff and then refocus and check movements again. Then you stop down and check focus again and adjust as necessary. Repeat ad infinatum. For a relatively flat lake scene it should be quite simple to focus since a little tilt is all you need. Filters and stuff will take the same amount of time as in 67. And then metering and stuff is of course all the same and then exposure time comes. This takes a tiny bit longer since you have to pull the dark slide and expose and put it back in and then flip the holder over etc. In 67 you just need to press a button and then wind on. Not a very significant difference though. So in short, it will take a longer time to take a shot but its not too bad.

 

And for lens compatibility, you should be able to use pretty much any lens. As mentioned before only the giant 90mm Schneider will not fit. Other lenses are limited by the amount of bellows extension. On teh 45RSW wides whould be easy to use too since that was what it was designed to do. If you want a fast 90mm then the Nikon is about as good as any. I plan to get a Rodenstock though since Nikon are now gone. These are big lenses though and are going to be heavy. Everyone raves about the smaller Nikon 90mm f8 but I think that f8 might be too dark to focus easily.

 

A few things to consider are filters and their usage. If you read the review by Joe Cornish on the Ebony site for the 45RSW you'll find that he says that the Lee filters he uses sometimes hit the bottom of the camera when tilting and using drop making ND grad usage difficult. I have the 45S and instead of front drop I can use rear rise so I don't get this problem. The 45RSW doesn't have rear movements so it becomes a small problem.

 

Also, the 45RSW is really a wide angle only camera. If you plan to be using longer lenses then I would suggest getting a camera with longer bellows (the reason I went to the 45S) or you will need to use extension tubes and maybe the extension back. It depends on how long you want/need to go in the future though.

 

One last thing is that if you don't plan to do 4x5 work ever, then take a look at the smaller 23 series cameras. They are pretty much the same as the 45 cameras but smaller and made to use roll film backs only.

 

As a disclaimer I'm not in any way affiliated with Ebony, I just have one of their cameras and I love it.

Hi Mark,

 

most things have already been said here and I don't pretend I could give you a better answer.

I just wanted to say that I was in almost the same situation as you.

I used to make landscape pictures with a Mamiya RB67 with 6 lenses form 50mm to 250mm. I really liked that camera and the way to operate it.

But, as you know, you cannot find a decent solution for the DOF problem in a composition with close foreground in a landscape shot.

 

The only possible type of camera for this purpose is a LF camera, or in my case, a 2x3" (6x9 cm) field camera. I absolutely wanted to continue to work with rollfilm. Cost was one factor, but the possibility to scan the 6x9 cm slides on my Polaroid Sprintscan 120 scanner was the decisive element.

I chose a Horseman VH first. I liked it quite a lot, but for wide angle photography, it was rather limited.

After that, I quickly got an Ebony SW23, which is a real pleasure to use for lenses up to 150 mm. I have printed up to 90 cm (35") long pictures in excellent quality.

If you do not wish to print larger, I would not go for a 4x5" camera, as a 2x3" field camera is a bit smaller, lighter, and rollfilm is really easy to use in the field. You don't ruin your wallet while bracketing a bit. I couldn't be happier with my choice.

I have tried many lenses from 47mm to 210mm (with top hat extension panel) and have settled down with a small set of 3: 55mm, 100mm 150mm.

I couldn't be happier with my choice.

 

Although it takes a bit more time to get ready to shoot with the Ebony, compared to the RB67, I have never regretted my decision.

 

Good luck!

 

Regards

 

Aender

Further info on the RSW45 Ebony, a very obscure model. Front: rise 65mm, fall 25mm, tilt 30 degrees, weight 3.3lbs. Just got that from Ebony, not being familiar with that particular model. Obviously a very limited 4x5 suitable for most landscape situations if you are able to give up the rear movements altogether. Personally I cannot do without rear tilt and in my experience swings, front and rear, come in handy when you least expect it. I recommend the RW45U instead as an economical lightweight landscape camera. It will take down to a 65mm lens and few photographers go wider than that. Weight of my RW45 is only 2 1/2 lbs, though the company specs say more. What it does have is the ability to take longer lenses and be more versatile should your photographic tastes change. Also, if you decide to sell it to move up to 8x10, resale would be easier.

Hi Mark,

 

First read a couple of good books on view cameras and how they work. Once you've read

up on how to manage the image through camera movements you'll have a better idea if a

view camera can do what you want.

 

Paul Owen's offer to help is wonderful, he knows what he's about. Otherwise I suggest that

you find a good LF camera dealer who can help you get the right things together.

 

Buy the camera with 150 and 90mm lenses and use sheet film. Its about the same amount

of trouble to shoot sheet film and roll film. You'll have to carry the same amount of stuff

either way to get the job done. Shooting the numbers of frames you now shoot won't be a

problem with sheet film. Your current tripod will be fine.

I'd echo the comment about forgetting about the rollfilm back - unless you are going to shoot a TON of pictures, and many of the same subject, just stick to sheet film, and crop if you want a different shape. Rollfilm adaptors add another factor of difficulty in working with the camera. Also consider the simpler RW45 camera. It'll handle down to a 65mm lens and has the basic movements needed for most landscape photography. I moved up from an RZ system to the 45 (though still use the RZ for portraiture and quicker-paced ___scape shooting) and the only times I've run into a lack of movements has been doing interior architecture. The RW is a great, simple camera for landscapes, exteriors, and portraits. It's also the cheapest in the Ebony stable, leaving more cash for lenses and film.

 

I think there's still the Fuji 6x8 medium format camera w/movements out there too, isn't there?

Erm, just to let people know, the Ebony RSW45 is a camera commissioned by Robert White (that retailer in UK) as a lightweight landscape camera. You can ONLY get it from Robert White. Not even Ebony sells them apparently.

 

It is a cut down 45SW with no back movements and limited front, but still enough for landscape. There is no simpler/lighter camera in the Ebony 4x5 lineup!

 

You can get all the specs and stuff off of the Robert White site.

Thanks for all the excellent responses guys. It sounds like a change from 6x7 MF to LF for landscape is a common one.

 

I think I need to make the decision whether I want to stick with roll film or take the plunge and start shooting 4x5. It doesn?t sound like a roll film back is a good longer term solution, Ebony?s 2x3 is an option but I don?t want to end up wanting moving to 4x5 at a later date!

 

I?m going to pick up a book on LF and get a better understanding of what is possible with the different movements and info on how to dev sheet film.

 

I?m also concerned that while now I think the rsw will give me the movements that I need, when I get further down the line and more proficient I will feel the need for others and end up changing cameras.

 

Budget is obviously a concern and I am still some way off having the cash to make the change!