More expensive brand - light modifiers.

For my hobby I am looking at monolights to do some portraits properly. Having my tripod I have been able to do more outdoor photography etc instead of handholding like the masses. Nothing too fancy maybe 2 softbox and maybe an umbrella to spread light for a larger group and perhaps a beauty dish.

 

1. Brands like Profoto and Broncolor, while the parabolic umbrellas are quite expensive, their softboxes and standard umbrellas are not that bad. Are they much different to other decent brands like Westcott or Elinchrome? I do understand one can get different adapters to use different modifiers on different light heads.

 

2. At the moment I intend to use them indoors so I don't necessarily need battery operation but it is nice to have that option. The Flashpoint or Godox AD600 once you kit up with 2 heads, 2 modifers, 2 stands is about $1,200, both the 2 light kit of the 500W Profoto D1 (non battery) and the 400W Broncolor Siros (non battery) are $2,200. So this difference of $1,000 isn't that much. One could say why not get the better Profoto or Broncolor right?

 

Godox does have plug in ones but they aren't that much cheaper. I could look at Elinchrome D-Lites etc but I heard they may not be as nice / consistent. The Godox I read a review and were nicely assessed. Althou one could also argue the D-Lites could possibly be ok for a hobbyist as well despite the issues.

 

 

Appreciate your views :)

"I do understand one can get different adapters to use different modifiers on different light heads."

 

- Not a good idea!

"Universal" speedrings are nearly always rubbishy pinch-screw or friction fit concoctions that are guaranteed to either fall off the flashhead, or crush it into a dented mess. Get a flash that has a widely-used speedring fitting like Bowens-S and stick with modifiers that are designed for that fitting.

 

A softbox is a softbox is a softbox. IME there's almost no difference in the quality of light between cheap ones and expensive ones. The difference is in build quality and how long they'll last, ease of use, availability of grids, spare parts and suchlike. And for light amateur use you may never need to worry about durability. However the diffuser material will get dirty and yellow over time, no matter how much you spend.

Edited June 10, 2017 by rodeo_joe|1

Thanks for that the Godox uses a Bowens mount. The Profoto and Broncolor sells different speedrings themselves.

 

At B&H the 250W Elinchrome D-Lites are already $850-950 for a 2 light kit. The Godos 2x 600W is $1,200 by importing from China directly or via eBay etc, could possibly get from B&H directly but they're more like $1,500US. Profoto and Bron are both $2,200. What's your view on this $500-1,000 difference.

It looks like money's no object to you, which makes this post a bit of an odd one for a "hobbyist". Therefore it's difficult to see what might be important features for you.

 

Elinchroms are serviceable enough units, but their 250 watt-second (not watts) flash energy isn't that powerful. Adequate for head & shoulder portraits, but not much beyond that. Something in the 400 w/s region will give you enough light for a small studio, shooting full-length and small groups. Anything above that might be overkill.

 

Brands like Broncolor and Profoto are pretty much top-line kit, and as such command a premium price. Will you see that extra cost reflected in the end result? I very much doubt it. As a newbie to flash you'll probably need a lot of experience before you can make the most of even basic kit. Unless you have a very good eye and a natural feel for lighting.

 

My advice would be not to throw money at gear, but maybe to put it into buying instructional lighting videos or taking classes from a professional or attending hands-on seminars.

 

The label "All the gear and no idea" isn't one you want to end up with.

Edited June 10, 2017 by rodeo_joe|1

Thanks. Not that money isn't important I see it like the difference between how people look at a camera body or lens. Lights like tripods can last forever. Body's don't and even if they could be used not many still use a 6MP very often. People debate between lenses ie OEM and 3rd party. The difference between a Canon or Nikon zoom to a Tamron or Sigma could be $1000 for just one lens.

 

Yeah the Elinchrome are 250 watt seconds. The Godox are a lesser brand while they're reviewed nicely who knows about the durability. Godox is probably less regarded than a brand like Tamron or Sigma.

 

Or something like a better Gitzo tripod.

Hi, I generally agree, mostly, with rodeo_joe so I don't know if I'll be adding anything useful. But I'm a little bored at the moment, so...

 

I've spent some considerable time with a large chain studio outfit where I've done a lot of equipment evaluation as well as studio design. My general experience was that the lowest price gear didn't work out too well for us. Typically, cheap softboxes were not as well built, and some might start tearing out at one of the corners, or perhaps the Velcro holding a diffuser in place starts to come loose. Some of them MIGHT be incredibly difficult to assemble. Rodeo mentions the diffusers yellowing; I've seen some internal reflectors start yellowing really quick, and this changes the color of your light as much as the outer diffuser will. Pro gear virtually never yellows prematurely.

 

Something that generally happens with the name-brand gear is that they have relationships, of sorts, with pro photographers such that they get feedback on these things and design problems get ironed out at an early stage.

 

That said, what we found to be problems might not be for you. We did enough shooting to "wear out" flash tubes in a couple of years, so it was a regular thing to have relatively untrained studio people replace them. So if these were not user replaceable (or exposed trigger wires could give a shock) we didn't want to have anything to do with them. Or if your softbox begins to tear somewhere, you could probably sew it up yourself - you don't want to try having some random hourly employee trying to do this.

 

Anyway, if cost is no object, I'd say don't waste your time messing around with non-pro gear. But since cost usually is a factor, you've got to weigh things yourself. If you only have to assemble a softbox once, and you never wear out a flash tube, then these things are not too important for you.

 

Aa a note, some years back, when the flood of "cheap" flash gear really started, one of our suppliers wanted to know if we were interested in a cheaper line. The way they would do this is to use lower grade internal components and that sort of thing. We used some of that gear in some of our lighter duty locations where it was more or less successful.

 

So, just a few rambling thoughts to confuse things more for you.

 

As a note, some advice I've given before is to check on local rental houses, such as a large camera store. If you have one near, you might want to consider the same brand of gear. That way you could rent various things you are interested in trying out, and the rentals could be a good source of emergency backup gear for you.

 

Best wishes on your purchase decision.

 

Ps, if you do portrait work, I would absolutely recommend that you use "UV coated" flash tubes, otherwise you will have issues with white clothing taking on a bluish tinge.

One more comment - make sure it's easy enough to change flash power settings on whatever you choose. Depending on what or how you shoot, you may not want to lower a light (or stand on a ladder) to adjust power settings. With some lighting gear you have the option of remote control, even using a laptop computer with a series of preset (by you) lighting configurations.

Thanks again.

 

Re: money there is a pressure point. If I was doing outdoor and needed battery version obvious the Chinese Godox would be attractive because the Profoto B1 are like $2,000US each head. In that instance I would just go cheap.

 

The rental firms where I am tend to stock Broncolor and Profoto only. The individual stores may have something else however but being in NZ they're not cheap, prob $70-100US per night per item.

 

I would be using a temporary master bedroom so the softboxes and everything will need to be dismantled and packed away after each shoot. Maybe I would end up using the garage but again take down soon after the shoot. The lounge has too many furniture.

 

But regardless no matter if it is Godox or Profoto / Broncolor or the nicer Elinchrome stuff. I need to get them overseas when I visit family. In New Zealand they charge $950US for a single Godox AD600.

I would be using a temporary master bedroom so the softboxes and everything will need to be dismantled and packed away after each shoot.

 

That's rough - set up from scratch every time you want to use your system. Especially if you have hard-to-assemble softboxes. Some of them take a lot of strength to bend the rods enough to pop them into place. It could really sap your ambition to take photos. You might want to consider the particular style of softbox that opens like an umbrella (I don't have any particular brand to recommend).

 

Given your difficulty in obtaining gear, I'd suggest only buying "mature" products - those that have been out long enough to get several years of customer feedback. Especially with the low-cost gear; yellowing of fabric might be a big issue.

 

A lot of gear has rather delicate flash tubes, subject to damage if something clinks against them. So if this is what you end up with, it's probably worth getting a couple spares.

 

Something else to consider might be resale value; given the expense of gear I wonder if there might be a big demand for used gear, and perhaps the name brands would return a higher proportion of their original cost? I dunno.

"..so the softboxes and everything will need to be dismantled and packed away after each shoot."

 

- In that case I'm going to retract some of what I said about getting durable softboxes and recommend Softbox brollies like this.

 

They erect and knock down in seconds, give a light pretty much indistinguishable from an Octa and are cheap enough to count as disposable. I have 3 or 4 in different sizes and they're an invaluable part of my portable flash outfit. You can fit them on almost any brand of flash, from speedlights to monoblocs.

 

Oh, yes. One more thing. Don't cheap out on lighting stands. Lightweight ones will topple over more easily and not be so easy to adjust or fold away after use.

For rectangular soft boxes, I use mine in a 3x4, a collapsible speed ring flattens the box and instantly pops it open. Unfortunately, I have not found one for octas. This type of brollie was good enough for Annie Leibovitz. When it comes to my 7' Octa, it is a bear to tear down, set up, tear down set up. So it stays in studio and a 6' AB parabolic with diffuser does just fine on location.

I'm not familiar with Godox as a brand. - At work they bought a couple of less expensive Chinese Wallimex & Jinbei monolights which are so far doing OK. - Both use the Bowens mount for light modifieres but fortunately there is enough space to store unused softboxes rigged up. If I had to store my lights flat; I wouldn't get softboxes. Brollyboxes probably work well enough.

Upon battery flash: Jinbei make such too. I wouldn't be eager to buy monolights for outdoor usage. They'll surely demand sturdier stands than generator head combos. Even indoors they are less convenient because hard to adjust when placed out of your reach.

 

Before we start talking about flash unit power requirements / suggestions could you elaborate which apertures you are going to use at which ISO? I'm shooting products with small sensors so I am at ISO 160 f16 and sometimes glad to have 600WS in the big softbox. With reflectors I occasionally almost hit the low setting of a 850WS unit. If you are planning to shoot families or couples on PanF 120 in Perceptol 400WS in Softboxes might be challenged.

 

Next issue(s) A studio consisting of 2 lights isn't that versatile. - Is casting shadows on a background really what you are aiming for? - You need 2 more lights to burn it out.

Softboxes outdoors are probably waiting for disaster. You could place them on a heavy old LF tripod (of the kind nobody wants to carry) but a budged lightstand looks just ready to trip.

 

I suppose if I ever get myself some portable strobes I'll go for Chinese ones. Right now I am questioning that move for 2 reasons: I don't see much of the 200W modelling light inside a softbox. So how little can I expect from a porty's LEDs? - I also don't know how to really mobilize such a kit. Shooting digital I might be better off with a few hotshoe flashes and slave sensors. It should be easier to ride them around on my scooter. - The folks I know have maybe enough patience for a dozen flash pops on a good day. I am unlikely to ever take the hundreds of shots a strobe battery should be good for.

 

Whatever you'll choose: try to make up your mind if you'll get a long with the UI I like dials much more than multiple buttons, one pair to move a cursor another to set values step by step. The Jinbei remote is quite annoying in that way.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Jochen

While lighting has its tips and tricks, nothing beats experimenting. If your on a budget look at Photek softlighters. Beautiful light, easy umbrella setup, 3 distinct sizes. The key is that your light head "comes out" a bit, like a light bulb ( I use profoto pro heads) so it can fill the umbrella (or soft box).

Elinchrom makes probably the best current octa reflectors, and some are affordable, to me reverse mount is key and some of these need to be modified. All of this is cost and experience. I only use square soft boxes for a general fill or to pump through windows.

I'm a strong believer that for portraits a round shaped mainlight in most pleasant and natural, faces are oval and a square light always feels harsh ( but that's a style as well)...

For my hobby I am looking at monolights to do some portraits properly. Having my tripod I have been able to do more outdoor photography etc instead of handholding like the masses. Nothing too fancy maybe 2 softbox and maybe an umbrella to spread light for a larger group and perhaps a beauty dish.

 

1. Brands like Profoto and Broncolor, while the parabolic umbrellas are quite expensive, their softboxes and standard umbrellas are not that bad. Are they much different to other decent brands like Westcott or Elinchrome? I do understand one can get different adapters to use different modifiers on different light heads.

 

2. At the moment I intend to use them indoors so I don't necessarily need battery operation but it is nice to have that option. The Flashpoint or Godox AD600 once you kit up with 2 heads, 2 modifers, 2 stands is about $1,200, both the 2 light kit of the 500W Profoto D1 (non battery) and the 400W Broncolor Siros (non battery) are $2,200. So this difference of $1,000 isn't that much. One could say why not get the better Profoto or Broncolor right?

 

Godox does have plug in ones but they aren't that much cheaper. I could look at Elinchrome D-Lites etc but I heard they may not be as nice / consistent. The Godox I read a review and were nicely assessed. Althou one could also argue the D-Lites could possibly be ok for a hobbyist as well despite the issues.

 

 

Appreciate your views :)

 

I just posted a review comparing the Broncolor Siros S 800 and the Profoto D1 500... spoiler alert the Broncolor won... mostly because of the head design... although both of them are very goid systems. The review has samples and is quite long if you want to take a look.....

 

Broncolor Siros 800 S v Profoto D1 500 AIR Review

Thanks, John G. The tests and information on your blog are a gold mine. I have learnt a lot about from studying your posts. Keep up the amazing work.

 

I just posted a review comparing the Broncolor Siros S 800 and the Profoto D1 500... spoiler alert the Broncolor won... mostly because of the head design... although both of them are very goid systems. The review has samples and is quite long if you want to take a look.....

 

Broncolor Siros 800 S v Profoto D1 500 AIR Review