Moon images how fast?

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by anthony_bez, Sep 10, 2009.

  1. Hello,
    I want to capture an image of the partial Moon with my D300, 500mm f8 mirror lens and 2x converter. So I'm stuck with f16 aperture.
    I do have a very stable support system.
    My question is what is the slowest shutter speed I can expect to use without getting motion blur.
    Cheers
     
  2. Anthony,
    If you use the Sunny f/16 rule, you'll get a somber, dark gray moon. I would recommend opening one stop brighter for an image that's a bit brighter but still shows some detail on the surface.
    The Sunny f/16 rule states that when shooting an object that's being lit by direct sunlight, set your aperture to f/16 and your shutter speed to the inverse of your film speed (ISO). If you ISO is 200, set your shutter speed to 1/200. If you ISO is 800, set your shutter speed to 1/800.
    Since you want to open up a stop, set your shutter speed to 1/100th of a second at ISO 200 or 1/400th at ISO 800.
    This is a general guideline. As always, be sure to bracket your exposures or risk losing the shot altogether.
     
  3. I've always spot metered the moon, and that works great for me. It keeps the sky pitch-black, and the contrast in the moon surface well visible. Most moonshots I took, end up with shutterspeeds of 1/200th ~ 1/500th with ISO800, F/6.7 and 500mm. So, if the moon is well-lit, you should be safe, you could even maybe drop to ISO400.
     
  4. hbs

    hbs

    The nice thing with digital is that you can try many different settings and find the one that works the best yourself. This is what I did with this recent picture of Jupiter and four of its moons. Before I started I had no idea of what settings to use (or even if if I'd get anything decent. ) To my surprise I got a shot that many people have marveled at.
    Good luck and have fun.
    00USHk-171493784.jpg
     
  5. Many thanks for all the helpful advise....
    I imagined needing slower speeds at ISO200 and expected motion blur to be an issue. But 1/100th would seem to be more than fast enough to stop the moon. Although at 1000mm + crop factor I expect I'll need to re frame every shot.
    Out of interest can anyone remember trying to capture an image on slow film and having problems with slow shutter speeds?
     
  6. Anthony,
    I am by NO means a qualified Photographer of the likes you will find on this site. But, I will share with you what I done. You can check out these shots on my Photo Blog if you care to: www.philthephotoguy.blogspot.com .
    I used my Nikon D90 with a Sigma 70-200mm @ 200mm, f6.3, 1/200 sec, ISO 200
    both shots on the blog are the same one except I done some work to the 2nd one in PS.
    phil b
    benton, ky
    00USIW-171503584.JPG
     
  7. hbs

    hbs

    I would think you'd have to have VERY slow film to get motion blur with a moon shot. Here's the moon at ISO 100 with the same setup as above.
    00USIY-171503684.jpg
     
  8. Your looking at 1000mm + the 1.5 crop factor for an equivalent focal length of 1500mm at F16. Mirror and tripod vibration are going to be a major problem. You will want to keep your shutter speed up in the 1/250 to 1/750 range and have a good tripod. To accomplish that you're going to need to boost your ISO up to whatever you need to get the faster shutter speeds. Do a google search on astrophotography, there are 1000's of sites that will give you some suggestions on photographing the moon.
    I have a 8in - 2000mm - F10 Meade SCT telescope and when I bump the tripod while veiwing the moon it takes 5 to 8 seconds to settle back down to a stable image. That's with a pretty good equitorial mount with tracking motor.
     
  9. The D300 has "mirror up mode" and I have a very stable platform available...
    But I do expect problems with stability, that is why I wanted to eliminate any potential problems with motion blur. And just concentrate on trying to keep my set up steady.
     
  10. The moon moves one moon diameter every two minutes.
     
  11. I think the moon movement is as big a problem as the tripod stability. Assuming an equivalent focal length of 1500mm. I think a shutter speed of 1/2000th may be required.
     
  12. The absolute slowest shutter speed to avoid movement is 1/30 second. I have used this with ISO 100 film with both a F (mirror lock-up) and a FM2N (self timer activation) on separate occasions with a 500mm f8 mirror lens with 2x and 1.4x teleconverters together (equivalent of a 1400mm f22 lens, although more like f32) on a very heavy duty tripod.
    The movement Mark describes above is correct. By watching the movement of the Moon in the viewfinder and timing its movement, this gives you an understanding of its movement direction and rate of travel across the viewfinder. The Moon can then be positioned in one of the corners of the viewfinder, which will then give you 2 minutes to lock the mirror up ready to fire the shutter at which time the Moon would be centered in the viewfinder.
     
  13. Anthony.... Depending on the quality of the 2x converter, you will most likely get better results by shooting at 500mm and f/8, and cropping the result. And by "most likely" I'm talking up in the 95% range. Medium-sized-and-sharp beats big-and-blurry everytime.
    Try putting a small sandbag on the lens and camera to dampen vibrations, just as you'd do during the day. And hang a heavy weight under the tripod.
     
  14. I should clarify that I'm not just talking about the degraded image caused by putting a 2x converter on a lens. I'm mainly refering to the two stops of shutter speed you gain from f/16 to f/8, as well as the fact that your camera-motion-induced blur will be cut in half.
     
  15. Always had success around F11, 1/400, 400 ISO. Taken with a Canon 300mm F4 lens with a 1.4 converter. You will probably be better off without the 2x converter ... Ray.
    00USa1-171671784.jpg
     
  16. I agree with John's answer. To stop the movement, 1/30 of a sec or slower. To also get a good image, you also need to follow many of the other suggestions dealing with long lens technique, proper use of tcs, metering techniques, bracketing, etc. Understanding the phases of the moon and the type of image you are looking for are other factors too. For example, you get little to no shadow detail at full moon.
    Joe Smith
     
  17. Always had success around F11, 1/400, 400 ISO. Taken with a Canon 300mm F4 lens with a 1.4 converter.​
    Which is exactly one stop over the Sunny f/16 exposure value that someone suggested! ;)
     
  18. You just need to take some test shots and bracket a few shots. I usually spot meter the moon and subtract one to two stops of exposure to make sure I don't blow it out of range.
    This was shot @f10 iso 100 at 1/20 minus -1 stop of exposure using Sony a700 w/ 70-300SSM,G @300mm (450mm in 35mm or FF ).
    00USdn-171705584.jpg
     
  19. ISO 200, F16, 1/60 second will get you a nicely exposed full moon. A full moon is as bright as daylight.
     
  20. I took this image with the moon rising just above the horizon giving it its red glow. I used Rick's method for getting the right exposure. Ended up with ISO-100 f/5.6 @ 1/30 sec 300mm (450) Sony a350
    00USk0-171747584.jpg
     
  21. Thank you everyone I really appreciate the advise.....
    Exposure settings, tips on framing and technique, they have all been very helpful.
    I do intend taking some shots without the converter and with my 300mm and 1.4x to compare results. My interest is in a partial moon image as I want to capture strong shadows.
    Cheers
     
  22. Anthony,
    You probably already know this, as you expressed interest in a partial moon, the dramatic full moon posters is the merging of two half moon images. During a full moon, the surface is flat, while it has the most contrast at half moon.
     
  23. Anthony,F5.6 to F8 at 1/60 sec for a full moon at ISO 100 always worked for me back in my film days.Much easier now with digital to check results.
     
  24. bms

    bms

    Here is my shot - major problem was shake, as mentioned above (2000mm Nikkor = 43 lbs!), so I had to go to ISO 3200 at f11 to get 1/400....
    00USmy-171765684.jpg
     
  25. I took some shots of the moon (sorry, don't have any scanned) with a Canon F-1N loaded with Kodak ISO200 HD film when it was still available, an 800mm f5.6L and a 2X extender. Shake was my biggest problem too. The slightest air movement caused the moon to swing around wildly in the viewfinder. I ended up using two tripods. The front one was my heavy Gitzo mounted as far forward as I could go on the lens rail and had about 15 lbs. slung underneith. The rear tripod was mounted to the camera body andI had to keep moving it to keep the moon in frame. I think I was shooting at f16. I metered the moon with a spot meter, added 2 stops for the extender, and doublechecked with the cameras spot meter. Bracketed one and two stops up and down. The middle shot came out perfect. It was an identical view to Harvey Serreze only showed more depth and detail.
     
  26. I took some shots of the moon (sorry, don't have any scanned) with a Canon F-1N loaded with Kodak ISO200 HD film when it was still available, an 800mm f5.6L and a 2X extender. At 1600mm the moon does a nice job of filling up the frame with a small margin at the top and bottom. Shake was my biggest problem too. The slightest air movement caused the moon to swing around wildly in the viewfinder. I ended up using two tripods. The front one was my heavy Gitzo mounted as far forward as I could go on the lens rail and had about 15 lbs. slung underneath. The rear tripod was mounted to the camera body and I had to keep moving it to keep the moon in frame. I think I was shooting at f16. I metered the moon with a spot meter, added 2 stops for the extender, and double checked with the cameras spot meter. Bracketed one and two stops up and down. The middle shot came out perfect. It was an identical view to Harvey Serreze only showed more depth and detail.
    I really love my 800mm lens but need to make it more practical to use. I want to get some filter material and start taking pictures of the sun. I'm working on a device that will do the same thing as the two tripods using only one. It will be fairly light and quick to adjust.
     
  27. Nothing beats an equatorial mount. This was shot on T-Max 100 in a F3 Nikon at prime focus. 6" refractor stopped to app. f/11 @ 1/60 sec.
    [​IMG]
     
  28. This shot was taken last night (Sept 12) at 1/60sec, f/5.6, 400iso, using the 30D and 100-400mm L at 400mm. It may be difficult to get the shutter speed fast enough using f/16, unless you have the ISO set at 800-1600+. I find it difficult to get a satisfactory shot using these high ISO's on the 30D due to the resulting noise and grain, maybe the D300 will perform better.
     
  29. Re: above
    00UT8U-171983584.jpg
     
  30. I think you have to experiment. For me it was helpful to shoot at dusk, when the sky is blue and the contrast between the bright moon and the sky is not as severe. The background can be adjusted in post processing. Also, a solid tripod and a shutter speed that is fast enough to limit any motion blur is essential.
    This shot is with a D300, 80-400 mm VR zoom at f8, 1/250 sec, iso 1600, 400 mm, on a tripod with a self timer.
     
  31. The image...
    00UTT7-172205584.jpg
     
  32. I shoot the moon with whatever aperture is sharpest for the lens I'm using, usually f/8-f/11. The moon is bright enough that shutter speed won't need to be too low. Spot metering is definitely key, as is exposure bracketing. Bracketing in particular is useful to fuse a few exposures together.
    Here's a shot I took handheld with a really cheap 300mm plastic lens.
    00UTzv-172525584.jpg
     
  33. dave's image above only shows that it's not always the equipment. i still use my D70s and the plastic nikkor 70-300 G for serious shoots.
     
  34. This shot is with a D300, 80-400 mm VR zoom at f8, 1/250 sec, iso 1600, 400 mm, on a tripod with a self timer.​
    Sunny f/16 +2/3 (bright surface)
    This shot was taken last night (Sept 12) at 1/60sec, f/5.6, 400iso, using the 30D and 100-400mm L at 400mm.​
    Sunny f/16 -1/3 (dark surface)
    This was shot on T-Max 100 in a F3 Nikon at prime focus. 6" refractor stopped to app. f/11 @ 1/60 sec.​
    Sunny f/16 -1/3
    Metering isn't really necessary. All of these shots were taken within a stop of each other.
     
  35. I was so impressed with Harvey Serreze's Jupiter pictures, I just had to try it myself. I was able to duplicate his shot, but this one I thought added something new.
    Its Jupiter and the four major moons plus Nepture on the lower right!
    After I took the picture I looked up the names in Home Planet and was surprised to find Neptune also in the picture (I had originally thought it might be a star). Had to find the satellites names/positions on a different site. Off topic, when Gallieo observed Jupiter through his telescope, his drawings show Neptune also, he just didn't know it at the time as Nepture wasn't known yet.
    The moons are in order (left to right) Ganymede, Europa, (Jupiter), Io, Callisto.
    D300, Vivitar Series 1 Solid Catadioptric, 800mm, f/11. Taken 9/16/2009, 11:28 EDT, about on the meridian.
    This site is so great, always seeing something new!
    00UWcF-173825584.jpg
     
  36. hbs

    hbs

    Paul - now you've impressed me. Neptune! That's terrific. Saturn would be great to look at next but it appears to be totally opposite to Jupiter in position, so I guess we'll have to wait several months.
     
  37. Harvey - More than a few months, Saturn's rings were on edge and invisible August 11th. Its a 15 year cycle, so its 7½ years till they're on fullest possible view. I would imagine it will be many months before they're worth photographing again. Of course, this will give us a chance to record the progression of the tilt!
    Saturn is even further than Jupiter and smaller, so since Jupiter's current apparent diameter is 46.8" and Saturn ranges from 14.5" to 20.1", Saturn will be less than half the size of what Jupiter is now at its closest and ⅓ that size at its smallest. Gonna need a teleconverter to keep the size up! or get the telescope out, its about 1250mm.
    I live in Indiana and the weather and light polution here is so bad I haven't set my telescope up in years. But this new technique will give the chance to reindulge as long its not cloudy. I took the picture in front of my house, across the street from a street light with my neighbors porch lights also glaring away less than 45 degees from my lens. What's is lousy for viewing with the eye isn't so bad for the camera apparently. I'll be trying some moon shots soon. Its just coming off new and will be a few days before its visible here.
     
  38. Saturn will be near the meridian by March.
     

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