Monolights vs slave speedlites

My Norman power pack's demise leaves me looking for a new lighting system. I'll use it mostly for small product work with a small digital camera, and since my space is restricted, I want something with smaller and lighter parts and fewer cables.

 

I've been planning to buy two or three radio controlled monolights, but I'm curious about getting some slave speedlites instead. They would be smaller, lighter, and cheaper, and would eliminate the power cords. On the other hand, they wouldn't have modeling lights or interchangeable reflectors (or any reflectors), and they would run on batteries whose life might be short.

 

If you have experience with both types of systems, what can you tell me about them?

 

How big a disadvantage is it to have no modeling lights? No reflectors?

 

How long do the batteries last? The ones I've looked at say they run on alkaline cells. Will they work on Li-ion too? (I have an old digital SLR that uses alkaline batteries and is useless with Li-ion; it can take half a dozen shots on freshly charged batteries, then it shuts down.)

 

I know some reasonably priced slave speedlites support TTL operation. How does that work, and how well? If two or more units are deciding independently how much light to produce, do they make allowances for each other and yield a reasonable exposure?

 

What else can you tell me about how the two types of systems compare?

If it were me I would go for the monolights. My experiences with TTL flash have not been happy ones; in my studio I have been using mono lights with radio slaves for a long time with great results. There is a wide choice of reflectors/modifiers, recycle times are short and light output is consistent, just as you had with your Norman system.

some reasonably priced slave speedlites support TTL operation. How does that work,

A pre-flash gets evaluated by the camera sensor and exposure flash determined based upon that.

how well?

You should get a salvageable RAW file as your result. I use Yongnuo flashes for Pentax and EOS and feel as if I had to use about 1 stop of flash exposur compensation to get things right. With a 3rd party extension cord between camera and flash it looked like even more compensation needed. But stuff works. I dunno where I misplaced my (when new) less affordable Pentax system flashes, but I believe they were a tad closer to proper TTL exposure.

I assume when you are using multiple flashes with TTL you determine theire roles (main fill, whatever) via exposure compensation for eqach of them?

Like any way of auto something, TTL flash isn't made for consistency.With auto white balance a white background will look slightly different when you place a blue or an orange subject on it. With TTL its brightnes should vary depending on how reflective your 2nd subject will be, compared to your previous one.

TTL might be nice for any kind of run & gun situation. For assembly line shots in a studio I'd prefer manual.

 

Batteries? - I'd buy one charger 2wo sets of eneloops for every flash and two more sets of eneloops one for the main light the other as backup to start shooting continuously. All chargers should work quite swiftly; I'd go for 1A and maybe 0.7A in some. each of them monitoring every single cell separately and some should be able to meqasure capacity of cells to evaluate what I still have. Warning! that adds up! Another 80€/$ to keep each flash going?

I'm no fan of batteroies in a studio.You don't see what is still firing and willing to go on, with a DSLR.

In my eyes cables aren't the enemy. It should be possible to get them out of your feet when you use rails on your ceiling (I like those!) instead of light stands.

How big a disadvantage is it to have no modeling lights?

I'd call Sherlock Holmes over, hoping he'll spot it with his magnifying glass. Sorry; I can't "read" a 100W halogenic bulb modelling light in a huge softbox; I do my "hands on thinking" about reflections with something like a Maglite... you have a bit of experience and chimping or even better shooting tethered should put lights into their place. You'll never know anything for really sure until you see a shot on a screen.

No reflectors?

If the difference between a 7.5" reflector and a speddlite head makes or breaks an image I suppose you spotted a rare case. everything else can get cobbled on speedlites too and there are barebulb ones to behave like studio lights.

 

I don't mind cables much. For a stationary studio where I work half shifts or longer, I'd prefer monolights. I would do the Strobist thing (with Speedlites) when portability is a goal and we are talking about just a few frames at a time.

Worth adding that some TTL systems (Godox when using a Xpro controller) and some cameras have the ability to save and display the settings calculated by the TTL system, meaning that you can use TTL flash to quickly establish a baseline, then switch to manual and tweak individual settings from there.

I have also photographed small products in a studio setting. I have used both methods, speed lights and strobe flashes. I find working with strobes to be preferable.

If you are shooting for an extended period of time the speed light recycle time increases as battery life decreases causing delays in work flow. The recycle time on strobes is constant. Strobes have more power which gives you more flexibility on the location of the flash (subject to flash distance) as well as the use of modifiers.

I almost always use modifiers with the strobes; umbrellas, soft boxes, barn doors, beauty dishes and reflectors.

I do not use modeling lights very often. I am usually working in a well lit room setting up the shots and I find the modeling lights are not very useful.

Powerful strobes give you more flexibility with the selection of the aperture. This allows you more control of the depth of field, and you can overpower any ambient light if necessary.

Some newer strobes are TTL capable. Some also offer a wireless hot shoe mounted trigger which allows you to control and adjust the strobes individually from the camera. Battery powered strobes are also available which may eliminate the cord issue.

Upon Li-Ion batteries: Some speedlites take proprietary ones and nothing else.

If you are asking about rechargeable AAs: NiCDs (maybe discontinued?) & NiMhs: Yes! They should work much better than Alkalines; i.e. permitt fastert flash recycle times. I recommend Eneloops as the best compromise, since those hold their charge for a while. If you are shooting fully continuous like through 3 sets of batteries every workday and dream of fastest flash recycle times, maybe go for other NiMhs (that self discharge annoyingly rapidly!) but: In such a case I'd prefer proprietary Lithium batteries, hoping those to be lighter than the NiMhs and also causing less trouble in general. Putting 4 cells into a flash is more hassle than exchanging one battery. I also believe Lithium can get charged faster without significant suffering.

 

In doubt I'd mix & match. A couple of speedlites is nice and essential to shoot events, portraits of folks you are visiting and similar "general" stuff. You can always utilize them in a studio for less demanding tasks; i.e. substitute monolights #4 to *whatever* with them.

I have a set of 3 Godox 'Ving' 860N (Nikon dedicated) speedlights. These work from Lithium-polymer batteries - unique to Godox.

 

These lighten the weight of the flash units and give extended use over Alkaline or NiMH cells. Up to around 600 flashes per charge according to Godox themselves. I must say they perform well, with a very short flash recycle time and lengthy use between charges. 600 pops? Don't know, I haven't actually counted, but a fair number anyway.

 

The other advantage of the Godox V860s is that they take a remote trigger and receiver that allows changing the output 'power' from the camera transmitter; allowing for quick changes of ratio.

 

The disadvantage is that the batteries are at least twice the price of a set of decent rechargeable AA cells. Making backup spares quite expensive to initially buy. They may outlast NiMH cells, but again I can't personally vouch for that.

 

WRT how much you'd miss modelling lamps: Only you can answer that. My experience is that a combination of flash-metering, prior experience of lighting setups, and chimping (of course!) work well enough for me. I have a good idea of the lighting effect I want, and the setup that'll deliver it. Beyond that it's sometimes a matter of trial and error to get reflections, shadows or highlights exactly where they're wanted, but I find the same with studio strobes, where the modelling lamp doesn't precisely show the effect in camera that you see by eye, or want to achieve.

 

I still prefer to use studio strobes over speedlights where setup time, mains power, space and portability aren't an issue. However a lot of the time those parameters take precedence.

 

Having praised the Godox 'Ving' flashes, I have to say that I've also used cheap YongNuo 560 mkiii speedlights with total success, as well as old Nikon SB-25s. They all provide a similar amount of light and control, and fit the same adapters and modifiers.

It's hard to imagine using speed lights in studio situations, or any situation where you need controlled light and a lot of it. That would include anything calling for multiple lights.

 

Monolights need not be expensive. Monolights with 300 Joules output cost as little as $200, far less than most TTL speedlights (typically less than 50 Joules). Most come with a photoelectric sensor, so wires (other than for power) are unnecessary. Trigger one light with a radio or cable, and the others will follow. You only need radio triggers when the lights are far from the camera (or each other), or in public where anyone with a cell phone could trigger your remotes.

 

Cables of any sort are a liability when people are walking about. There are batteries to power most monolights with enough capacity to last several hours and hundreds of flashes. Moreover the recycling time is usually under 1 second, compared to 5 or more seconds for a speedlight.

 

Monolights give you a lot of options holding them where needed and distributing the light with modifiers. All have a socket for 5/8" light stand spuds, and need no special adapters for umbrellas, reflectors or light boxes.

 

When you use multiple lights, every situation and setup is special. IMO, TTL is a waste of time. You can do in 15 seconds and a flash meter what would take 20 minutes fiddling with TTL. Furthermore the setup is immune to changes in clothing and small changes in the position of the subject. Think of weddings, event portraits and groups, with various combinations of light and dark clothing.

 

I am resolved to the fact I need a coffin-sized case for a set of monolights, and another for light stands and modifiers. If I don't need them, they stay home and I carry a speedlight or two (for spares)

 

An alternative would be LED panel lights. They're indispensable for video, and probably adequate for event portraits. Two 12x15" panels will fit in a laptop bag with room for batteries, and are light enough to fit on a microphone stand, or light stand if you need more height. They don't have the instantaneous output of a strobe, but enough for the generous ISO capability of modern digital cameras.

most TTL speedlights (typically less than 50 Joules).

Top line speedlights from the likes of Canon and Nikon have had an energy rating of 75 to 80 Joules for many, many years now, and today's cheap clones, like YongNuo's 560 range, are similarly powerful. Together with the more efficient reflector/fresnel systems and smaller tubes (leaving less residual energy unused in the capacitor); their forward light output can easily equal that of a low end studio strobe.

 

The energy rating can be easily verified by examining the repair manuals for such speedlights, which specify a storage capacitor rating of 1400uF at around 350 volts. Also, simply pointing a flashmeter at a speedlight and comparing it with a cheap strobe + standard reflector at a similar distance will show the illumination level to be not dissimilar.

 

When it comes to filling a 72" parabolic, then the studio strobe may well have an advantage, but that's not usually the sort of modifier that gets used for small product shots. Nor, I suspect, gets schlepped about on location very much.

compared to 5 or more seconds for a speedlight

You need to get better and more modern speedlights Ed.

An alternative would be LED panel lights.

Now you're just being silly.

Edited December 27, 2019 by rodeo_joe|1

Just my two cents . . . If you are doing product work get the monolights. The modeling lights save you time by letting you see reflections and shadows before you shoot. The power will allow for quicker recycling and the power cords, while you have to work around them, will allow you to just turn on the power and not worry about changing batteries.

 

As noted, the modern version of hot lights, LED panels, should be considered. They use little power, are larger sources, infinitely adjustable and stay cool. On the other hand, modifiers, if you use them, are a little more difficult to use.

I think top of the line Nikon and Sony flashes approach 80 joules - about 1/2 stop better than 50 joules. That's still a long way from 300 to 1000 joules for monolights in my kit.

 

My Sony flash recycles almost instantly, and will supply 5 or 6 flashes at 13 fps. On the other hand, I use it mainly as fill for grin-and-grip shots, at an ISO which hovers between 3000 and 8000. For large groups on stage, a pair of 320 joule strobes is sufficient, weighing less than a single 1000 joule unit, and I can get by with light duty stands. I doubt anyone would even blink for a shoe-popper going off at that distance, unless they were looking right at it.

 

For the same (ISO) reason, LED panels work surprisingly well for controlled lighting. They're easily carried, use relatively little power (two Canon batteries last an hour), and serve as their own modeling lights. You can set exposure and ratios with an ordinary light meter (or camera). Mine have a variable color temperature, 2800 to 5500, to match background lighting. They have a light output of 4280 lux at one meter, more than my hot, 200W Cool-Lux lights

Edited December 27, 2019 by Ed_Ingold

Some people swear by speed lights and I have seen some photographers do fantastic work with them. From my experience, the light coming out of speed light is much harsher and inferior to the light coming out of Studio lamp head, sorry. The problem is the size of the head on the speed light which is rather small. Also, many flash heads on speed lights come with some type of reflector to increase the distance the light travels. However this further hardens the light.

 

I once worked at this gig shooting portraits and the power pack for my studio lights suddenly died out on me. Luckily it was towards the end of the shoot, but we had to resort to some speed lights that were just lying around for the remainder of the shoot. Even though we used Umbrellas to soften the light, when we compared the picture quality of the images taken with the studio lights and those taken with the speed light, it was no contest. The studio lights won by a mile(IMHO).

 

Of course we didn't tell the client that we had to switch to speed lights, because they probably could not tell the difference anyway. You might try these they are quite expensive, but you can still find them Used on eBay: Norman 200 Watt/Second Portable Battery Assembly Kit - Includes: LH2K-MR UV Modeling Flash Head with Pocket Wizard Radio Slave, 5" Reflector, Power Pack, Battery, Charger, Strap

 

I have a whole set of these and they have been adequate for my meager needs (portraits/small product) , but again the quality of light usually gets better with the size of the light source.

If I were shooting small products on a regular basis, I would get two or three Alien Bees, using a sync cord or cheap radio trigger on one and the built-in optical slaves on the others. Monolights have more power and better quality of light than speedlights and it's easier to use various light modifiers with them. But I rarely have to light anything and when I do I use my two Nikon speed lights powered by high capacity NiMH rechargeable batteries. I don't fool with iTTL - too quirky. It's easier (for me) to set the lights on manual and adjust the power settings by chimping. No need for a flash meter, though, if I used these lights a lot I would find a meter handy.

The monolights which are designed to be used on stand and light modifier like umbrella and soft box so they can be mounted with these easily. If found it's not easy to mount a hot shoe speed light on these. I think the power control on the monolights are more accurate. I found variable power on all of my speed light are not accurate. If I increase or decrease power by 1 stop it's not 1 stop. But they are consistent between flashes.