Mirrorless pocketable camera suggestion

Discussion in 'Mirrorless Digital Cameras' started by marco_landini, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Hello guys.
    I' m interested in a pocketable mirrorless digital camera to pair with my Nikon D90, and to carry with me on my large pockets. The dimension is important, and I was happy with my Contax t2 in my film era. It' s a right size camera for my neeeds, cm 10,5 x 6,3 x 3,5, 230 gr. Good viewfinder, nice controls, incredible small and good prime lens. The perfect film street camera for my taste. So, I' d like to find a similar featured camera in digital version.
    I need those kind of dimensions, raw format file, nice viewfinder, manual an A exposure controls, manual and auto focus, nice hi iso performance at least at 800, and a LARGE sensor.
    In my searching, I found the Canon G1x to be a nice candidate. I prefere a short focal range or even a prime lens and very large aperture reather than a long zoom with small aperture. What do you think about this Canon G1x ? Any other suggestion ?
    Thanks, Marco
     
  2. I've got the G1x for about 4 months and I really like it. There is nothing to complain about except that it is obviously not a DSLR. For example, the viewfinder will not give you a 100% view. It only gives you a rough estimate of the view you will get, but we often trim and straighten our shots a little anyway. There is no need to get the perfect framing right away.
    I accept the one fixed zoom lens solution because that is the only pocketable solution. With the SLRs, I don't have as much problem carrying some Nikon F5 as carrying a set of 5 lenses. So the small body solution is not attractive to me at all.
    Without the mirror, I have no choice but to rely heavily on the LCD display and the flexible LCD of the G1x is very useful. I rarely hold the camera at arm length, it is better to hold it closer to my body and there is no need to use it at eye-level
    The most important thing is the IQ which is a strong point of the G1x
    People complain a lot about the slow lens F2.8-5.6, but have they compared the size of a 24-70mm F2.8 with the small 18-55mm F3.5-5.6? This is the thing we should accept to have a pocketable camera because we should not sacrifice other things like sensor size, or IQ. Besides, the lens of the G1x is a little slow but not a bad one at all. Remember what the max aperture of the Contax T2 you have is? The lens doesn't have to be big to give quality picture, but it must be big to be fast (unless it is for small sensors)
    The AF is good and the quality of ISO 800 is good. The handling is good, buttons and dials are convenient. The battery life is surprisingly good , maybe because I don't have the habit of shooting randomly
    To me your choice of the G1x is perfect
     
  3. Thank you John. Can you tell me a suggested price, maybe used ?
     
  4. Sony RX100.
     
  5. James, I think Sony RX100 it's more pocketable and compact, but it has not the optical viewfinder, essential for me. I hate to shoot looking at the lcd screen, it' s not my style. Looking throught the optical viewfinderd gives me the sensation to be involved in the scene.
     
  6. >>> Any other suggestion ?
    I really like my Sony RX100. Fits in my jeans pocket, really good image quality, good low light performance, and easy to use.
    Here's a set of 25 photos I've taken with it.
     
  7. [[Looking throught the optical viewfinderd gives me the sensation to be involved in the scene.]]
    Ah, but you can put an optical viewfinder on via the hotshoe.
     
  8. I' ve also taken a look at these : Fuji x-e1 ( hybrid viewfinder), samsung nx 1000 and sony nex 5n ( or 5r) both without viewfinder
     
  9. I'm surprised the Canon G1x would be pocketable. Boy...you have big pockets, if you can fit a XE-1, 5n/r and that samsung...
     
  10. I own Canon G1x and I like it, but I think its optical viewfinder is pretty much useless, same for the whole G series (I used to have a G12). I suggest you try it before you buy one.
    The requirements for both viewfinder and pocketability are hard to meet... Have you considered an Olympus Pen with the external, electronic viewfinder? It has the benefit of interchangeable lens (plenty of quality lenses are available in Micro 4/3), with a pancake prime it's not that big.
     
  11. We can resume these cameras in some groups :
    Canon g1x, cm 12x8x6,5. Fuji x100 cm 13x7,5x5,5. Fuji x10 cm 12x7x5,5. Fuji xe1 cm 13x7,5x4. These 4 cameras has oprical viwfinder.
    Sony nex5 cm 11x6x4. Canon eos m cm 11x6,5x3. Samsung nx cm 11x6,5x4. These 3 cameras are not mirrorless and you have to carry on a lens too, in the other pocket...But the are very similar in dimensions, lens off, to the contax t2.
    Sony rx100 cm 10x6x3,5.
    I guess the second group has the best image quality, and the size is qiuet similar to contax t2. They ar not mirrorless, and you have to keep a lens in the other pocket. These cameras could be a nice compromise, IMHO.
    What do you suggest ?
     
  12. [[Sony nex5 cm 11x6x4. Canon eos m cm 11x6,5x3. Samsung nx cm 11x6,5x4. These 3 cameras are not mirrorless]]
    These cameras are mirrorless. They also offer the ability to change lenses.
     
  13. Ok, sorry for my misunderstanding.
    I think I shoud focus my choice to Fuji ex1 or Sony NEx 5.
     
  14. Don't rule out the Fuji X100s before you have tried it.
     
  15. >>> and you have to keep a lens in the other pocket. These cameras could be a nice compromise, IMHO.
    What do you suggest ?

    If I am on the street shooting, and require a camera that comfortably fit in my pocket, there is no way
    removing and then mounting a lens kept in my *other* pocket would be an acceptable solution. But that's just me.

    That's why after a lot of research, including evaluating image quality, AF speed, ergonomics, etc, I ended up purchasing the RX100....
     
  16. Canon S100 is very nice, if you can adapt to shooting without an optical viewfinder, it appears to meet all your other criteria.
     
  17. You might also consider the Canon G15. Compared with the G1x, yes the sensor is smaller, but it has a faster lens, is somewhat smaller and lighter -- and about $200 less money. That's the way I went.
     
  18. Another vote for Sony RX100 :)...nice shots Brad!
     
  19. I think I shoud focus my choice to Fuji ex1 or Sony NEx 5.​

    Might as well add in the 16mp µ4/3 cameras while you're at it. The Olympus E-PM2, even with the add on optical finder is pretty small and light.
    You do realize that all the above mentioned cameras have better image quality than your D90, don't you?
     
  20. If you can accept a slightly larger camera-and-lens combination (about 12 x 7 x 2.6 cm, see http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-alpha-nex-6/3) and an electronic viewfinder (that most people say is one of the best), then one good option should be the Sony NEX-6, with either the Sony NEX 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 OSS pancake zoom or one of the smaller primes. The available small primes include the Sony 16mm f/2.8, the Sony 20mm f/2.8, and the Sigma 30mm f/2.8. These lenses would be roughly equivalent to a 35mm camera with a 25-77mm zoom, or a prime of 25, 31, or 46mm, respectively. (There are of course other zoom and prime lenses that are native NEX E-mount, but they are bigger.)
     
  21. Another vote to at least check out the Sony RX100. I used to have a Canon S95 and the Sony just totally kicks arse on it in most every respect. I no longer feel under-equipped when I leave my DSLR at home. Regardless, there are many fine choices out there now and it is hard to make a really bad choice.
     
  22. Another vote to at least check out the Sony RX100. ... the Sony just totally kicks arse on it in most every respect. I no longer feel under-equipped when I leave my DSLR at home.​
    Totally how I feel about it. (In addition to my Canon DSLR) I have a Nex 5 (which I use mostly with legacy glass and NB does not have an OVF/EVF) and even the body (as marvellously compact as it is) is bulky compared to the RX100. Now add a lens ...

    I agree with the poster who said that pocketability and optical viewfinder are hard to combine (in a digital camera: my old favourite was the Minox 35GT, which is even smaller than the RX100). Yes, it would be nice to have an OVF on the RX100, but in return for having a high-quality camera that I really can take everywhere - even in an inside suit pocket - it is worth the compromise.
    Since I bought the RX100, use of my DSLR has tailed right off. Much to my wife's relief ...
     
  23. And another thing: the RX100 shutter (if you turn the faux sound off) is near-silent. The same cannot be said of the Nex 5. That may not matter to you, but in case it does, it is a consideration.
     
  24. As much as I like the RX100, Ricoh is said to be coming out with the GRD V with an aps-c sensor sized much less than the fuji x100, probably pocketable. I'd wait a bit, if you're not in a hurry.
     
  25. Thank you guys for your kind suggestions.
    I read in a post of this discussion that all these small cameras are capable to produce better image quality pics than a Nikon D90....is it really ?
     
  26. By Bruce Rubenstein :
    You do realize that all the above mentioned cameras have better image quality than your D90, don't you?
     
  27. "Ricoh is said to be coming out with the GRD V with an aps-c sensor..."​
    I saw that on Petapixel. I'm doubtful that an APS sensor can be squeezed inside a GRD or GX100/200 sized body and function without some extreme internal image processing. Reportedly the RX100 does quite a bit of internal processing to remove severe barrel distortion in order to accommodate the 1-inch sensor. But a 1-inch or CX sensor in a hypothetical GRD5 should be workable and very appealing.
    A GXR sized Ricoh is more likely. That might take it out of the truly pocketable size of the GRD and GX100/200. But a revised GXR with an APS sensor, without the modules, and with a good fast midrange zoom would be terrific. I'd prefer a 35mm (equivalent) f/1.4.
    Either way, with Ricoh's outstanding ergonomics, sensible controls and the GRD4's JPEG processing, in a GRD or GXR type chassis and larger sensor... I'm having dirty fanboy dreams. Hopefully they can speed up raw shot-to-shot speed just a wee bit as well.
     
  28. Indeed the strong growth of compact system cameras (MFT and NEX) has put the squeeze on reduced frame DSLRs from the other end as well. With their smaller size and lighter weight (and dedicated shorter lens mounts) these are proving to be a compelling sell, and offer similar image quality to an APS-C sized DSLR but in a more attractive package. (The NEX camera's sensors are themselves APS-C in size, and image quality from the latest generation of MFT cameras is so close that it's a quibble) so IQ is a de-minimus issue. Luminous-Landscape
    The sensor in the D90 is a couple of generations behind the latest Sony, 16mp, µ4/3 sensors. Go to DxO and compare the scores of the D90 to the OM-D or E-PL5. All the scores and graphs, not just the simplistic figure of merit. Beyond basic sensor performance, the smaller pixel pitch of the new sensors raises the sampling rate (spatial frequency = sampling frequency), so weaker anti-alias filters are used. Out of camera RAW files are sharper and have more detail, assuming both cameras are accurately focused. Which brings up the focus issue: mirrorless cameras use Contrast Detect AF (CDAF) where focus is determined by analysis of the imaged formed on the image capture device, DSLRs use Phase Detect AF (PDAF) which uses dedicated AF sensors. PDAF may be faster and able to track moving subjects, but CDAF is consistently more precise and accurate.
    FWIW, I have a D7000 and have/had the 105/2.8 VR, 17-55/2.8 AF-S, 85/1.8, 180/2.8, 35/1.8 (among other lenses) and Olympus OM-D & EPL-5 with the 12/2, 25/1.4, 45/1.8 & 75/1.8 (and some others). I don't shoot the Nikon anymore unless it's something like sports, or receptions where I need on camera flash. The images out of the Olympus gear is just better.
     
  29. Rob - which optical viewfinder fits on the Sony RX100? I'm interested in this camera, but have resisted because it doesn't have a viewfinder. Thanks.
     
  30. you can put an optical viewfinder on via the hotshoe.
    which optical viewfinder fits on the Sony RX100?​
    There is no hotshoe on the RX100 and I am not aware of an OVF for it.
     
  31. Lex, I figure the GRD V isn't going to be as small as the previous GRDs but it might be smaller than the GXR due to it being non modular. I bet it will be smaller than the Fuji x100. It could be as small as the Sigma DPX. Remember, if the lens is a f2.5 fixed, it could be small...
     
  32. "a pocketable mirrorless digital camera to pair with my Nikon D90, and to carry with me on my large pockets."
    I too have a D90. I now also have an Olympus E-PL5 ($550), which has better image quality than the D90. You can out a 17/2.8 ($250), 14/2.5 ($300) or 20/1.7 ($400) pancake prime lens on it and the whole thing will fit easily into a large pocket.
    (Note all prices are estimates)
     
  33. Last question.
    In your opinion, which one of these 2 do you prefere : Olympus E-PL5 or Spny NEX 6 ?
     
  34. Last question.
    In your opinion, which one of these 2 do you prefere : Olympus E-PL5 or Spny NEX 6 ?​
    I don't have a NEX6 but I can tell you why I chose E-PL5 — lens selection, in particular if you like to use small prime lenses. While the NEX6 and E-PL5 cameras are similar in size, lenses made to fit the APS-C cameras will always be bigger. The Panasonic 14/2.5, for example, is a very good lens and is very small and light.
    Despite the lack of good/small/relative inexpensive prime lens in the past, yesterday, Sony announced the 20/2.8 pancake lens for the NEX system. If this lens is good, as good as the 20/1.7 from Panasonic, then you now have a very small and, hopefully, good "all around" prime lens to be used with the NEX system. Together with the 16/2.8 and 50/1.8, you will more or less have a three prime lenses kit that is almost as small as those of the m4/3 system.
    This makes it harder for someone who starts from starch to choose between the two systems. If all things being equal, you will continue to see better lens selection from the m4/3 side and their cameras focus slightly better. The videos on the Panasonic cameras are most likely to be better than those in the other mirrorless cameras. On the SONY side, their cameras will most likely have the best sensor, although similar sensors will soon go to m4/3. Larger APS-C sensors will always be a little better in IQ than smaller 4/3 sensors made by the same company, although the difference is likely to be too small to be significant for most users. Another general issue that people talk about is DOF control. IMO, this is not an issue that says one system is "better" than the others and you can do a search on this topic to decide for yourself.
     
  35. Thank you John. Can you tell me a suggested price, maybe used ?​
    Last year, it was sold new for a little less than $600. I didn't think of a used price at this time because I believe only few people appreciate it and buy it. Then a lot less would sell it after buying it. I strongly believe those who bought it will love it for a long time,.. until the appearance of a G2X. I guess the G2x will have a better sensor and a better lens (in IQ, not in speed). The price may be higher though, but around $1000 is ok
     
  36. Thank you guys. I will go for a visit to my favourite camera store, so I' ll have the possibility to do my choice comparing ergonomics. The last candidate : Olympus E-P3. Which one do you suggest me : Olympus E-P3 or E-PL5 ? Which are the important differences between these 2 cameras ?
     
  37. The biggest performance difference between the E-P3 and E-PL5 is the sensor. the 3 has an older 12mp Panasonic sensor that has more noise and less resolution than the 5. The handling will be different in many ways: 3 has an effectively bigger, higher resolution fixed LCD, an added control dial and it's also physically bigger.
     
  38. Sony DSC-RX1....
    A dream ?
     
  39. When you start dreaming about the pictures you want to take instead, you'll know what gear to buy.
     
  40. From the previews, the RX-1 seems to be a competition with the G1x, it is kind of the Sony version of an extended G1x. The main idea of the G1x is "a much better sensor for a carry-around camera" and Sony answers it with a full frame sensor.
    The design of the RX1 is obviously very much in Sony style, but I can see some similarities with the G1x, especially the flash mechanism and the two control dials on the top. Surprisingly, Sony also chooses the small battery with less shots like the G1x.
    Obviously, the RX1 is more than the G1x in many ways, including the price tag which makes it more like a "dream" than a practical solution.
    The controls are what make it very "Sony". I like the aperture and focus controls on the lens, but that's only when I use my manual film cameras. Even with newer film cameras, we stop using the aperture ring which is gone on EOS lens, Minolta(Sony) lenses, and set to F22 (or so) on Nikon F5 and Pentax *ist.
    It is also awkward that the camera would ignore the aperture ring in P and S modes and it is disappointed that there is no optical VF nor articulated LCD which really necessary to me in bright light and better framing and holding
     
  41. I have a Fuji X-10 and like it. The new X-20 may be worth your while to investigate.
     
  42. I can strongly recommend the Canon EOS M with the 22mm lens (35mm equivalent angle of view). This litlle camera has a APS-C size sensor, and a fantastic touch screen interface (you just put your finger where you want the camera to focus). To me, it's the perfect camera for travelling and documentary photography.
     
  43. Another vote for Sony RX100. I really like the small size. Very pocketable. Great photos. 1.8f. 18 MP raw. Great video too. I am wedding photographer and own a 5DMk3 and a 60D but I use this one for all my personal use.
     

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