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Metz 60 CT-4, Pocket Wizard, and Rolleiflex 6008i


lutherhert

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<p>I want to know how to set up a Rolleiflex 6008i with a PocketWizard Plus, a Metz 60 CT-4 flash, and tungsten studio lights. I would want the PocketWizard to trigger the tungsten lighting, when the CT-4 flashes. It is unclear to me where the pc cord from the camera's pc connection should connect. I assume that it would go to the PocketWizard's transmitter. The CT4 is connected to the camera, using SCA 356 and SCA 300A connectors. The PocketWizard receiver, I assume would be located on the tungsten lighting Also, is it possible to use the camera's TTL system, when using the PocketWizard? I reviewed the entire postings for Rollie and the CT-4, but could find no clear information regarding such a set up. There is little clear information about how to do this on the manufacturer's and other sites. I need a clear explanation from someone with the experience or knowledge of doing this.</p>
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<p>I do not know anything about PocketWizards so I cannot comment on the whole set-up. I think there was something odd with the Metz 60 and Rolleiflex flash adaptors. If I remember correctly the 60 did not work with the SCA 356 but with an older C-60(?)flash adaptor. I have to look into this. It may take some time to find and I may not be able to find the information at all. It is a long time since I have read on the subject.</p>
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<p>If I understand you wishes correctly you just want to use both sets of lights together. I think you can use the strobes set up as a slave (to trigger when the other flash is seen) without needing the pocket wizard. Probably you wish to use the Metz with the camera for exposure metering, so for your strobes you'd need a slave cell that plugs into the sync port on the strobe pack. Some strobe power packs have the slave built in, others require the plug in piece, but slave cells are cheap. There is a cord that connects the metz to a pocket wizard, but I think it goes in the same hole that you'd connect the sca module so that would prevent you from using the TTL which I think you want. </p>
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<p>He does write "trigger the studio lighting" …. <br>

Btw - I love the Metz 60 ct-4 flash units. These are very inexpensive second hand these days and can pump out a lot of light and the light itself has a nice quality to it. You can find lithium battery packs now for them on ebay that remarkably have more capacity and weigh less than the dry cells. I use mine often with pocket wizards attached to each flash unit via a metz to pocket wizard cable you can order from Samy's. Then I fit one pocket wizard to the camera. In this mode there is no TTL metering of course, but you can put the flashes anywhere to add light. I've even done this outside to light up buildings or trees in the distance. </p>

 

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Yes, <i>"trigger the studio lighting"</i>. Which consists of those <i>"tungsten studio lights"</i>, right?<br><i>"a PocketWizard Plus, a Metz 60 CT-4 flash, and tungsten studio lights"</i> are all that was mentioned.<br><br>Luther, please do chime in and explain what exactly you are hoping to achieve, so we can help and suggest ways to do that.
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Yes, Eric you are correct. I want to use both sets of lights together, in order to retain the TTlL provided by the Metz

system. A however, that does not seem possible. I think. I will have to use a light meter to measure the light output of the

lighting system and manually set the camera for the studio lighting. If this is true, I need to know what items I need to

attach to the Rolleiflex 6008, e.g., slave unit, PocketWizard receiver/transmitter, to trigger the lighting system. Part of the

problem is that I do not know what will work on the Rolleiflex 6008 to trigger studio lighting.

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If both sets of lights still consists of the Metz and the tungsten lights, the tungsten lights being "the studio lighting", you do not need anything to trigger the latter. On the contrary. You also do not need anything to connect the camera to the lights.<br>You just use the switch on the lights and switch them on quite a while before you need them, allow them to warm up. They are way too slow to be switched on the moment the flash synch fires the flash. Too slow to be switched on by a slave flash trigger unit.<br><br>And you're right: tungsten lights cannot be TTL-controlled. You do indeed need to measure them and set the aperture and shutterspeed before you press the button.<br>But you're camera can be controlled through its TTL-metering: set it to autoexposure, shutterspeed priority. That will work with tungsten lights as well as with any other form of continuous lighting (though you probably will find using a separate handheld meter makes metering a studio set much easier.).<br><br>You can combine tungsten lights with flash, but have to consider two things. The first is the colour of the light. Flash is about 6000 - 6500 K, tungsten much lower, about 3000 K (unless you use colour corrected - i.e. filtered - tungsten lamps. Or a set of HMI, but then we're no longer talking about tungsten lights).<br>The second is that the flash will add to the lighting produced by the tungsten lights. This will be most evident in the parts of the scene least illuminated by the tungsten lights. You will then have set up the tungsten lights to illuminate the scene the way you want to, then add the flash with an as yet unknown effect on the illumination, requiring tests (are you using a digital back?) to see what will be happening and to adjust the balance between flash and tungsten lights to what it should be.<br>And in extension (the second thing to consider, part two), even though the flash alone may allow use of a 1/500 (or 1/1000) shuterspeed, the balance in output between flash and studio lights will most probably not allow you to use the top part of the shutterspeed range. The faster the speed, the shorter the exposure, the less the effect of the tungsten lights, while the effect of he flash remains the same. This can be used to balance the effect of the two lighting systems. But if you are hoping that you can use fast speeds, you better make sure those tungsten lights are powerfull enough to allow them.<br><br>What i'm still curious about is what you hope to achieve using a Metz and a set of tungsten lights. Why add the flash?
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<p>Well there are several ways you can achieve this but having a meter would be really useful. You can leave the metz sca adapter in the camera's hot shoe and connect your studio lights via the sync port on the camera with a sync cable. In this set up its probably wise to let the metz be the main light of your subject and use the strobes as fill, or perhaps side or top lighting. The issue is that since the studio lights don't have TTL you'll have to meter them or make a good guess based on power settings and distance factors. Ideally the metz would have a higher setting on the subject such that the TTL would work properly. If you had a light meter you could set both to manual and get more consistent results however. Another option is to let the Metz expose the subject and let the shutter drag - using the studio lights as fill in over time without firing if the the constant on is strong enough. I think this works well with portraits as the image is just a bit softened by the shutter drag. One other separate issue you may need to resolve is that the two lights you have are different in color temperature. You'd want daylight film for the Metz but tungsten film for the studio lights. You can gel the lights or use a pop on color compensation filter over the metz. <br>

I have a lot of pocket wizards and also cables to connect the pocket wizards to the metz flashes so that I can leave on pocket wizard in the camera hot shoe, that fires both metz flashes and the studio strobes if I like. Anyhow there are a lot of possible configurations … </p>

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If those studio lights are indeed strobes, their output will have the same colour as that of the Metz and does not require tungsten balanced film and a filter on the Metz.<br>If the lights are tungsten lights, you do, but then you can't (don't need) to 'synch' them with the Metz.<br><br>Don't keep us in suspence, Luther: are those studio lights tungsten lights or flash units?
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<p>I spoke with the owner of the studio and he confirmed that the studio lights are flash units. I appreciate the information regarding tungsten balanced film, but I plan to shoot only black and white film during these sessions. I am a black and white film enthusiast, who usually shoots color using digital equipment. Maybe during some future sessions, I will use color film. Before I shoot color film, using the Rolleiflex 6008 with studio lighting, I will start another thread to obtain more guidance. O. G., I researched the information you allude to regarding the tungsten balanced film and the Metz filters. I am now slightly familiar with the Metz Filters. I found and read some reviews. I will have to locate a set of Metz filters for the Metz 60 CT-4 and try to learn more about their usage. I also understand the requirement for tungsten balanced film, if I shoot color.<br>

Eric, I have a Minolta Auto Meter IV F light meter. It has connectors for attaching and measuring studio lighting and flash lighting. I will take that meter with me to the training session on January 11, 2014. The other attendees will use digital equipment. I have used my digital equipment in stud settings, but almost nothing transfers over to using a Rolleiflex 6008 and film.<br>

Well there are several ways you can achieve this but having a meter would be really useful. You can leave the metz sca adapter in the camera's hot shoe and connect your studio lights via the sync port on the camera with a sync cable. In this set up its probably wise to let the metz be the main light of your subject and use the strobes as fill, or perhaps side or top lighting. I intend to try to set this up. If I can get this to work, then my lighting options are vastly increased.</p>

<p>The issue is that since the studio lights don't have TTL you'll have to meter them or make a good guess based on power settings and distance factors. Ideally the metz would have a higher setting on the subject such that the TTL would work properly. I comprehend this as setting the Metz to trigger at a higher/brighter setting, so that the Metz is triggered as the main lighting and the strobes are used for fill. otherwise, the Metz may not be triggered, because it thinks there is enough lighting. <br>

If you had a light meter you could set both to manual and get more consistent results however. Another option is to let the Metz expose the subject and let the shutter drag - using the studio lights as fill in over time without firing if the the constant on is strong enough. I think this works well with portraits as the image is just a bit softened by the shutter drag. One other separate issue you may need to resolve is that the two lights you have are different in color temperature. You'd want daylight film for the Metz but tungsten film for the studio lights. You can gel the lights or use a pop on color compensation filter over the Metz. The idea of softening the image in this manner is a very good idea, but I do not feel that I have the skills to pull this off right now. This is something that I intend to work on when I buy my first set of lighting equipment. I feel that this will take time an practice to achieve quality results.<br>

While researching this issue, I found information regarding a Rollieflex Master Control Unit (MCU). The information that I found indicates that if you use an MCU, you can use TTL to control studio lighting, while using a Rolleiflex 6008 Integral. I am still researching information about this item. It may also be an option. Thank you all again for your excellent input.</p>

<p> </p>

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If the studio units are flash, like the Metz, you will not need filters.<br>Though the colour temperature of the Metz and the studio flash units will not be exactly he same, but close enough. There would be a really huge difference if you would use tungsten lights and the Metz.<br>And since you are going to use B&W film, there is even less need to look into Metz filters.<br><br>The best way - by far - of using the Metz in conjunction with the studio flash units, is using the Metz as a trigger for the studio units only. But still: why the Metz?<br>Studio flash units offer a great number of ways of shaping the light they produce. They have modelling lights that allow you to see and judge how that all works out. They also offer much better control over their output. And put out a lot more light. The Metz, in comparison, is a bit of a simpleton. A weak one too.<br>So why use the Metz at all? I certainly wouldn't.<br><br>Using digital cameras and film cameras with studio flash isn't that much different.<br>The biggest difference is that while you set up the lights, and have to check the balance of the lighting to make sure that it is what you want it to be, it's easier to just click and check using a digital camera. However, you can do the same (i.e. set the lights so they'll produce what you want them to) without tests, just using a meter. And it's easier (not better) to use a digital camera's AWB, instead of having to meter the colour temperature and use the correct corection filters to get the proper colour.<br>Apart from that, both digital and film need you to set the right aperture to get the proper exposure.
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<p>Based on all of the discussed information, I will not use the Metz Flash, but will try to setup using the studio strobes/flash only. I would like to use TTL, if possible, but that may not happen, unless I can locate a Rolleiflex Master Control Unit and its manual. I do not think that any of the PocketWizards can use TTL on a Rolleiflex Integral.</p>
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TTL control requires both the camera offering such <i>and</i> the flash units being ready to be controlled that way.<br>Not many (i remember only some Bron units) offered TTL control through Metz SCA units. So don't count on being able to use TTL control.<br><br>But that's not bad news.<br>TTL control is fine. A great help when using lots of extension, or optical attachments that swallow up lots of light.<br>In normal situations, a hand held meter gives far greater control (you can meter any part of the scene, whereas TTL control measures whatever the camera and it's TTL sensor is pointed at, and it may need to be adjusted), and it is not hard to use.
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<p>Thank you. I will not count on it. I will keep it in mind though. When using this studio, I have to share the time with others, so TTL could ostensibly save me some time. However, quality is also and issue. The hand held metering is obviously more precise. I will weigh all of these factors when setting up a practice shoot.</p>
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