Metz 45 CT-5 and modern Nikon

Hi All,

 

Is this the right place to be asking these questions?

 

I have a Metz 45-CT5 with only the PC synce cable. It had been in a cupboard for at least 5 years and I dug it out after finding the pop-up flash on my Nikon D7000 was not enough for what I was doing.

 

Kudos to the Metz engineers, after jiggling the battery cage only once it came to life and worked like new.

 

Now, I see there were various SCA modules for this flash one of which (the 3401 I think) would allow TTL and all the features on a Nikon F5.

 

Does this mean it would also work on a D7000 and other digital Nikons?

here is the compatibility chart i found:

Metz SCA Module Feature Chart for Nikon Camera

 

 

Cheers,

Irvine

AFAIK no TTL control for any DSLR with SCA 300(0) systems.

You could utilize AF assist beams in some adapters though. - For Canon film bodies that only worked when the center spot was used. - For My Pentax DSLRs I had an AF assisting SCA module that ate lots of AAA cells (in the days before Eneloops). - I guess I'll stick to simple sync cables.

OK, you are correct, and my 45 CT5 has the newer and more obsolete SCA500 system.

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Metz Flash 45 CT-1, CT-3, CT-4, CT-5, CL-1, CL-3, CL-4, CL-4 digital. Mini Review and Comparison. Which one is Best? (Ciao 45er!)

 

The Metz 45ers are a range of very powerful handle mount flashes. Just after publishing the original blog post I realised that Metz filed for insolvency protection in November 2014. One of the first measures after insolvency was the reduction of their product offering and the last 45er in production - the Metz 45 CL-4 digital - was pulled from the program. As of January 2015 45ers can only be obtained second hand. Introduced in 1976 and produced up to 2014 the product was as iconic for Metz as the Beetle for Volkswagen. It saw a 38 year production run and had a reputation with professionals for ruggedness and delivering great light. Such a long production run, even when considering the updates, is no mean feat for any product in the fast moving consumer electronic world. All the more reason to look at the different models.

 

So which one is the best of the produced models?

 

Of course the answer depends on what you want to do with it. I will go through the main differences and the main advantages and disadvantages (from my personal perspective) for their use below.

 

The following descriptions are sorted in chronological order as the original naming and numbering is a bit confusing.

 

Metz 45 CT-1

The original model had a long production run and was actually produced in three different versions under the same name. The first two models with serial numbers below 534000 have high voltage circuits for the flash trigger and should not be directly attached to a digital camera. (Unless you have measured your Flash to be safe, and received assurance from the camera manufacturer that the voltage is safe.)

The last model with higher serial numbers can be used in automatic mode on any camera. The flash can not be used for any TTL control. The earlier models can use the Mecamat 45-20 and the later models use the Mecamat 45-43. Both Mecamats can be found easily on the second hand market.

 

The flash offers 5 automatic apertures. However the ISO range that can be selected is - at today's standards - quite limited from ISO 25 to ISO 400, which is appropriate for the film photography 30 or 40 years ago. The measuring range of the flash metering cell is fixed and which Apertures can be selected depend on the set ISO value.

 

The following Table shows the available Aperture values when selecting an ISO value (possible in 1/3 steps):

 

25 = 1.4 / 2 / 2.8 / 4 / 5.6

50 = 2 / 2.8 / 4 / 5.6 / 8

100 = 2.8 / 4 / 5.6 / 8 / 11

200 = 4 / 5.6 / 8 / 11 / 16

400 = 5.6 / 8 / 11 / 16 / 22

 

From today's perspective that is quite unsatisfactory. In 2015 there is no more 25 ISO film around and you are hard pressed to find a 50 or 64 still available or expired on the second hand market.

Digital cameras native ISO is 200. And only some advanced models offer to select ISO 100 or even ISO 50 with a slight loss in dynamic range and quality. One of the biggest advantages of digital imaging has been the amazing improvement of low light light image quality. Shooting with acceptable results 1600 to 3200 is in 2015 possible for most if not all current digital camera models.

 

So what happens when you set the Metz 45 CT-1 to ISO 400 and simply use ISO 1600 on your camera? You will have to choose the 5.6 automatic aperture on the flash and "compensate" by further closing down the aperture on your camera; 11 for ISO 1600 in this example and 16 for ISO 3200. This is possible but it makes rarely a lot of sense.

 

Today I would in most situations of casual family and event shooting try to drag the shutter to record the mood and feeling of the ambient light while highlighting (literally) the main motive with a bit of flash. If the shutter time necessary to record ambient light becomes to slow, you get ugly double outlines. Closing my aperture to 11 makes the shutter time very slow and negates the reason why I choose a high ISO in the first place. Not making a lot of sense.

Effectively the minimum ambient light level required by the Metz 45 CT-1 to execute this "drag the shutter with automatic flash" or "fill flash" if you like, is much higher than for modern TTL system integrated flash units.

 

Fill in flash in daylight on the other hand works quite well. With ISO 100 you can use apertures from 2.8 to 11 which should cater for most shooting situations. If you want the fill flash to not to be too obvious you can close the aperture accordingly.

 

The flash itself does only have two manual settings: Manual which is full power and Winder which is 1/64 power. But the fitting Mecamat (45-20 or 45-43) is easily available on the used market and allows seven manual settings from full power to 1/64. That makes the Metz 45 CT-1 with Mecamat quite useful for any full manual set up. To use the Mecamat the flash should be set to manual mode.

 

The Mecamat also expands the number of usable apertures in automatic mode to a total of 9 but unfortunately all additional apertures are above the ones that can be selected on the flash alone. That feature is very useful for macro photography where small apertures are selected and the macro extension of a bellows or rings might further diminish the "effective" aperture. (Remember: no TTL means that you need to calculate the effective aperture caused by filters, extension or teleconverters manually)

 

The later model above serial number 534000 can be triggered with any third party wireless trigger and can be included in a wireless trigger manual set up nicely. For earlier models the same caution as for cameras will need to be exercised. Not every wireless trigger is able to handle voltage above 250V. Be sure to use heavy duty triggers for studio strobes, and check with the manufacturer what is the specified maximum voltage. (The Phottix Atlas takes for example 300V)

 

There are very early production models that can even exceed 300V but they are few and far between in the used market today. I guess not many have been produced. Unfortunately I could not find any reliable source to determine the serial numbers of the early models.

 

If you can not attach your model to any electronic trigger the Mecalux 11 optical slave can be used. It takes any trigger voltage so it will work safely with all Metz models. The disadvantage is of course that it is a "simple" optical trigger and it can only be used in a completely manual set-up without any pre-flashes being used.

and the model I have:

Metz 45 CT-5

This was the first major update from the CT-1. It introduced three improved features compared to the older Model and it was sold for quite some time side by side with the CT-1 as the "luxury model".

 

It has a second flash reflector to get some direct fill when the main flash head is used to bounce light from the ceiling. The 45ers were powerful enough to give nicely illuminated rooms when bouncing from the ceiling and for many photographers this became the preferred method before TTL was introduced. This mitigated somewhat the disadvantages of not being able to capture ambient light mentioned above, as it created its own ambient light. Obviously you could not re-create specific light moods (without gels) but as shown in an earlier post the results were quite OK, and so much better than the "deer in headlight" look in front of a black hole that was prevalent at the time. The second small fill in reflector improved the look by giving catch lights in the eyes and avoiding dark shadows on faces when the bounce angle was too steep.

For the ceiling bouncing automatic mode it was a very useful enhancement.

 

It is therefore somewhat ironic that the second improvement was the first step to make that mode obsolete: The SCA500 system introduced camera specific functions and for some cameras TTL metering. The SCA 500 worked well with most manual focus film cameras. It can not be used with any digital camera. For users of old manual focus film cameras like Nikon F3 or Canon F1new or Canon T90 the SCA500 works fully fine. (Or equivalent cameras from Minolta, Pentax, Olympus, Contax or Leica).

 

The automatic mode was a bit enhanced by offering 6 Apertures. The additional aperture was at the useful lower end and with ISO 100 the apertures from 2 to 11 could be selected. One stop better than mentioned above for the CT-1 above. Also the ISO selection has been improved to cover ISO 25 to ISO 800.

 

Aperture values selectable have been improved to

 

25 = 1 / 1.4 / 2 / 2.8 / 4 / 5.6

50 = 1.4 / 2 / 2.8 / 4 / 5.6 / 8

100 = 2 / 2.8 / 4 / 5.6 / 8 / 11

200 = 2.8 / 4 / 5.6 / 8 / 11 / 16

400 = 4 / 5.6 / 8 / 11 / 16 / 22

800 = 5.6 / 8 / 11 / 16 / 22 / 32

 

Using a Metz 45 CT-5 in automatic mode on a modern DSLR allows to cover neatly all apertures of the pro zooms at ISO 200. The effective 1 stop enhancement makes it a bit more usable for dragging the shutter. But essentially the same limitations as for the Metz 45 CT-1 apply.

 

The Metz 45 CT-5 also has only two manual settings like its little brother (Full and Winder) it uses the Mecamat 45-30 which seems to be plenty in supply in today's used market. The flash has to be set to manual, and the Mecamat works like its earlier sister models described above.

 

It needs to be noted that the introduction of SCA500 meant that the electronics to provide special camera features and to communicate with the camera for flash ready and flash OK indicators had to be run at a much lower voltage. Therefore the high voltage flash circuit had to be separated from the lower voltage automatic and camera connection electronics. Check before you attach one of these oldies to your DSLR, but all pro and advanced enthusiast models with a PC connector should be able to take the voltage of the 45 CT-5.

 

The Metz 45 CT-5 used a different cable connector than the CT-1

SCA300 does not work with the current Nikon i-TTL system.

 

I have a collection of old hammerhead Metzes, and quite frankly they've had their day.

 

For a start they don't really have a GN of 45, or anywhere near. Secondly their recycle time is far longer than any modern speedlight. Thirdly the battery packs have a pathetic capacity unless re-celled (not an easy task). Fourthly the synch leads are becoming brittle and corroded with age.

 

Lastly, for me, they're overly bulky and heavy, cumbersome to use off-camera (and on!) and don't have the flexibility of automation or manual power selection of any reasonably modern flash. OK, a Mecamat addresses this, but adds a box almost the size of a speedlight to the top of your camera. With a user interface that's near impenetrable.

 

Also, Metz's prices make it cheaper to buy something like a complete YongNuo speedlight rather than replace a synch lead or SCA module.

 

There's a good reason that these old battleships lie unsold at camera fairs, even at near-giveaway prices.

Edited September 20, 2017 by rodeo_joe|1

OK, compared to a GODOX TT685 that has a guide number of 60, costs $120.00 and weighs a fraction - I see your point.

Whats the trigger voltage?

You may need one of those voltage droppers.

Whats the trigger voltage?

You may need one of those voltage droppers.

it's low enough according to what I have read, it was only early versions of the 45-CT1 than would fry your DSLR.

It never fried my Pentax K100 and after an evening's playing around my Nikon D7000 also survived

I've used my METZ 45 CL4 on everything including my old Leicas up to my Nikon D300 and my Olympus Epl-2. Not TTL, but the automatic settings. Works great, even for macros.

indeed - but tell me this: It is all very well with an autofocus camera but how the heck are you supposed to focus a manual camera if you have that monster mounted?

how the heck are you supposed to focus a manual camera if you have that monster mounted?

I#m not very familiar with the 45CT#s. The similar sized 60CT4 was absolutely no problem. you held the flash with your left hand, focused with your right and had a dedicated cable release to shoot with your left too. Maybe you have to mount the 45 onto something like stroboframe for the same effect, if the Metz cable release can't get attached to it. or you managed to stabilize the unit with your focusing left wrist. - it wasn't entirely impossible. - Almost every journalsist around here used to do it.

You may need one of those voltage droppers.

Nope. - Any SCA flash is AFAIK entirely safe. Only ancient pre-SCA Metz flashes are dangerous. - But I think I read Nikon DSLRs can handle a lot of trigger Voltage compared to Pentaxes and Leicas?

the battery packs have a pathetic capacity unless re-celled (not an easy task).

Agreed. comparing undead NiCd 600mAh to modern cells... For recelling there are specialized services that I'd use but it is also very easy to cobble some wires into an original AA case, attach a Tamiya plug and power the Metz via 7.2V RC car race packs.

When I used 60 & 45 wired to ham radio PSUs in the studio recycle time wasn't an issue, so I'd blame the tiny AA cells for it.

 

I still love the UI of the 60. - Unfortunately the 45's isn't that well made.

indeed - but tell me this: It is all very well with an autofocus camera but how the heck are you supposed to focus a manual camera if you have that monster mounted?

I manual focus with the 45-CT1, 60-CT2 and 60-CT4 without a problem. The 45 series although smaller is a bit heavier because it's self contained. On the 60 most of the weight is on your shoulder.

The 60CT4 is nice because I can use ISO1600 @ f/5.6. At that settings it can recycle very fast.

Try screwing one to the top of a lighting stand and then attempt to point it downwards! Or try fixing a brolly to it - or vice versa.

 

Unless there's an adapter that I'm unaware of, the above are near impossible tasks.

 

I'm disallowing the use of velcro BTW. Tried it, and it will droop and give way on you.

 

So basically a Metz xx CTx is just a very heavy camera grip that also happens to put out a bit of light. - If you're prepared to wait a while between full-power pops and don't mind a 1960s curly telephone cable winding itself round your neck.

For manual focus I have mine mounted on an l bracket which the camera is attached to. I hold the flash with one hand, focus with the other, remove focus hand and depress the shutter. Not a big deal IMHO. I guess it may be a learned skill for some, but that's how most press people did it for the last half of the 20th century.

Try screwing one to the top of a lighting stand and then attempt to point it downwards!

Seemed easy. - The bar to be screwed below your camera has both tripod threads; so mounting the flash upside down on your lightstand is no problem. If you extend the stand pretty far you can even check the flash's settings from below. - Try the same on the back of a Jinbei facing downwards.

I did arrive at the "upside down" mounting solution some time ago, but it's hardly elegant.

 

Given that the true GN of a 45 CT-x is around 30, and barely more than any decent speedlight; why would anyone put up with their numerous shortcomings these days?

 

I have quite a few 45CT-x and a couple of 60 CT-x outfits. The 45CT's really aren't worth the bother of constantly charging, and the 60s can be replaced to advantage with a pair of hotshoe speedlights pointed into the same modifier or mounted on the same camera bracket.

 

If I could find a buyer that would cover the cost of re-celling all the Metz battery packs, I'd gladly get shot of the lot of 'em.

My 60CT4 is nice because I can use it at ISO 1600 and f/5.6. At that setting even with bounce it will recycle very fast.

I did arrive at the "upside down" mounting solution some time ago, but it's hardly elegant.

 

Given that the true GN of a 45 CT-x is around 30, and barely more than any decent speedlight; why would anyone put up with their numerous shortcomings these days?

 

I have quite a few 45CT-x and a couple of 60 CT-x outfits. The 45CT's really aren't worth the bother of constantly charging, and the 60s can be replaced to advantage with a pair of hotshoe speedlights pointed into the same modifier or mounted on the same camera bracket.

 

If I could find a buyer that would cover the cost of re-celling all the Metz battery packs, I'd gladly get shot of the lot of 'em.

 

What would you want for your 45 with bad battery pack?

I honestly don't know what the fuss is about. I still use my old Sunpak 611 with my Fuji FinepixS9500! I've replaced the sub-C NiCd with modern "C" rechargeable batteries & increased the rapid charge time to allow for the different capacity.

All I did was get a spare bracket & cut the right hand end down to stop at the end of the smaller Fuji body! I also fitted a second plate & spike for the bracket QD so I can swap to vertical format.

I guess its what you're used to I shot commercially with a Nikkormat & a Braun 9000. If you think a 45 ct or a 611 is big try the Braun Its YUUUUGE!

 

Oh BTW this is the list for camera & flash compatibility for trigger voltages.

Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages

Oh no! Not that Botzilla list again!

 

That list was compiled by random people. Some of whom obviously didn't possess either the skills or equipment to properly measure a flash synch voltage.

 

Let me state quite categorically: A cheap 10 megohm input impedance digital multimeter is NOT capable of directly and accurately measuring the trigger voltage of old flashes that have a high resistance trigger circuit.

 

Those old circuits took the trigger voltage directly from the main storage capacitor via a multi-megohm resistor. The value of that resistor was anywhere in the range of 3.3 to 22 megohms. Such a high source impedance prevents a 10 Mohm input multimeter from accurately measuring the open-circuit voltage, and results in at least a 33% measurement error.

 

Accurate measurement requires an expensive electrometer instrument, or the use of multiple measurements via additional resistors. The additional resistor method then requires the solution of simultaneous equations to arrive at the true voltage. - I'm pretty sure that almost none of the Botzilla contributers bothered to do that!

 

However, what can be concluded from that list is that any trigger voltage crudely measured at over 120 volts almost certainly has a true O/C potential of somewhere in the region of 330 to 360 volts. That being the common tube/storage capacitor/trigger voltage for such old flashes.

 

SCA compatible flashes must have a trigger voltage of 24 or less, which is the maximum allowed by the IEEE standard introduced at that time.

 

The trend since then has been for lower and lower trigger voltages and currents. Some flashes now have such low trigger potentials that some radio/optical trigger devices and flashmeters fail to fire them.

Edited September 21, 2017 by rodeo_joe|1

Gee, sorry I tried to help. I won't do it any more.

Not your fault Chaz.

 

I'm just sick of that Botzilla site's sloppiness in accepting any old trigger voltage "measurement" at face value.

 

I think if you're going to set up such a reference, then you ought to know enough about the subject to administer it properly, and at least give some guidelines on how to go about the job of measurement.

 

For example: Nikon state that all their DSLRs will withstand a trigger voltage of 250 v. The Botzilla site data would imply that 95% of flashes are "safe" in that case, but once you add a minimum of 33% error to those readings, you find they're not safe at all.

indeed - but tell me this: It is all very well with an autofocus camera but how the heck are you supposed to focus a manual camera if you have that monster mounted?

 

Not this flash but a Strobonar 800.

I had the flash connected to the camera via its bracket.

Focused w my left hand.

Then released the flash and held it above my head w my left hand.

This worked just fine for most all the shoots I used a hammer head/potato masher flash for.