Methodology and Ethics - Baiting for Avian Predators

I set up my bazooka today over a perch erected over feeders

frequented mainly by finches this time of year. Using Al Servo mode

with spot metering and good lighting, I was able to freeze finches in

various postions, (though less than 10% of shots were keepers).

 

The thought occurred to me that this method might be transposed to

avian predators/scavengers in terms of a perch situated over fresh

meat. I harvested one of the numerous whitetail bucks last year in

my back lot, and saw hawks frequenting the gut pile (before I got my

bazooka, so no photos).

 

A simple perch over bait, with the lens offset to the side with

simple cardboard barriers to channel flight might be effective. The

perch would be placed outside of the actual photo, giving the

illusion of free flight by various predatory avian species.

 

I'd love to get shots of black vultures and various raptors, and

think it might be possible this way.

 

Legal? Ethical? Any other methodology employed by photographers on

this site? Willing to share thoughts?<div></div>

I'd start by looking at:

http://www.naturephotographers.net/ethics.html

 

I, as a biologist am not too keen on feeders, but its not so much from an ethical standpoint, but rather biological. Also, I appreciate the role of photographers in generating interest in biota of all sorts so...its tough.

 

Its important to avoid habituating fauna. Having said that, many song birds that exist in urban settings will be no worse off for your feeder. Raptors are another story.

 

Editoral aside, we are looking at a method and not a methodology.

There are certainly ethical issues here. There may be legal ones as well. I'd check with your

fish and wildlife agency before trying this.

 

I get most of my raptor pictures by driving down back roads and photographing them out of

car windows, or fortuitiously if they're flying overhead. Once or twice I've stumbled upon a

nest site and by observing flight patterns, was able to get flight shots of the adults coming

and going (I've never set up a blind near a raptor nest -- lots of risk of disturbance).

I'll bet the vast majority of good spotted owl photos involved mousing. That's where you put a dead mouse (or a live one!) where the bird will see it, and take the photo at the opportune time. Ethical? I dunno, but I'm sure the bird doesn't care how the mouse got there, only that it has dinner...

 

It's usually illegal to use bait when hunting, but that's for killing animals. I don't think chumming for photographic purposes is as severely restricted.

i would think it would be OK, legal and ethacal, as long as you just took photos, and didn,t bait as an ongoing practice,or kill or distubed a nesting site. i use bird seed and props to take photos, and feel i,am doing nothing wrong. it is most likely what many other photographers do to get wonderful photos of wild life.

Thanks for the responses.

 

I checked out the ethics page at Nature Photographers (where I bought some gear recently) and don't see any red flags there. I live in the boonies in Maine, no urban threats here.

 

I think it's ok to do this. Also, in cases where there is ambiguity in species identification, I pledge to use steel shot (not lead) in my shotgun.

 

(I am joking, honest officer.)

 

Mark, I'm amazed that you don't use similar methods to get the stunning photos you have. You are indeed one lucky and skilled photographer.

 

Comon fellow photonetters, what other methods can one use? I for one agree that many photographers use similar methods to get great nature shots, and I wish they would fess up.

 

A black vulture flew over my house tonight, I worked a night shift last night and was too slow, but I'm gonna get that shot over bait soon.

I have gone out & spent hours trying to get the "shot" waiting at the right places.

 

Then - upon returning home & putting my gear away - walk outside into the back of the lot & there's a great bird/birds flying right overhead! Oh well:)

 

I had a small mouse that had died somehow on my rear deck & was planning to remove it & as I went to do so I had a Great Egret walking aroung out back. I waited & watched & although it was curious it poked at the mouse & decided no go and passed on it.

 

I personally prefer to shoot photographs of birds/wildlife under their terms of living & eating habits without disturbing them.

Michael, lets put ethical and legal part of the issue on the side. Ethical feelings are often judged by how particular person feels about own actions. Legal aspect become illegal only when this person was caught.

 

Let ask yourself a few questions and just be honest to answer them. You are the only judge of yourself.

 

What benefits will be achieve from getting the photo when baiting, making calls or anything similar? Is this photographed specimen, or maybe all humanity, nature or entire Earth will be bless? Or the only benefit will be one shot so much alike like millions another's already taken.

 

What can be learn from behaviors like those? Will it bring anything new to know about photographed species? Will this add anything to photographer knowledge of nature?

 

Even if the only purpose is to get nice photo of the bird it is much more pleasure to go out and spend time observing nature. Sooner or later opportunity will come. And you will feel good about yourself.

 

For what it is worth I never used bait or made calls to get a photograph. I am taking very few record shots near feeders and it always was very boring time to do it.

 

Well, we are all different. You have to choose your own path which will give you satisfaction. Just never try to cheat on yourself. Regards, Mark

I just noticed that you asked for tricks. Patience, patience, patience are the only tricks I know. Example: last week I spent a few hours observing Yellow-rumped Warbler hunting on the edge of water between marshes. After an hour or so it got so much used to my present that few times decided to pick up the prey just couple of feet away from me. Way too close for my lens to focus. But I got many full frame photos of this little fellow anyway. About quarter of original frame:

<p style="text-align:center"><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/4146629-lg.jpg" /></p>

I'm going to avoid the ethical side of this... too historically contentious. Since vultures were mentioned it did bring to mind something fascinating I saw in a David Attenborough documentary (perhaps "Life Of Birds").

 

The camera crew scanned the skies, which were completely clear of any birds. He then took a 2 lb piece of rank meat (not a carcass, just a chunk of rotting meat) and hid it under some leaves in a thick stand of trees on a hillside. Within 30 mins or so there were turkey vultures coming in to check it out, uncover it, and dine. The point of the demo was to exhibit just how sensitive a turkey vulure's nose is.

I have often "talked" to the birds I'm shooting - holding the camera to my eye & slowly approaching - once I sense a bit of discomfort I will stop & back off a step or two - all the while gently talking likes it's okay, etc.

 

May help me that we have an African Grey Parrot named Oliver that has taught me immeasurably how fickle birds can be.

 

So as others have suggested - patience is key.

 

I will some days be out for 4 hours or so with no shots - other days I can't get enough - I do feel that being in the right spot at the right time counts but it helps to be there before the birds are. I have a few spots I go to that at 3:30 or so are quiet with no activity - I set up & simply wait for a while & either they show up or they don't depending on weather or mood.

 

If I come home with no shots I do not get annoyed as they have given me so many shots otherwise.

 

Kind of like fishing - if you can enjoy just being out & having a nice time being outdoors is all that matters. Get a few good shots - great - get none - oh well - still had a nice time.

I'm of the opinion that illegal activities are just that. Too much to risk in "getting caught" for me!

 

I also am of the opinion that the birds don't really care whether I get their picture or not, as long as their bellies are full. Am I going to habituate a raptor to my offering of steak? Are the finches worse off for the thistle I feed them with snow covering their natural feed?

 

I'm not interested in repeating other's photography. I want to do my own, and part of the joy will be the method. I would be thrilled to have a raptor come in to a feed station I have devised, and even more thrilled to photograph the animal. I am thrilled with my finch pictures.

 

I offer the animals no harm, but wish to study them closely through photography. My immature hawk stimulated a fair amount of discussion on this forum, I seek more to learn.

 

I do not and will not sell my work. I do it for the joy and the chase. I suggest the righteous look within themselves, and see if they too work for the joy or some other purpose.

 

Will my photography stimulate more sensitivity locally to wild things? I hope so, I know it has for me. I can't imagine harming the animals I photograph, and hope to instill that feeling in others.

 

No copyrights on my work. Feel free to distribute anything I post. I've just started but stay tuned.

 

I think my methods are harmless and fair. I don't seek tricks or elitism. I seek and will share methods. This thread has helped me decide that what I plan is ethical.

 

 

Thanks again for the responses. This site has some superb photographers.

I would definitely look into the legalities of it in your area, and research it a bit to see what else you might be attracting. An attempt to draw in vultures might inadvertently draw in some mammals you won't want around and/or habituated. If you have neighbors, especially someone with domestic pets that might get into the rotting meat, they might not be too happy about it. How many raptors will scavenge as opposed to going for live prey? Not sure what you will get in your area besides vultures.

Kinda disgusting, but the deer entrails last fall were attractive to hawks.

 

Also, I live in the boonies, and have a small dog that seems to like to play with the coyotes out back. The nearest neighbor is 500 feet away, and the next nearest is 1/4 mile.

 

The feeding station I envision will be an elevated platform, well out of reach of coyotes and bear. No rotting meat either, limited portions of fresh steak cleared well before decomposition. I would assume rotten meat would harm these animals.

 

Interesting to recall the Attenboro documentary Greg. I remember that well now.

 

If I get only black vultures, great. Maine has a large population of bald eagles however, and I suspect I will be posting photos soon of many different species.

 

State law restricts baiting only as related to hunting. I have no intention of harming these animals, I want to photograph them again and again! (Hope it works.)

 

I have some time off next week, hope to post soon.

Seeing your angry reply I am now almost sure that you will have no problem to justify your actions (any actions you will find beneficial to you) . I tried to not go too deep in legal aspects but rather talk about it half-serious living the room for one own thoughts. Heather did a great job pointing a few very important consequences of not well thought actions. I could argue with many of your statements but I think there is no use for it. You already made your mind before this post anyway. As long as you will be happy with your decisions and will not get caught you will be OK with yourself.

 

As far as matter of others joy, do not be so quick in your judgment either without knowing the person. I not only have a degree in zoology (photography is second to that interest not first) but studying the nature is my life-time commitment for as long as I can remember. Chosen because of joy. BTW all money from selling photographs go back to equipment and trips so I can have more joy :).

 

Sorry (both for you and me) for trying to suggest anything. Have a nice day.

<I>Comon fellow photonetters, what other methods can one use? I for one agree that

many photographers use similar methods to get great nature shots, and I wish they would

fess up.</i><P>

 

Forgive me for being blunt, but what makes you so smugly confident about that? Yes,

various manipulations and tricks are employed now and then. Myself, I've visited the

semi-infamous Homer eagle feeding, and in situations where I'm quite confident it won't

be too disruptive I'll sometimes use playback. But you seem sure that the intensely

manipualtive 'nature-faking' approach is the rule rather than the exception among wildlife

photographers. In my experience, most really good nature shooters depend largely or

exclusively on what Mark B suggested: great patience, a respect for your subjects and a

willingness to go where they are, and knowledge of their habits so that you can anticiapte

what they are likely to do and work close to them with minimal disturbance. Those

methods certainly work very well for him, and for me, and for lots of others. <P>

 

<I>Am I going to habituate a raptor to my offering of steak? Are the finches worse off for

the thistle I feed them with snow covering their natural feed?</i><P>

 

I know I'm sounding a bit preachy, but this strikes me as a mild case of hubris. Yes, as a

matter of fact, you might habituate raptors, although I'm a little skeptical that you'll be

able to attract most hawks with dead meat -- when falconers set out to catch hawks, they

use live bait. Possibly that habituation could lead the birds to associate houses with food

and end up getting shot or smacking into a window. Those things do happen -- I've seen

at least one sharp-shinned hawk kill itself on a window after it got habituated to snacking

on small birds at a nearby seed feeder. Same for a pigmy owl when I was a kid. <P>

 

You could also facilitate disease transmission. A few years ago, California Fish and Game

requested that people shut down seed feeders because of an infection that was being

transmitted via the fecal contamination and dense populations at feeders. IIRC, house

finches were the primary victims. <P>

 

My main point is not that these dire scenarios are necessarily likely in your proposed hawk

baiting, but that there are often unintended consequences when you set out to manipulate

wildlife. In Homer, where flocks of 100+ bald eagles have been fed for many years and

where legions of nature photographers have made pilgrimages to photograph them,

wildlife managers are concerned about disease potential (presumably even more so now

that avian flu is a possibility) and the impact of abnormally high eagle populations on prey

species like colonial seabirds. Also, a few residents have apparently had their kitties and

small dogs nailed by the eagles. Consequently, the authorities are banning eagle feeding

(although the ban won't be complete for a few more years).

Another grey area with no easy black and white answers. We do feed the smaller birds on a regular basis and they are probably somewhat habituated BUT to a large extent we are making up for the habitat loss that has seen so many numbers reduced. Garden feeding in the UK now is one of the major food sources for many birds and is accepted by the organisations involved.

 

The raptors sit at the top of the chain and their numbers increase as their prey species increase. As regards the use of bait I agree with both the Marks on this. The side effects can in my opinion can do more harm than good. The use of patience is to my view a virtue in this area.

 

I am sorry but I cannot avoid being contentious, the "harvesting" ( killing ) of another wild creature to provide the bait is to me a double negative for what you propose.

No angry responses here, amused. Also, not illegal, and nothing to get caught about!

 

Righteousness and elitism: I too am a scientist, a degree in Microbiology and and advanced degree beyond that. Preaching about disease transmission and making hawks fly into windows is absurd for what I plan. Gobblygook tree hugging balderdash.

 

 

You do bring up a good point however, and live bait probably would be more effective. Black mice at the pet store are pretty cheap, hmmm...now I need to figure out a presentation method. Any suggestions?

<I>Black mice at the pet store are pretty cheap, hmmm...now I need to figure out a presentation method. Any suggestions?</I>

<P>

 

Only one suggestion: seek professional help, hope they have one in the boonies. If urgent help needed cal 911.

How about baby chicks? Careless pet owners are always having litters of kittens they don't want.

 

The possibilities are endless!

"Thanks again for the responses. This site has some superb photographers" - recognise the quote ? It is one of yours. As far as I know none of the superb photographers on this site use the methods you are advocating. I suggest you take a leaf out of their book and emulate them and their methods.

Obviously joking with everyone, and hope you have a sense of humor here.

 

No live bait, just steak and some fish from the fish store.

Some ideas on constructing raptor perches:

 

http://members.tripod.com/~Tommy51/perch.html

Michael: since you seem to have infinite wisdome and already know all the answers, why ask

us?

There is always one who knows better than all the rest.