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Meter Maids looking for Terrorist/Photographers


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<p>Yes, Jean-Yves, they are. And these people (who are public employees, tied to law enforcement) are probably the most familiar - of anyone - with the regular comings and goings of people and vehicles in the areas they work. It would be absurd not to give them some training so that their observational skills can be tuned up a bit when it comes to the sort of thing that - just by dumb luck - happened not to kill a bunch of people in NY the other day.</p>
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<p>Sorry, with all of life around them, we actually expect meter maids and parking attendants to know the difference between a real attempt and just some innocent, misinterpreted act? I'm sure some of them can and there will be incidents where they save some people, but it's becoming the Dick Cheney mentality these days to suspect everyone with the slightest shread or hints of terrorism in hopes of not ever being victims. How many innocent people will be investigated based on their judgement with no real evidence of terrorism? When we will wake up and realize we've lost our privacy, freedom and right from police investigation and arrest because others suspect us based on nothing more than us being stupid for a moment?</p>

<p>As for the NYC bomber, he was an idiot. And if he had really known what to do, the end would have been different, and I doubt any meter maid or parking attendant would have noticed it in time. How many bombings occur every day in the world, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan and other countries with on-going civil wars? How many people have died in Iraq from car bombs, suicide bombers, etc. since March 2003? And we've had two in the last 15+ years?</p>

<p>Do we really want to live knowing many of the people we cross paths with during the day may suspect us if we don't behave, express ourselves or do something they think is suspicious or worse, their definition of terrorism? As photographers, we should know and maybe have experienced this just standing somewhere with a camera. </p>

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<p>How much can I write without violating copyright law, I posted the link for people to make their own determination, if you read the article any person with a camera may become a suspect the bigger the camera the bigger the suspect (my opinion). Not sure why a terrorist would even bother to go take photos google has views of most city street readily available. I personally don't do as much street photography as I did and when I do prefer to take my G11 rather than my DSLR, as most people seem to think that small cameras are not the type terrorist would use. I have yet to read where a terrorist went to take photos before hand. In Houston one can find cars illegally parked almost any hour of the day. I have yet to have some one ask me why I am taking a photo of an alligator, but at least four times as to why I am taking a photo of a building.</p>
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<blockquote>How much can I write without violating copyright law,</blockquote>

<p>

As much as you like. You could enrichen the opening post with your opinion on the subject. It would at the very least give a starting point - even a reason - for the discussion.

</p>

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<blockquote>if you read the article any person with a camera may become a suspect</blockquote>

<p>

I did. Much as we like to feel put upon, there is nothing there to suggest that the average photographer is being singled out for undue persecution. It is a programme to train a body of people to recognise behaviour that may indicate an upcoming threat. So what?

</p>

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<blockquote>

Sorry, with all of life around them, we actually expect meter maids and parking attendants to know the difference between a real attempt and just some innocent, misinterpreted act?

</blockquote>

<p>

Whether or not it will work... who can tell? I'm interested to see how this pans out. But assuming that it will bring the black helicopters down on anyone with a camera doesn't, to my mind, really do anyone any good.

</p>

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<p>A new government program aims to train thousands of parking industry employees nationwide to watch for and report anything suspicious — abandoned cars, for example, or people hanging around garages, <strong>taking photographs</strong> or asking unusual questions. I would think that taking photographs does seem to single out someone with a camera.<br /> 1) abandoned cars;<br /> 2) hanging around garages;<br /> 3) <strong>taking photographs</strong>, that happens when one has a camera;<br /> 4) asking unusual questions,</p>

<p>this is only the second time that I have posted a question, I am not the type normally asks for help, so I apologize if I did not meet a standard. If there is a next time I will do better, however the article at least to me is alarming. As I posted earlier, I have never been asked what I was doing when photographing an alligator but have for photographing buildings. Heck If I wanted to start a fire storm I could post a boycott Arizona on the off topic forum, I have strong opinions on that.</p>

 

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<p>Hahhaahaa. Amen Manuel. They're a bunch of pencil necked bureaucrats behaving just like they did no so long ago concerning photography in the subways of NYC. Have you ever met a parking attendant or meter maid that gave a crap? Whats a male meter maid called. A meter butler? <br>

I'm an olive skinned Greek. Think I'll get a good tan, wear one of those keffiyeh's, and a few cameras around my neck. I wouldn't worry about it. </p>

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<p>This is only going to increase the number of confrontations between photographers and police that is already happening. The NYCLU currently has a case pending against DHS for harassing photographers around government buildings in downtown Manhattan. Several photographers have won cash settlements for being detained and/or questioned by the NYPD.<br>

Photography is NOT a crime and there is no excuse for government to continue to treat us as if we are criminals.</p>

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<p>"2) hanging around garages;"</p>

<p>One can take very good city-scape images from multi-story parking garages. Would this mean all cameras and cell phones (most have a camera feature) would be banned from parking garages?</p>

<p>"3) <strong>taking photographs</strong>, that happens when one has a camera;"</p>

<p>This could create a whole new sub-department for Home Security. Think of it as creating jobs in a down economy... The TSI folks at the airports, and the Total Camera Control (TCC) folks on city streets, at every parking garage entry point, and most governmental buildings. Will they allow photography in farming areas?</p>

<p> </p>

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<p>…this is just getting beyond ridiculous.</p>

<p>A few years ago, I could never have imagined a world where photography was a suspicious activity that you could get arrested for…now I realise just how stupid I was to think that they wouldn't find any reason to suspect anyone of doing anything…</p>

<p>Not that photography is harmless — it can do a lot of damage. But to have such high suspicion of people holding cameras…</p>

<p>This isn't the most pathetic yet. I once got stopped and searched for having, to quote the officer who stopped me, ‘a big bag and a camera’. They also took my ID number down…surprised that idiot could give me an excuse like that with a straight face.</p>

<p>Surely a terrorist would learn from Intelligence officers in the 50s & 60s and use a camera strapped to their body underneath a coat or something?</p>

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<p>Living in the UK, I am old enough to remember the 30 years of security awareness as a result of the IRA terrorism. Awareness of activity and human behaviour was something everyone learned by common sense and as long as the training is done in that frame of mind I am all for it. And I think the level of importance that photography has in this is being grossly overplayed.<br>

My (admittedly slight) concern is that if this trainng is done in the 'the Dick Cheney mentality' (good phrase, Scott) then we will get hyper-awareness and false accusations, but I think most membes of the public are quite sane and unlikely to be brainwashed by that sort of paranoia. And the trainigng may actually help over-sensitivty.</p>

<p>Actually, I am sure that 'meter maids' do develop a good sense of things being out of place. They learn to recognise cars that have been there longer than the permitted period, cars that are out of place and owners acting furtively (even if it is those who have not actually fed, or are re-feeding meters) so they are a useful adjunct to other law enforcement staff. No-one is telling them they are the security services with a whole load of responsibility if anything goes wrong, just that they have a part to play. That is all.</p>

 

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<p>Clearly, these unusual people must be attempting to undermine society; the norm is doing nothing and making lots of money for it. Or, not being employed with anything at all, and getting derided by everyone else.</p>

<p>Anyone doing or making something must be subversive.</p>

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<p>On returning home from these wars, I have to say, these "police state" type Patriot Act suspicions and the Wall Street crash with a sprinkling of a Bernie Madoff scandal: these kinds of behaviors have really disappointed me. Somehow it really seems like people have gone too far in the wrong direction. </p>

<p>I would really prefer to see a little more honest work and study in life. These suspicions and scandals are just not cutting it. I wish there was more self confidence and fewer confidence games. </p>

<p>I don't know how to fix it, guys. Try a handshake and a regular deal with looking somebody in the eye. More ways to sue and snooker somebody ain't cutting it. Maybe we should just ignore the lawyers and get back to being men. </p>

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<blockquote>

<p>"Photography is NOT a crime and there is no excuse for government to continue to treat us as if we are criminals."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>How true this statement is! But . . . Remember when somewhere around just about any Airport you could see a group/individuals taking photo's and watching the Aircraft take-off and Land.</p>

<p>Try that today and tell me that you are not made to feel like a criminal!</p>

<p>My last experience . . . Was not even on the Airport property and was about 2 miles away from any Terminal building, on the outer road next to the freeway in a widened area of the outer road where people at one time were able to park and view the Aircraft.</p>

<p>Within 5 minutes (before I had even taken a shot!) a City Police Officer showed up, told me that I would have to leave and that he would have to take the roll of film that was in my camera!<br>

I refused to give up the film and told him that I would gladly leave, but he would have to arrest me to get the film.<br>

I was not arrested but was informed that I could be "because of the Patriot Act, and also because of the Patriot Act, I, nor anyone else could no longer take pictures or watch the Airplanes at the Airport as they took off or landed!</p>

<p>The Officer did take and run my Driver's License, which was fine by me, but the "I'm in charge" type attitude was not necessary just because I had parked there, or had a "big" camera in hand!</p>

<p>Of course, I'm a "Smoker" too! So I'm getting used to being made to feel like a "criminal!"</p>

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<p>I think it's a good program and necessary since we are at war. Sometimes I wonder if Americans fully understand this. It's not a conventional war by any means. . .but clearly lives are at stake. . .and blood has already been shed on American soil. The garage attendants and MMs would not just be looking for photographers. . .but for suspicious activity suggestive of terrorist (i.e., war) activity.</p>
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<p>In my area, I don't think I have ever heard of one single incident of a criminal using a camera for anything other than illegal merchandise. Usually "no shirt" or "no pants" is far more likely to indicate suspicious activity. </p>
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<p>Shoe bomber: Everyone has to take their shoes off at TSA checkpoints<br>

Latest NYC Pakistani Taliban: CNN reports he didn't like sunlight. <br>

Show me any report that links the use of a camera to a terrorist plot. Or, anyone that was stopped that had a camera that had ties with some extremist group. Any........<br>

<br /><br>

<br /></p>

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<p>Just one point of correction and a couple of more points as food for thought/discussion. . .<br /> To correct my last post, I think the program is a good IDEA. . .I don't know if it's a good program yet. That will depend on the quality and effectiveness of the training.<br /> After reading a few more of the posts I couldn't help but think how much of the fears and concerns seem so familiar. If you've ever had the distinction (LOL) to be a black man in America, then this would all be old hat for you. Try this: Shopping in Gristedes on 96th and Broadway is "suspicious activity" when the shopper is a black male. (Been there. Done that.) Less than a year ago I was approached by a cop as I stood at the check out counter at CVS and questioned because I fit the description of a man who was passing off bad checks at a local bank. What was his description: a black male. I had to leave the line, walk back to my car and hand over my ID. The cop didn't apologize when he told me (after taking my info) that I couldn't be the guy because the guy they were looking for fled on foot, not by car. Yes, this was inconvenient for me, but believe it or not, I was not bothered by it at all. . .I guess I've gotten so accustomed to this sort of thing. That doesn't make it right. But I do recognize that it could have been worse if the cop was a little bit stupider!<br /> So, hey. . .now in post 9/11 America I get to be both black AND a photographer! Being a photographer is no more a crime than being black or being a catholic priest. And being profiled and/or harassed is never OK, no matter what the reason. But it happens folks. Protest and activism may increase awareness and maybe even result in improved policy and/or legislation. And these will be beneficial. But it won't guarantee incidents of harassment will never occur again. Best thing you can do if you become a target of profiling is be cool. . .and make sure at the end of your day you return to the comfort of your home.<br /> Finally, I would think that in their program to combat terrorism the government might realize that photographers (esp. street photogs) can be helpful. After all, when they're looking for a "person of interest" I'd think a nice sharp image of a street scene shot by one of those BIG cameras would be more helpful than those blurry screen shots from a remote building lobby video camera. There are cameras everywhere today. . .from the average tourist with a P&S or cell phone to the street photogs with their BIG lenses. Rather than scaring off photographers, I'd think the government might encourage us to shoot more often and in more places. Then set up a web site where photogs can have the option to upload images that they think might help in an investigation. I'm not a crime specialist so it may not always be obvious to me what constitutes a smoking gun. But if I was freely shooting street activity in an area where an attempted crime or terrorist act took place, somewhere in my images there might be key evidence or clues. Moreover, if a would-be terrorist was engaged in plotting or conducting a terror act in a densely populated area, maybe that person might be deterred somewhat if they found themselves immersed in a sea of clicking shutters. Duh! ; )</p>
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<blockquote>

<p>After all, when they're looking for a "person of interest" I'd think a nice sharp image of a street scene shot by one of those BIG cameras would be more helpful than those blurry screen shots from a remote building lobby video camera. There are cameras everywhere today.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thatis a very good point, Asa. In 2005 we had a series of four bombings in London by radicalised muslims and, the police requested footiage from anyone who had taken pictures within a wide area of the bombings before, or after, the tragic events. Obviously they saw the opportunity to have the public act as surveillance-agents-after-the-fact.<br>

So maybe we can tell the over-enthusiastic policeman that we are, actually, on their side.</p>

 

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<blockquote>

<p>I think it's a good program and necessary since we are at war. Sometimes I wonder if Americans fully understand this. It's not a conventional war by any means. . .but clearly lives are at stake. . .and blood has already been shed on American soil. The garage attendants and MMs would not just be looking for photographers. . .but for suspicious activity suggestive of terrorist (i.e., war) activity.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p> I just think a few people look for an excuse to invoke the name Dick Cheney. As a unintentional benefit maybe this program will result in fewer cameras on the street, and less crappy "street "photography" polluting internet photo-forum galleries. If that happens I'd send Dick Cheney a bouquet of flowers.</p>

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