Mamiya 645 1000S versus Super

Hello,

 

As a amateur photographer about to jump into medium format world I

allow myself to request your opinion relatively to the acquisition of

a mamiya 645.

 

Lots of "experts" are speaking about the mamiya 645 as being one of

the best medium format camera recommended to begin (I have only myself

bad experiences of russian copies!), but which trade off to make

between age of models and price ?

 

I am actually negociating on ebay between two models : an 1000S and a

mamiya super and I have some doubts concerning the best choice to do :

 

-Mamiya 645 1000S with 110mm / 2.8 :

<a

href="http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7614328123&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1">link</a>

 

-Mamiya 645 super with 80mm / 2.8 :

<a

href="http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7613222605&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1">link</a>

 

Are the optics 80 and 110 very different from sharpness and quality

point of view ? Do I take a risk buying model like the 1000S which is

certainely 20 years old rather than the super or the pro one ?

 

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

Best regards,

 

Patrick VINCENT

The big difference in the models, I think, is the 1000S takes film inserts into a non-removable back, where the Super takes "backs" which you can preload. If you're not doing the kind of shots that require continuous shooting (fashion etc.) the inserts are more than enough, and they also can be pre-loaded and held in their black plastic boxes- at least I found it so. I never shot with the 110, but the C lens seem to be pretty good- I never had a complaint. I have the 45 2.8, 80 2.8 and 150 3.5. I love em.

In my opinion the optics are the same. If the price is close I would buy the super. Mostly because of the interchangable backs.

 

I owned a 1000s for many years. I found it to be a fine camera, but they are getting old. The 645's are not built as well as the RB series. Age should be considered in your decision.

 

These are also one of the few medium format cameras that I would recommend having a prism on. Vertical shots are not very practical with a waist level finder.

Both camera bodies will make you happy. The Super is a bit more plasticky, but has interchangeable backs (which are pretty expensive compared to, i.e., RZ/RB backs). As a beginner you probably won't need this (even I rarely have different backs with unfinished rolls at the same time). And keep in mind that the accessories (finders, prism, motor grips etc) are not interchangeable between the Super and the older (M645, 1000s, M645J) bodies, and that the Super accessories are much more expensive on the used market. Still I would go for the Super if the price is right (and your link shows a very acceptable price).

 

I have bought and sold lots of older M645 bodies. Their build quality is very high and I would not worry about the 1000s being a few years older than the Super.

 

The 80mm f/2.8 is the usual normal lens, it's very sharp and contrasty and leaves nothing to be desired. But I dislike normal lenses, and I prefer the fast f/1.9 version of the 80mm -- it has beautiful rendering of out-of-focus areas and provides a brighter viewfinder. On the other hand, the 110mm f/2.8 is one of my favorites of the M645 lens line-up. It's the "longest" lens I am comfortable with hand-holding, it's very sharp and has also very nice bokeh. A great portrait lens, not too common, but very versatile and optically excellent.

I've owned both in the past and found the Super to be very flimsy construction and always had a lot of problems with it, probably due to it's more complex construction with a lot more parts and electronics. The 1000s is very solid and extremely rugged with a much simpler construction. I would go with the 1000s if I had to buy one again.

The biggest advantage for getting the Super is the interchangeable backs, as has already been mentioned. All models prior to the 645 Super lack interchangeable backs but are reported to be extremely tough and reliable. I own a 645 Super and have had numerous problems with the shutter and mirror freezing up despite one repair already. Other experiences I heave heard about lead me to believe the Super is the dog in Mamiya's production history.

 

If interchangeable backs is something you want I would recommend a 645 Pro or Pro Tl body. After numerous experiences with my Super crapping out and prematurely ending a day of shooting, I bought a Pro as a second body (now my primary camera). It has performed flawlessly and IMO is better made.

Just for the sake of contrast - I've had a Super for about 2 years now and it's been flawless. Despite the plastic shell it feels pretty solid. I've taken it to Antigua, Hawaii, CA, and numerous other places and it's always been reliable. Though I have read that using the power winder can lead to premature wear on the film transport gears.

 

I've got 2 backs (one for 220, one for 120), the 35mm, 80mm and 80mm Macro lenses, power drive, AE prism... It's a great camera and I especially love the 35mm lens.

Well, the good thing about the 1000s is that it is very handy and very robust. It is really

solid! And the AE prism on it is fitting perfectly without hanging in the air above the film

holder. That is why chose it:

 

http://studio135.net/method/

If you are not using different films at a time 1000s in good condition is a fantastic machine. It has everything one would like to have in a MF camera.

Having had a M645 in 1977 and a M645 1000s in 1983, I just bought a M645 1000s body last week. I rarely swap magazines when I use my Hasselblad so I decided against the Super. The 1000s has proved to be a very reiable camera over the years. Most of the problems that I'm aware of deal with metering prisms rather than the M645 1000s body.

 

I plan on using the 1000s with just a couple of lenses; it will be used mostly with the 35mm lens. The Hasselbald SWC and 40mm lenses are just too expensive.