zz_algern0n Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 i am considering the move to large format. i'm a perfectionist for resolution and contrast so optics are very important to me (i pretty much can't live without zeiss). i started as a 35mm shooter and took a brief jump to 645. i love my 645 camera but the system is too expensive for such a small format. i do pretty much all studio work. i'm thinking about getting an old hasselblad for handholdable situation, but i'd like to take a look at 4x5 and see if it's feasible for me. can someone help me with how to start looking, i.e. what's a good camera/setup for a good price (remember my demand on optic quality), how to best get into it for the best price, and whether the $1.50 a sheet processing is worth it, and any other advice. i think i feel comfortable with a normal, medium-wide, and macro/portrait-style lens combination to start. ill probably start out with the hasselblad as a main camera and experiment around with the 4x5 until i feel comfortable enough to use it as my main unit. do large formats have through the lens metering (spot?), do they work like giant slrs? hope this question's ok and hope people can help with their wisdom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 let me note, larger weight isn't a big deal, but lower price is very important without sacrificing optic quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_frank Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 www.largeformatphotography.info pretty much sums it all up. nothing anyone could post here would tell you any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedharris Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Joshua, You need to start by doing some basic reading. A good place to start online is: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ also: www.viewcamera.com and download the getting started article there. There are also a couple of good books; one by Leslie Strobel and one by Steve Simmons. Get one at your library and read it. Until you do a bit more reading the answers to your questions might be meaningless. Large Format cameras are NOT giant SLR�s. They are as far from it as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 i know there's a lot of reading in order but i feel better reading alongside while i play. i don't mind investing in a module that i could turn around and sell if i don't like it so i was hoping for some tips in general about the switch i.e. what it was like for others and as well a reasonably priced system thgat i could cut my teeth on. i did a lot of and a lot of thinking and reading before going to 645 but it's only been a few months and i'm ready to move up because the system i chose wasn't right for a # of reasons. i learned volumes more in the 3 months or so i've owned medium format than the year it took me to choose one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennifer_waak Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Josh, You really need to do some reading. The type of camera that will be best for you is completely dependent upon what style of shooting you want to do. All cameras are a trade-off of weight, movements, stability, and price. Lenses are entirely independent from cameras, for all practical purposes you can put any lens on any camera (if the bellows will allow for it to focus). If you are looking at hand-held, Crown Graphic is a good place to start, those can probably be found for a few hundred dollars (used only). They will come with a lens (probably), but it will probably be single-coated and not the absolute best. A top of the line lens will set you back over $1000. Then, after the camera and a lens you will need a darkcloth, film holders of some sort, and a light meter to determine exposure. There really is no practical way for us to help you out until you understand more of the basics and can tell us what you intend to shoot. Please, read the pages others have recommended and browse the forum. -Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 If you're worrying about $1.50/sheet for processing, and "can't live without Zeiss" you've got your head.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neal_shields Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 "Large format cameras are not giant SLRs" Not anymore anyway, but just today I was reading about Strand and one of his favorite cameras was a Graflex "Home Portrait" 5X7 and the 4x5 Super Ds go for big bucks on you know who. Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene m Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Yeah. A giant SLR. The mirror slap is awful on a 4x5 but you should <i>feel</i> it on an 8x10. Wow !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 i guess i phrased it wrong, by SLR i meant i can view through the lens rather than like a tlr or a rangefinder. i didn't intend to carry it around and snap shots passersby on a subway. i said i'd like to use it for studio and weight is not a big issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedharris Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 One of the reasons we are all saying read a little is you aren�t even asking the right questions yet. Without doing a bit of reading our answer to you would approach being meaningless. Nothing is automated in the LF world. You say you like Zeiss glass, they don�t make LF lenses (they used to but no more). You keep stressing price. I note from your posted pictures that you shoot or used to shoot with a K1000. A minimum LF investment for a basic used monorail, a 150mm to 210mm modern lens, a spot or incident light meter, film holders, dark cloth, focusing loupe, sturdy tripod, some lighting, etc� will set you back at least 600-700 and likely more. If you really mean what you say about optical quality expect to pay upwards of $1000 per lens. On the other hand you might not need that sort of overkill. This is very different from the 35mm and MF world. Each �piece� of the system is separate. Go read a little and then come back and we both can and will be a lot more help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvp Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Yes, you do get to view through the lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 i understand zeiss doesn't make large format lenses but i was looking for comparable recommendations with rodenstock & schneider as well as a good-entry level studio system that'll give me time to learn. it's pretty discouraging to have to go back to the drawing board after doing so much research into medium format. i currently shoot contax 645 and aaton super16 motion. all my lenses on both formats are zeiss and all cost upwards of $1000. i was just hoping for some simple recommendations or pushes in the right direction based on the info i gave. i love the contax system, but the $2500 is too expensive for me at the moment. i'm going to downgrade to a $500 hasselblad and let the lenses do the work. i was hoping to do a similar thing with large format Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennifer_waak Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Josh, in something like 2 hours you can read the LF site people have referenced above and be in a much better idea of what you want and questions to ask. There are literally probably over 100 cameras to choose from and more lenses. You have to narrow things down for us. At least field vs. monorail will help. Seriously, you have to do some homework first. We're not saying 3 months of reading, but a few hours will go a long way. The Schneider 110 XL is absolutely one of the best lenses that exist. A great intro camera is the Arca-Swiss Discovery. You can get them new for $1200 from Badger. -Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z_z1 Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Go buy a Cambo 4x5 monorail, Schneider APO 210, 10 holders, a dark cloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triblett_lungre_thurd Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 okay, lemme get this straight josh, yer trading 645 for 66? i don't get it, me p.s. lots and lots of reading josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_hawley Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Josh, I just got into LF for about $700. But that's for '50s vintage camera and lenses. I still need to pick up a 4x5 enlarger and a better tripod but that will have to wait until next year. I did about 3 months of research before I felt comfortable enough to start seriously looking at kits. If you look back in this forum over the last month, you will see several questions I asked while I was in the buying process. The LF community here is as helpful as it gets, but even a newbie like me can say you need to read up as suggested. You might start with Ansel Adams' "The Camera" which gives an excellent and objective view of all three formats. It explains the basic construction of each common type of camera. After you read it, you will better understand what a monorail or field camera can do and not do. It also goes into detail on accessories such as exposure meters and tripods, stuff you will need and need to make informed choices on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 lemme get this straight josh, yer trading 645 for 66? i don't get it, what's not to get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 ok i will look at the camera, i couldnt' find much in the way of differences between field & monorail on the largeformat.info. i'm sure the sachtler 3-stage carbon fiber tripod for my s16 rig will more than suffice. i'm also aware of meters, but the real trick is companies make a cinema and still version so im the sucker that has to pay twice the price to own both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triblett_lungre_thurd Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 yer gonna get a 6x6, then crop it back to 645? handholding a hassy josh, that's what i don't get. here's my advice... skip the hassy, read lots(metering, dof, moves), buy an 8x10 studio cam, then buy some mondo-powerful studio strobes. and finally, get a mf cam that you can handhold easily(the diffs in optical quality won't be noticeable when yer talking about used hassy prices). 'Using the View Camera' by steve simmons is a great place to start... me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennifer_waak Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Check out <A HREF="http://www.butzi.net/articles/lfchoose.htm">this article</A> on Butzi.net for even a more basic primer and brings up things like yaw-free for studio work. As for the light meter, I the Sekonic high-end meters, such as the L-608 do have cine shutter speeds. Knowing next to nothing about cine I'm not quite sure if that is what you need, but the point is that there may be options.<P>-Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 i never said a thing about recropping, but the bigger issue is the $2000 cost savings of a 500c/m body over a contax 645. i only need a few lenses (not to mention the much huger and often cheaper array of hasselblad lenses available) so the difference in price is quite substantial to the whole outfit. i don't have any shop locally that i can test this stuff out on so this is all theoretical based on used prices i see and internet info. im going to buy a used one and give it a test run first to make sure it's what i want to do. the hasselblad is for situations where i don't have time to set up a view camera, such as small setups, portraits, grabs from setups on location, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_galli4 Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Joshua, I've found LF is rewarding for personal work where I'm striving for excellence probably for no one else but me. Production work is for Hasselblads and the like. Erik said "Go buy a Cambo 4x5 monorail, Schneider APO 210, 10 holders, a dark cloth." and that's good advice. That combination will absolutely do anything with the possible drawback that it is heavy. If LF isn't for you you'll be able to sell and get your $ back. If it is you can upgrade from there. I've got one I'm selling. Contact me offline if you're interested. jg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 i would like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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