M9 - why is there a motor ?

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by didier, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. I had the opportunity some time ago to shoot a few pics with the M9 (at a dealer's).
    My first move towards Leica in a digital world...
    I liked the moment, apart from one thing : it is much louder than my film Ms.
    (battery dependency is not mentioned here)


    Why did they put a motor in the thing ? Couldn't they have gone on with an advance lever ? Or?

    What do you think ?


    Didier
     
  2. I suppose they could have used a manual lever to cock the shutter - maybe that will be an "a la carte" item some day...
     
  3. Probably because Epson/Voigtlander got so much crap for having a manual advance on the digital RD1.
     
  4. And I suppose because all the DSLRs use motors to cycle the shutter. I haven't handled an M-9, but the nice thing about the M winders for film cameras is they don't advance the film (and make noise) until you release the shutter.
     
  5. The M9 has a setting where it won't wind until you release the shutter (discreet mode). I set mine that way so I can muffle the camera before it winds if necessary.
    That said, I love the manual wind on the RD1.
     
  6. Why not? The motor-advance was integrated without any increase in the size of the body - and the camera needs a battery for the sensor anyway.
    Although not as discrete as that of a film-M, the M8/9 shutter (even with the motor) is quiet enough.
     
  7. Although I don't mind the motor advance in either normal or discreet mode, I don't think the M8 can be described as quiet. Sounds like a pistol shot compared with an M6 or most of my Canon dSLRs
     
  8. Have you actually heard a pistol shot? Think "180 decibels plus". Without protection, you hear nothing else for 15 seconds.
     
  9. If further minaturization of the electronics technology and it's subsequent costs were feasible, I would welcome the addition of an optional manual setting. (Motor off) Wishfully utilizing a simple M3/MP wind lever.
    Not only for the discrete issue, but also out of a technical concern for the always (tightly) wound shutter.
    This may be a controversial view in light of the claimed shutter cycle-life. But, it doesn't change the fact that the current cameras always get their shutter's stored fully charged; which logically, shortens in some way the cycle count...
    Hint: If storing your Leica M8, M8.2 or M9 for an extended period of time; fire off your your shutter in discreet mode. Then while still holding down the shutter release, pop out the battery.
     
  10. "Probably because Epson/Voigtlander got so much crap for having a manual advance on the digital RD1."
    You know, I remember people saying that they liked the manual shutter cocking because it gave a certain rhythm to the photography (or something like that). Maybe Leica just thought it was too corny for a $7000 camera.
     
  11. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    the nice thing about the M winders for film cameras is they don't advance the film (and make noise) until you release the shutter.​
    Well that's a good thing. Advancing the film before the shutter is released is a big waste of film.
     
  12. Oh dear, Edward. Of course what I mean is that the M8 is loud, much louder than many of my other cameras, even those with mirrors. I keep forgetting that other people may interpret what I say literally!
     
  13. This may be a controversial view in light of the claimed shutter cycle-life. But, it doesn't change the fact that the current cameras always get their shutter's stored fully charged; which logically, shortens in some way the cycle count...​
    I don't have any insider knowledge on the shutter's design, but what you say is not necessarily true. You are assuming that the shutter is not under any tension after released. It could very well have tension on it at it's rest state, cocked and uncocked. In fact, it most likely does have tension in both states.
     
  14. Tim, that's why I mentioned the word "controversial"
    Of course they all (including leaf shutters) have tension at "rest".
    But to my point: When adjusting horizontal or vertical traveling shutters, just an incremental click or two dramatically alters the curtain tensions. But when a camera is wound, those tensions skyrocket !
    I've stated the difference before; tight mainsprings show their fatigue when they've been extracted and then compared with the new replacement.
    Sherry Kräuter's response to a query on this subject was:

    "Camera should always be put away uncocked. All the mechanisms are at maximum tension cocked. It is simple logic."
    I also concur...
     
  15. Because..
    a motor plus a manual mechanism just wouldn't fit in
    this would cost a lot more to produce with little added usefulness
    the non-Leica shutter was designed for electro-motor actuation in the first place, etc. pp.
    Obvious, really, isn't it?
     
  16. "If further minaturization of the electronics technology and it's subsequent costs were feasible"​
    PC B, it really doesn't matter that it's a vertical traveling metal shutter block employed in the M8,8.2 or 9.
    If anything it makes it easier to design a new manual "charge" lever:
    1. It only takes a short 8mm throw to charge these new shutters.
    2. No "film" take-up spool space cavity or the gearing to drive the spool.
    3. No lower or upper actuation for rewind reset.
    4. No barrel roll mechanism/gearing to charge the long throw horizontal shutter types.
    5. No mechanical counter or multi exposure mechanism.
    6. This is a big one; no "longevity precision" with high torque reenforcement is needed to support the above systems.
    The new "charge" lever, simply needs to have an 8mm throw at the end of it's action, along with an added mechanical multi advance prevention device. (Low torque & tiny)
    PC B Stated "Obvious, really, isn't it?" Well I state an emphatic, NO it isn't !
     
  17. Only 8mm of throw to cock the shutter? That really surprises me because the motor cocking sure takes a long time if it only needs to move something 3/8".
     

Share This Page

1111