M8 - first day

Superficial impressions:<br>Doesnt sounds like a Leica loud, and wind-y.

Off/S/C button is too easy to bump. Shutter speed wheel feels plasticky and

sounds cheap when turning. I cant tell which framelines are which anymore. My

favorite lens (35mm pre-ashp Lux) doesnt mount. My screwmount lenses will be

hard to 6-bit code because the adaptor has a cut-out where the sensor would

read. I dont want too shoot too many keepers since I've been led to understand

that we really need the filters and coding to get the most out of the

camera.<br>Otherwise I like it. I'll learn to live or work around. I only

wonder how much of the rangefinder advantage(over SLR) we lose with the

M8.<br>Let's see how I feel about the camera as I get to know it better...

Just bought a 400 D/Kiss, and you should see the results at 1600 ISO

So just put it on the shelf until you're sure its the "perfect" Leica, get a D200 and go shoot.

Wow, I've been on this forum since the late 90s. Didnt expect this much sarcasm or those kind of feedbacks. Makes me want to go back to the Rangefinder forum.

Russell, Pls continue to post further experiences with this camera. I have had all my lenses

converted to 6-bit but am now wavering due to the technical faults so can use more info. I

wish I can just rent one for a week but that is not possible where I am. Thanks.

You can't expect to regard a camera highly at your first attempt with a different format. We used to sell new Mercedes and occasionally a customer would come in saying they couldn't get used to it after their Rover, or Volvo. Very, very, rarley did they go back to their old make.

May I make a suggestion? Ok thanks. Forget everything you've read about the M8. Chill. Go out and take some pictures. Be amazed.

 

The magenta thing hardly ever happens and you pretty much know when it's going to anyway.

 

In my experience it makes NO DIFFERENCE if your lenses are 6 bit coded or not. Gasp. I have noticed precisely ZERO problems with any of my (many) screw mount and uncoded lenses.

 

The way the M8 renders black and white is stunning. I'm pretty sure it's better than anything I got on B&W film, possibly even as good as 6x6 mono AND with a lot less effort.

 

The framelines come to you within a few days.

 

OK it's a shame your 35mm Lux won't mount - that does suck. A lot.

 

And of course I have a few peeves of my own.

1. My Kingdom for an ISO dial.

2. The flush windows and LCD are always getting smeary. (What was wrong with the recessed windows like on my M4-2 etc?!?!?!?!?

3. Self timer on the on off dial? WHY?!? Who needs it? Hide it in a menu or something for goodness sakes!

4. Should be easier to switch to mono.

I am all for the success of digital range finders. There are way nicer DSLRs in the market (better than D-Kiss and 200D).

 

Yeah, just use it to make photos.

>The way the M8 renders black and white is stunning. I'm pretty sure it's better than

anything I got on B&W film, possibly even as good as 6x6 mono AND with a lot less effort.

 

I am strictly a B/W shooter and have read the IR problem is a benefit to B/W because it

extends the total range. Do you think this is true based on your experience?

Hiya,

 

From your description, it sounds to me like you bought the camera blind, it sounds like you had never even handled one before, which if that is true I find quite amazing that you would shell out several thousand wongas on a camera you had never even tried..

 

cheers Steve.

Raymond - The tonal range is superb but I couldn't say whether it's due to the IR or not. Perhaps when the IR cut filters arrive I'll see if there is any difference with and without them. If you are a B&W shooter (as I am, except when the family insist of colour[!]) you will love the M8. You can control the contrast in a menu to 5 different levels too. It's all so much easier than it was with brewing your own B&W film but you still keep the control. Of course you really need a grey ink capable printer (I use HP) to reproduce the tones on paper.

Sample<div></div>

"I am strictly a B/W shooter and have read the IR problem is a benefit to B/W because it extends the total range."

 

Raymond, The two cameras that I have used (Epson R-D1s and Nikon D70: both suffer from inadequate IR cut filters) benefit with an addition of IR cut filter to improve sharpness.

 

Some folks confuse fuzziness with extended "tonal range" (nowadays, this term "tonal range" has a very loose meaning). They are either clueless about "tonal range" and/or taking comfort in the IR (focus) related fuzziness.

Russell, you have to expect a dose of sarcasm whenever you post a reference to the M8 here, it's just the way things are.

 

Sorry to hear about the Summilux, I've had no problems all all with any of the Leica or Voigtlander lenses I've thwown at mine - doesn't help you I know.

 

It's a great camera to use. The only proble I've encountered in the weeks I've had mine is the magenta issue - like many people I've currently waiting for my filters to arrive.

 

Here are a few snaps from the weekend - colour and black and white.

 

http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/sunsworth/M8/London+Feb+2007/

THe IR filters are a must for accurate color. The 6-bit coding is a useful option with wide-angle lenses where the edges loose some magenta and shift cyan as a result of the IR filter. But this could also be done by software in post. For normal to long lenses the 6 bit coding won't make much difference.

Vivek, Yes I have heard that perspective as well so am still on the fence. Spending $5000

on a camera is one thing but what really hurts is deciding what to do with existing film

bodies.

"Russell, you have to expect a dose of sarcasm whenever you post a reference to the M8 here, it's just the way things are."

 

...followed by a chaser of defensiveness from owners who believe the rest of the world infers their intelligence and reputation from their camera purchase decisions.

 

Russel, maybe here are some legitimate reasons why the sarcasm isn't entirely unexpectable:

 

"Doesnt sounds like a Leica loud, and wind-y. Off/S/C button is too easy to bump. Shutter speed wheel feels plasticky and sounds cheap when turning"

 

Someone who makes a $5000 purchase sight-unseen should expect some sarcasm when he complains about things he could have seen had he examined one for five minutes prior to buying.

 

"I cant tell which framelines are which anymore."

 

Someone with $5000 to spend on a camera should expect some sarcasm when he complains he can't almost instantly commit 3 pairs of framelines to memory.

 

"My favorite lens (35mm pre-ashp Lux) doesnt mount."

 

Ditto item one.

 

"I dont want too shoot too many keepers since I've been led to understand that we really need the filters and coding to get the most out of the camera."

 

Someone should expect sarcasm who needs an explanation as to why they should expect sarcasm after making that statement.

 

"My screwmount lenses will be hard to 6-bit code because the adaptor has a cut-out where the sensor would read."

 

No sarcasm here: the early Leitz adaptors have only three small semicircular cutouts (for the tabs on the back of the rear lenscaps to dismount the adaptor), they do not have the long half-depth area over the coding sensor window. You might want to look for them before the prices skyrocket.

Andy, she looks great without smiling. Just heard one portrait photographer say that smiles ruin portraits (or perhaps turn them into snapshots). Steve, I like the b&w M8 photos you posted, especially the night scenes and "Tea" (L1001137). Question for both of you is: Do see much difference between shooting in color and then converting to b&w in PS, or setting the M8 for monochrome photos to begin with? To answer, I suppose you'd have to take a series of photos both ways and then compare them.

Hi Larry, I've only shot RAW so far and have no plans to change that, so I can't answer your question about the comparison I'm afraid. The conversions were done using the b&w adjustment layer in CS3. Normally I use the Alien Skin Aperture plug-in for conversions, but as I use a MacBook and there isn't an Mac Intel version of that available yet I haven't been able to use the plug-in. I'll probably have another play with the files at the weekend when I have access to my XP desktop which does have the plug-in installed.

I'm with barry Fisher on this one, just sit on a shelf and wait for the perfect digital Leica. Isn't that funny?

Andy, that's a nice shot, but I don't think it's a great example of excellent black and white. Like many of the M8 B&W shots I've seen posted here and elsewhere, the contrast is pretty low with most of the histogram clumped around the darks resulting in very little separation between the subject and the background. If the increased IR sensitivity of the M8 plays a roll, wouldn't you expect more separation between the skin tones and the background? Lighter skin tones is one of the things I've come to expect from films like Delta 400 that have greater sensitivity to IR.

<I>...and have read the IR problem is a benefit to B/W because it extends the total range. Do

you think this is true based on your experience?</I><P>

 

No!!!<P>

 

What's happening, is IR energy which you cannot see, produces visible tones that are just not

there. It isn't an extended tonal range. If you're not all that fussy with your B&W, maybe

that's OK seeing things in your image that really aren't there in real life. To me, those are

rendition errors or artifacts.

I also think a lot of the M8's IR contamination in colour shots goes underreported because it isn't as severe as when a black object appears shockingly purple. There's certainly a gradient of acceptability both in terms of the photographer and viewer. Some shifts are going to scream "no way" and others will skate by under the radar.

Just go shoot with the camera, and decide for yourself if and when these items matter to you. I find the color from the camera is typically excellent, and have decided I don't much care about the filters (at least for now). I'll get my lenses coded over time, but again, am happy with the results from uncoded lenses, and won't hesitate to use them.

 

On your 35 Lux, that lens should work just fine. I'd mess around with mounting it a bit more, or have your dealer take a look at it. If you get nowhere, consider sending the two in together for adjustment.

 

Clyde Rogers

"What's happening, is IR energy which you cannot see, produces visible tones that are just not there. It isn't an extended tonal range. If you're not all that fussy with your B&W, maybe that's OK seeing things in your image that really aren't there in real life."

 

Actually they are there, you just don't have super IR vision so you can't see them:)