M7 "forgetting" DX coding

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by matt_sachs, May 28, 2002.

  1. Greetings, All:

    <p>

    My M7 also "forgot" it was loaded with Supra 400 recently, though it initially detected it correctly. When partially through a roll, it flashed ASA 100 when turned on several times in a row (this maneuver on the part of the M7 was associated with a "What the ***?" sound-track from yours truly); then it got with the program again and flashed ASA 400. Having shot with Canon EOS bodies for many years now, without this ever having been a concern (indeed, I hadn't considered it even to be a possible problem!) and noting that a recent post concerning Velvia in the M7 also noted a similar problem, I am curious as to how common an occurrence this is proving to be.

    <p>

    Thank you for any light you can shed on this.
    Best,
    Matt
     
  2. Matt. You will never find out how common is this occurrence by
    counting the fraction of people who post they have problems. This is
    simply because it is MUCH MORE LIKELY that people who have a problem
    (and are thus upset) will post than than people who do not have the
    problem (and are satisfied) will post. If someone asked the question
    of how many Canon EOS cameras misread the DX coding you would
    similarly accumulate a series of posts about the same problem. [Just
    because you haven't had the problem with Canon EOS, doesn't mean that
    others gaven't had it.] Conclusions drawn from the responses are
    more likely to generate heat than to shed light on the subject.
     
  3. Eliot's point is well taken. For curiosity, I searched the EOS3
    archives on yahoogroups with "DX," since I have read postings there
    for a long time and didn't recall this being a discussion point, and
    found two independent occurrences out of more than 10,000 posts from
    1999 (the beginning of the archives) onward reporting this problem
    (numbers 4696 and 7250). In both cases, the problem was only with ASA
    200 film. So, that several of the relatively small group of M7 users
    who also read this group have encountered this problem with two
    different films in the short time they've had their cameras may
    already be significant.
     
  4. Elliott , thanks to people like you Leica can get away with shoddy
    quality control and outdated production methods. The only
    reason I read this forum is to find out if other people are having
    the same quality and mechanical problems I have had with
    using Leica equipment over the years, and yes other people are
    also having the same or similar problems. If you take the trouble
    to read other sites and threads, you will find that, compared to
    other non-autofocus 35mm cameras, Leica products don't seem
    to do as well as their reputation suggests. Reading the
    problems and associated cures on this site has enabled me to
    continue to use my Leica gear, instead of selling it all in
    frustration.

    <p>

    Despite associated problems, I still use Leica system for my
    work, where suitable, but this does not mean I have to turn a
    blind eye on all its short comings.

    <p>

    I would like to take this opportunity to thank John Collier for his
    vast knowledge and polite advise. I have benefited a lot from his
    contributions.
     
  5. Elliott , thanks to people like you Leica can get away with shoddy
    quality control and outdated production methods. The only
    reason I read this forum is to find out if other people are having
    the same quality and mechanical problems I have had with
    using Leica equipment over the years, and yes other people are
    also having the same or similar problems. If you take the trouble
    to read other sites and threads, you will find that, compared to
    other non-autofocus 35mm cameras, Leica products don't seem
    to do as well as their reputation suggests. Reading the
    problems and associated cures on this site has enabled me to
    continue to use my Leica gear, instead of selling it all in
    frustration.

    <p>

    Despite associated problems, I still use Leica system for my
    work, where suitable, but this does not mean I have to turn a
    blind eye on all its short comings.

    <p>

    The problems I refer to are accuracy ( or rather lack of) of
    shutters and rangefinding systems.

    <p>

    I would like to take this opportunity to thank John Collier for his
    vast knowledge and polite advise. I have benefited a lot from his
    contributions.
     
  6. Eliot,

    <p>

    Dare i say that may be true for M6 users, but I'm not too sure the
    number of M7 users that regularly visit Leica fora is sufficiently
    high to allow discarding "a few" converging reports of problems...

    <p>

    Let's say we have around 15 M7 users on this forum right now (?). If
    5 report problems, that is a high proportion !
     
  7. Thanks for the heads up. When I get my M7 I will be sure to only
    shoot 100 ASA film :)
     
  8. Dear Leica friend,
    I just had the same problem with my first rolls, I posted recently my
    problem with VELVIA films. Solutions, you turn the rewind button, so
    the cartidge moves lightly in the camera and the contact becomes
    better. Definitive solution (I didn' have the problem yet, for 35
    films), I cleaned carefully with alcohol the camera DX code contacts
    and wipe the film cartridge DX code before usage.
    Best regards from Belgium
    Michel
     
  9. As Leica are well known to not be all that in the electonics
    department, I wonder why they added DX coding in the first place?,
    maybe its the same whizz who decided to add TTL flash metering to the
    M6?
     
  10. Sait. I was responding to the methodology of determining how common
    the occurrence of misreading the DX code is in the M7 based on a
    small number of people using this forum who choose to post their
    experiences. I have no problem with people posting their particular
    experiences (as anecdotes) for the benefit of others who may wish to
    know about potential problems to look out for.

    <p>

    I am aware of Leica's problems with quality assurance, and I don't
    think that they should be under-estimated, but neither should they be
    over-estimated. Indeed, the DX code reading may be a legitimate
    problem, only time will tell. But consider this. What fraction of
    the original number of M6s and M7s will still be useable and fully
    functional in 40 years (assuming there is still film)? 25 years? 15
    years? 5 years? Now substitute Nikon F4s and Canon EOS3s for Leica
    M6s and M7s.
     
  11. I meant to add... Jacques. You make a good point. If five of 15
    regular users of this forum post problems with a particular Leica
    item, it could very well be significant, even though the sample
    number is small. Indeed if two of 15 regular users have problems, I
    might be concerned. But as I have mentioned, people who infrequently
    use the forum or who never before use the forum may be more likely to
    search for others who have had the same problem and to post here,
    while people who are satisfied and have not had the problem are less
    likely to post. That was the only point I was trying to make -
    definitely NOT saying that Leica doesn't have problems with
    QA.
     
  12. This morning I loaded a fresh roll of TMY400 in the M7 I am using,
    turned it off, then back on, and it flashed 25 and gave a shutter
    exposure appropriate to ISO 25. I turned it off and on again twice
    more with the same indications. Finally, it flashed 400. I made
    sure that the canister was seated properly, and that the DX setting
    was correct.
     
  13. gl5

    gl5

    Tony, this exact same thing happend to me with different film (Kodak TCN400 c-41). Has not reocurred since and I've been shooting alot.
     
  14. I use an M7, one of the first in my area. I have yet to see any
    problems with the camera and have put over 100 rolls in it so far.
    (ranging from Velvia to Neopan 1600. DX has read the film each and
    every time accurately and all of the rolls have turned out as
    expected.

    <p>

    I can only assume that if you are having DX related issues, you have
    a faulty canister. (oil/dirt etc.) The DX sensors in a camera work by
    creating an electrical conductive path, the black squares are paint
    that isn't conductive. If your camera is missing the speed, its most
    likely because there is something on the shiny part of the canister
    that is interfering with the electrical path. All you can really do
    is re-adjust the canister or make sure its clean before going in.

    <p>

    --Mark Cohen
     
  15. Don't have an M7 - and there are no problems with the one I DON'T have.
    =8^o

    <p>

    But - this sounds like it could be a mechanical OR an electronic flaw.
    Most DX cameras have swing-open backs - which tend to positively press
    the casette against the DX contacts.

    <p>

    With its bottom-loading, where the casette has to have a loose enough
    fit to slide in and out, I would think there is more possibility that a
    casette in the M7 could shift a bit and lose contact, fully or
    partially, which would 'reset' the DX to the default 100, or to an
    erroneous 25, e.g.

    <p>

    Which, I expect, makes no difference whatsoever to someone whose shots
    are screwed up!
     
  16. You CAN set the ASA/ISO manually on the M7...can't you????
    I've not handled one so I don't know. I always set the film speed on my F5 and F100's so as not to have a mistake.
     
  17. I have had problems with DX coding twice in the past. Both times with
    Nikon cameras (N90s and F100).
    So, now I set the film speed manually on all cameras, including the
    M7. I have never trusted those 5ยข film cartridges.
    Having said that, I may try it with the M7 just to see if it works.
     
  18. Can the film speed be manually set with the M7?

    <p>

    I'm thinking about upgrading my M6 to an M7, but I bulk-load my film. None of my cartridges are DX encoded -- just the plain black plastic cartridges.

    <p>

    Is it possible to bypass these DX/electrical issues by setting film speed manually?
     
  19. Kelso - Yes, the M7 dial can be set to a specific speed, instead of
    "DX". But some users have already complained that the MANUAL film-speed
    dial can ALSO get knocked out of position - by rubbing against clothes,
    etc.

    <p>

    And a little pin-prick diode in the viewfinder blinks constantly and
    perpetually if you are not using DX. I didn't find it overly
    distracting once I got used to it (I don't have a -7 but have tried
    several in stores) because it's tiny, like a decimal point in the
    shutter-speed readout - but some people hate it.
     
  20. I have had the same problem you have described with my M7.
    In DX in was reading my Tri-X as 25 iso film.
    The most simply thing to do is to turn off DX coding and keep on shooting.
    But the thing that makes me worried about the point is that, for the money I've (stupidly!) spent for the M7, I want that it works perfectly! Is it asking too much?!
    A friend of mine, shooting in Burkina for work, had troubles with a 90mm Apo Summicron focusing at infinity (and is camera was right setted!). The reason he was using the summicron was f/2 aperture. When he returned to Italy the answer of assistance was that for solving the problem he had only to stop down the lens.
    In my opinion it's offensive.
    In the other hand it's obvious that every product, expecially made in series, can show some problems sometimes. And it is not a reason to leave it up.
    I consider a great error having bought the M7 because of a simple principle: if something isn't there it could not break up...
    I'll keep on using my beloved M6ttl and I think that I'll soon sell my M7... For buyng an other M6.
    Sorry for my bad english,
    Stefano.
     
  21. Another note.
    Tonight I've sent an email to Leica assistance in Italy.
    With my great suprise this morning they've phoned me and very kindly they have told me that my camera will be replaced with a new one in two weeks.
    Nice suprise and new faith in Leica for me.
    Stefano.
     

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