M4-2 slow speeds out

<p>Before anyone replies 'Sherry' or 'DAG', yes, I already know that is the best answer.</p>

<p>However, This M4-2 shutter failure has me a bit puzzled you see.</p>

<p>The failure: On speeds of 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, just those four, the first curtain opens and then.....nothing. To release the second curtain I have to rotate the shutter dial to either 'B' or up to 1/15. When winding on at any of these 4 offending settings there is not even a hint of the sound of an escapement being tensioned. When the shutter is released at any of these 4 settings there is not even a hint of the usual faint buzzing sound of a mechanical escapement running it's cycle. On other cameras with mechanical timed cloth FP shutters you can hear that sound. Even when the device is gummed up from disuse usually there is *some* indication of it trying to work in fits and starts.</p>

<p>So, has anyone else had this same problem on their M body? Could something just be jamming the geartrain? I'm sorely tempted to remove the top and take a look myself but find little online about correct procedures for such work.</p>

<p>John, No, but I believe there is a different spring or action for the range of shutter speeds you're having trouble with. My personal opinion is I wouldn't risk taking anything apart. My repair shop (I'm sure the others you list would be in the same range), would charge me about $125 plus parts to do the job. Me? I hate having all those pesky screws and springs sitting on my desk after I've put it all back together.</p>

<p>John, IMHO, at the current age of these M4-2 camera bodies, you can have this symptom occur when debris has lodged into the "V" groove of one of the gears in the escapement. (Depends on where in the gear cycle the debris is, as to which speed still works) This debris can either be a grain of sand or a tape like material going brittle & curving up to obstruct a protruding gear, etc.<br>

(Tape shields the RF light from bleeding into the film gate)</p>

<p>Also: To gain access to the slow speed escapement, you'll have to do more than just remove the top cover. The gear mechanism <strong>hides</strong> behind the RF assembly.</p><div></div>

<p>Thanks Michael and Gus.<br>

Michael, I tend to agree. My general rule is not to take apart any camera that's worth over $50 and that definitely rules out the Leica. I would expect that either Sherry or DAG would charge a flat rate for a full CLA though, about $250. I don't blame them, if they just fix the immediate problem and then 3 months later something else quits they still get blamed for it, you know, that "you just worked on my camera and now it's broke again" stuff. Most repairmen I know will only do a complete job so that they can warranty the camera for 6 months.</p>

<p>Gus, thanks for the picture and that's what I figured. I would not want to mess with the RF assembly or I might wind up with a much greater repair expense.<br>

The other option is to just use it for a while as the other speeds look about right and my negs don't show any problems with tapering or uneven slit width. Perhaps what ever fell into the gears will fall back out and the little beauty will fix itself.</p>

<p>John, I don't know where you live, but I have Advanced Camera Repair in Portland, Oregon do my work. They are very affordable, and fearless and experienced with all my high end gear. I hate to recommend them because they may take longer to return my stuff, or the price will go up<g>. If you explain the problem when asking for a quote on their website, they will get an estimate back to you within about 48 hours. Usually they charge me less than what they quote. For this type of thing, it would usually work out to about $125-150, with a full CLA.</p>

<p>John, eight months ago I paid $295 to one of the people you name in your first post for a full job on an M3. If you do not use the four slowest speeds much, my guess is that just carrying on will not do any damage.</p>

<p>Michael, I live in Olympia, just 100 or so miles north of Portland! I'll check out Advanced Camera Repair, thanks.<br>

Mukul, I'm not surprised at that price at all, seems in line with what I've seen.</p>

<p>Now, as Paul Harvey used to say, 'here is the rest of the story'. Last light I shook the camera and slapped it into the palm of my hand a couple of times and lo and behold the 1/8 worked! I then tried the other speeds and they worked also. However, holding my ear close to the top of the camera revealed some unevenness in the escapement sound. It was not a nice clean, consistent buzz, but sounded like it was struggling a bit to complete its cycle. So I think a look see by a trained tech may still be in order.</p>

<p>Again, thanks to all who have contributed information and advise.</p>

<p>John, I do not recall any slow-speed escapement, in any camera, which gave "a nice clean, consistent buzz". Maybe you are not in trouble and should wait a while before taking it in for service. It might be an idea to "exercise" all the slow speeds about a dozen times each before loading the camera. Slapping an M Leica into the palm of a hand can knock the range-finder out of alignment.</p>

<p>The Rf survived fine Mukul, I didn't really slap it down too hard. What ever the force, it must have knocked loose what was jamming the escapement gears. This is my first Leica M, well for a short time I had an M2 but the RF mirror was desilvering and when I called Sherry Krauter and told her the serial number she said to get a refund if I could so I sent it back to the seller. The RF in this M4-2 is bright, crisp and accurate so I'm happy. I have a 35 and a 21, both Voigtlanders and by the negs so far they are fine lenses. Too warm to set up the darkroom in out little bathroom, have to wait for cool weather to start printing.</p>