M3 to M6TTL (0.85) or MP(0.85)

I have an M3 and 35mmRF 2.0 Summicron, 50mmDR Summicron, 90 f2 Suumicron and

135mmRF 2.8 lenses. I want an M with a built in meter after all these years to

accompany my M3. I am used to the M3 finder but find the price difference

between a new MP and used M6TTL attractive. I would like the shutter speed

dials to rotate in the same direction for both the M3 and whatever M I decide

on. I also plan on using the RF lenses which should work according to Leitz. I

don't plan on anything wider than 35mm and usually use 90mm for the M3.

Any comments on suggestions appreciated. thanks-Dick

I would opt for an M6 classic (the shutter speed dial moves in the same direction as your M3). With some patience, you should be able to locate one with a .85 finder - there is very little practical difference between an M6 classic and a new MP.

You may want to opt for a standard .72 finder. You can get a 1.25x adapter later if you decide you still want the tighter .85 mag.

All of your lenses will work fine regardless of your decision.

Richard,

I have a classic M6 with the .85 finder that I want to sell. As Bill wrote it will match up to your M3 dial rotation just as you want.

I bought it thinking I'd prefer it to my standard finder. After using the two cameras side by side I find I like the .72 finder better. Maybe because I'm used to it - I'm not sure.

Anyway I'm selling the .85 - if you are interested in my camera let me know. Its in nice shape and functions perfectly.

People who own an M6 say you do not need an MP and that there's little difference; people with an MP tell you the differences, while perhaps subtle, are worth it (especially if you worry where and what the used M6 has been through).

The differences have been discussed here and elsewhere (Erwin Puts) quite extensively (most obvious the TTL aspect).

If your budget is tight get the M6 and you'll be happy. If you have the luxury that the extra dough is not such a big deal for you then get the MP and it will not be money wasted.

MP vs. M6 classic (all discussed here before):

1. The MP has a brass topcover - The M6 top is a zinc alloy

2. The MP has the M2/3 style RW knob and frame-line preview selector - The M6 has the M4/7 style controls

3. The MP advance lever is the M3/2 style - The M6 has the M4/7 style

4. The black MP is black paint (designed to rub-off) - The M6 is black chrome

5. The M6 has the now famous red dot (in fact this is where it started) - The MP has a screw in its place (as prior M3/2/4)

6. Different body coverings (both a 'bit on the cheep side)

7. The MP has a slightly more sensitive meter (it may gain you about a stop in low lighting) with three diodes - two red arrows on either side with a dot in the center. The M6 has two diodes (both light up with proper reading - no center dot).

8. The MP RF condenser lens (helps prevent RF patch white-out) has been replaced in the finder - removed prior halfway into the M4-2 production.

9. Cheesy new MP eyepiece design, which conveniently invites dust into the rangefinder. This (IMHO) almost completely balances against any of the "upgrades."

That's about it...<div></div>

9. Cheesy new MP eyepiece design, which conveniently invites dust into the

rangefinder. This (IMHO) almost completely balances against any of the

"upgrades."

From what I've read this was fixed a while ago and only occured in the earlier serial numbers. If Richard is looking to get a new one it's a non-issue.

Richard,

I recently added an MP 0.72 to my M3. It was by chance of a good deal that I decided on

the MP, so I wouldn't over-encourage you one way or the other.

I've previously owned an M3/M6 pair and they are different cameras, albeit only slightly.

The MP feels and handles like the M3 - no re-adjustment whatsoever.

The TTL meterering would be handy on occasion, so that's in it's favour.

I prefer the MP re-wind and absolutely rely on those two little dots turning. There is

nothing more important than knowing the film is advancing.

The MP wind-on is joy in its simplicity - 'function determines form'. It's elegant and

positive. No more is needed. Every time you stroke the M6, you'll miss that M3 lever.

The 0.72 is a big change from the 0.91 of the M3 which is almost telephoto in

comparison. I wanted to accomodate a 35mm and the 0.72 is brilliant for that. The

downside was that I couldn't let my M3 go because the viewfinder is the best Leica made

IMO for 50mm/+ lenses.

I've just replaced a 50 Summicron ASPH with a new Summilux and think the best home for

this new lens is on the M3 for the precise focussing at widest aperture.

Are you keeping the M3 ? I think it's value far outweighs its sale ticket.

I bought my MP new at a big discount from a major store and highly recommend you to

find any Leica in a nearly new condition. All top cameras are designed for five times as

many million shots I will take, so if it's good, it'll be a better buy than new if you're on a

budget. However, do all you can to cut your exposure on ePay.

Hope this helps.

Gary

I was wondering if its possible to mod a m6 classic to a 0,58 finder?

I would like to have a 0,58 with the old style shutter dial :)

Just a little note, I own a black chrome MP and they are still available through the a la carte program. Also the early M6 had a brass top.

I've used Leicas profesionally for thirty eight years and still keep and shoot 5 M bodies. I have the M2, 3, 6, and 2 new MP's. The differences in use between any are strictly a matter or preference and are mainly academic. The argument that brass is better than zinc or this M is better than that M or my lens is better than yours is getting boring. Unfortunately there's more fantasy than fact surrounding Leica and Leitz lenses. Any of the M's will take equally as fine an image and last for a lifetime under the kind of use most forum members will give it. I've shot tens of thousands of rolls through bodies that I've owned and never had a mechanical issue other than a self timer spring breaking in a 1955 M3.

http://www.photo.net/photos/X-Ray

Thanks for all the responses.

In the early 1970's I worked for the Wisconsin State Journal as a photographer. Everyone used Nikon F's including me. I was able to borrow and use M3's and M2's that were not in use. When I left to pursue my real career as a Nuclear Engineer after Graduate School, I couldn't even afford to pay $200 for an M2+lens that was offered to me. About 15 years ago I decided to get a M3 outfit and found a Mint body # greater than 1M and the listed lenses in Mint condition. With my Nikon, it has served me well. As an engineer, I really value design and manufacturing.

I certainly like the MP but the high price in relation to a used M6 and the comments returned have made my decision. A Mint M6TTL 0.85 is for me.

Again thnaks to all that Posted.-Dick

"From what I've read this was fixed a while ago and only occurred in the earlier serial numbers."

Irregardless of what you have read, the issue (even when they are sealed) is an inferior eyepiece design. BTW, my MP #3001xxx was not sealed at the factory.

"Also the early M6 had a brass top."

no, No, NO! Very late M4-P cameras were zinc in preparation for the M6. All standard production M6 classic cameras had a zinc topcover.

Only the very late M6TTL production cameras were brass in preparation for the M7.

It really doesn't matter whether your top plate is brass, zinc or plastic or if the eye piece is sealed better than the M6. None of this matters if you really want to make photographs. It only matters if you sit around worrying whether you camera is better than someone elses. Stop and think about how silly these statements sound. If you're reallty interested in making excellent images dont's worry about these things. Buy a camera and make pictures and spend your time improving your images not worrying about silly things like this. Any Leica M will do the work if you're up to the task.

http://www.photo.net/photos/X-Ray

Don, you're a really great and knowledgable phototographer.

What is t that makes you respond in this way with such negative energy ?

Richard asked a question on a discussion forum and all these good people are having a

chat. No different from being in a pub, methinks. They don't want to have the obvious

repeated to them.

Tell them it doesn't make a tiny difference which one they buy, but not make 'em feel

stupid for debating whether a worn eyelet is better than an unused one. We all pick useful

snippets and come back for more.

You're too good to waste and don't take this badly. It isn't intended that way at all.

Gary :-)

Gary:

Too frequently these questions are answered with trivia that makes little to no difference but is presented in a way to be a decision maker with terms like "inferior" or "sucks". My point is buy a camera that fits your price and suits your needs without worrying about the seal on the eye piece, the material in the top plate, whether it's made in Wetzlar or Canada and etc. These answers only serve to confuse people and do not help in making a sound decision. In forty years i have never met a true professional that woried about any of these issues. Why, they really make little to no difference. What do we worry about, delivering the best possible photographs possible, making the editor or AD happy, the art of our photography and getting called for another assignment. As long as the camera keeps working and delivers the goods we don't worry about the top plate and seals. Even as much as I've shot I still can'nt wear out a Leica, not even my M6. I don't think anyone on this forum has exceeded the capabilities of any Leica M. I know that I haven't and probably never will.

I don't want to sound negative but these debates over trivia get silly after a while. Let's comment on things that have a real meaning to aid in a sound decision. How durable is the camera, how many rolls over how many years, any repairs, any RF alignment issues, what happened when you dropped it from a ten foot ladder, how long and how expensive were the repairs and etc.

http://www.photo.net/photos/X-Ray

"These answers only serve to confuse people and do not help in making a sound decision."

I respectfully disagree. The purpose for my reply(s) to the original question was to highlight the very minor (primarily aesthetic) differences between the two M cameras in question (that is the current MP and M6 classic). I have and use both seamlessly.

The materials (better or worse) should mean very little to a user. But, it seems to me, your last admonishments have more to do with your "trivia" being incorrect rather than the confusing details that might cloud ones decision making.

don,

tell us about those things that have real meaning then. We all want to know what is

important and readers hang on every word and we/I become an armchair expert.

If somebody/you can enlighten there is an audience. :-) And let's face it somebody that

wants to know unnecessary fine detail isn't out there doing the stuff.

That's probably true of all the forums, but it's just the lads sat round for a chat.

Dick: You last response said you would probably get an M6TTL. The M6TTL shutter speed dial rotates the oposite direction of the one on the M3. If you want it to rotate the same, get an M6 non-TTL.

Cheers.

<p>This is an old thread but I thought I'd contribute for those who are looking to buy a mechanical film Leica with a lightmeter (M5, M6, M6TTL, MP).<br>

I've owned an M6 classic for 7 years now and the only practical reason I can think of upgrading to an MP is rangefinder patch flare. My M6 flares a lot and I believe this was fixed with the MP and later M cameras. My M8 with its modern finder rarely flares.</p>

<p>Hope this helps someone.</p>