Lumix is fading out from our mind...

Discussion in 'Mirrorless Digital Cameras' started by peter_roberts|4, Nov 17, 2011.

  1. after the failure of GF2 and GF3, GX1 is likely the only model from pana to recover from the red sales figure this fiscal year alongside the huge financial loss in TV business. but can GX1 be a hero? definitely NO. Lumix is fading out from our minds... will pana sell its camera business?
     
  2. How do you know that the GF2 and GF3 failed, do you have any websites that show sales figures? I can't seem to find anything about it online. In fact, the Panasonic annual report for 2011 claims increased sales in m4/3 land. Are you subscribed to IDC or NPD, whereas you have different data?
    Honestly, there are other things hurting Panasonic. First, Olympus has messed up big time. We'll see what happens with them, but their medical imaging division is really their golden egg; they could care less about cameras.
    Second, I think that overall their camera business is doing very well. The GH2 is doing well enough that it's being compared favorably as a replacement for DSLRs. Whether you're at photo forums like here, or at movie forums like DVXuser, the GH2 is one of the bad boys to have. The G3 is being praised for its performance. Their smaller cameras seem to be selling very well.
     
  3. but can GX1 be a hero? definitely NO.​
    And this is a fact..... how? The model has just hit the marketplace?
    Lumix was never that much on my mind anyway, so it can't fade out of it either. And I own a Lumix P&S.
     
  4. I know you are writers for pana. it is very right that you are performing your jobs. how i knew gf2 & gf3 failed, you also knew that...
     
  5. Peter, your name seems English or American but judging from your grammar it does not seem like English is your native language. I don't really know what you are trying to communicate in your second post.
    Regardless, here are some links of Panasonic financial results. The division with digital cameras had a sales decrease of 14% from a year ago. You can look through all the tables and draw your own conclusions.
    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fphotoscala.de%2FArtikel%2FPanasonic-stellt-sich-mit-Verlust-neu-auf
    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/announcement-of-financial-resultspanasonic-reports-second-quarter-and-six-month-results-2011-10-31
     
  6. I know you are writers for pana. it is very right that you are performing your jobs. how i knew gf2 & gf3 failed, you also knew that...​
    Spare me!
    If all you are trying to do is troll up an argument, you're doing well, but if you are trying to stimulate genuine conversation you're a total FAIL.
     
  7. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    Whatever happened to taking photos? Why would anyone interested in taking photos care that much about a camera business being sold to another manufacturer?
     
  8. Peter, if you think I'm a Panasonic shill, you need to look at some of my previous posts. Or, maybe you just like to be wrong about EVERYTHING you say. I asked you for proof that the GF2 and GF3 were sales flops, because I don't see any online. Instead of providing said proof that they aren't selling well, you go straight to the personal attacks to try to discredit a reasonable argument against your wholly unreasonable argument. Again though, I don't have access to IDC or NPD data, so if you know something I don't, feel free to share. Otherwise, you're just a fanboy who's been hurt because of your own expectations for a new model, and you're throwing a tantrum online to make yourself feel better.
    Would a Panasonic employee say that online?
     
  9. The LX5 has been passed by the Fuji X10 as the smallish-sensor camera of choice.

    The TS3 will be inferior to the Canon D10 replacement, if it ever comes out. Currently the TS3 is superior if you don't install CHDK on the D10, inferior if you do.

    The FZ150 looks excellent. Finally a CMOS superzoom with good image quality. Isn't the FZ line a huge success? The TZ/ZS series was an initial success, but the ZS10 is less than competitive.

    Micro 4/3 was a fad in the UK, but never caught on in a big way elsewhere. With Sony NEX replacing the viewfinderless models, and Sony SLT replacing the EVF models, m4/3 has no significant advantage any more. No wonder they've had a 14% sales decline. I would like to blame it on proprietary batteries, but that's probably not the cause.
     
  10. Cool, I've got a new job! Writer for Panasonic....
    :)
    Think I'll stick to my actual job, though. And to my normal camera, which is not a Panasonic at all. The P&S is a nice thing, but well, I got it because it was cheap, small enough and decent enough. And because the Canon I actually wanted wasn't available.
    Clearly, wanting a Canon to sit alongside my Nikon DSLR to replace a broken Fuji P&S makes me a Panasonic messenger. Obvious.
     
  11. In fact, I decided to do a little more searching, in case I was missing something obvious. BOTH the GF2 and GF3 are in this week's top 10 cameras sold:
    http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0008.html
    And Yahoo claims that Panasonic and Sony together own 70%:
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Research-and-Markets-Global-bw-2629392611.html?x=0
    Of course, if we want a breakdown, you could put your money where your mouth is, and buy the full report for 2011, only 1,400 Euro.
    http://www.researchandmarkets.com/research/d043c9/global_and_chinese
    Peace, crybaby.
     
  12. Why would anyone interested in taking photos care that much about a camera business being sold to another manufacturer?​
    A person may own a lot of gear from that company and is wondering about future lenses, warranty support, etc. in case of a sale.
    I actually care because I have worked on image processing chips in digital cameras. The sales of chips to various camera companies is what provided me with money to live.
     
  13. It is possible for native speakers to be relatively inarticulate in written communication. The "paranoid style" in discourse is similarly not limited to non-Americans.
    I personally suspect the OP of being a Trotskyite entrist worker for a Lumix competitor. :\
     
  14. That BCNranking is just Japan, right? Nobody in the US would buy a camera named Kiss.

    Yahoo's 70% number is only for the EVIL market. For DSLR, a much larger market worldwide, Canon and Nikon have 75% market share.

    Amazon's top 100 has Panasonic FH25 in 6th place, but no Micro 4/3 cameras in the top 100.
     
  15. Canon has multiple names for the same product depending on where it is sold. In the US you can buy the fairly new Canon EOS Rebel T3i. In other parts of the world the same body may be called the 600D or the Kiss X5. Dpreview usually lists all the names for the models here.
    http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/cameras
     
  16. Bill, yes that BCN ranking is just Japan; IDC and NPD would be 100% applicable to this discussion, but IDC's report costs $2,000:
    http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=230730
    NPD has good articles too, but again they probably cost about the same.
    The Kiss X5 is just the Japanese name for the Canon T3i. Just how they do things over there. Their cars are named like that too. Our (American) Nissan 370Z is a Nissan Fairlady over there, the Infiniti G37 is called a Skyline, and the Lexus IS used to be called an Altezza. I didn't mean the link to be absolute proof, but it's the only hard data I found after a bit of searching. It's fine if the GF2 and GF3 are failures, no skin off my back, but I'd like to see some data that points that way, because I don't understand that to be the case. I'm not a big fan of baseless assumptions and unfounded assumptions, which the OP seems to be providing in spades. Walt has provided a link as good as any that I've found at marketwatch.com. Digital cameras are included in Digital AVC networks, which also includes mobile phones, Bluray, and TV, which all together are down 14%. However, it also notes the Japan earthquake and the strengthening of the yen. So, I'm not sure, but while the OP may not like the direction that Panasonic took with the GF2 and GF3, I'd like to see something from him that shows them to be failures, market-wise.
     
  17. Some of the best "Street" photographers I know love the Gf2 (not the 3). So I'm not sure what "failure"means here. They are great little cameras for taking pictures. I assume that's what everyone's interest is right?
     
  18. it

    it

    "Fading out from our mind".
    Where on earth does this stuff come from?
     
  19. Why would anyone interested in taking photos care that much about a camera business being sold to another manufacturer?​
    http://fonsecaphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/What-the-Duck-Gettng-Clubbed.gif
     
  20. Sniff.....sniff sniff....
    Do I smell a troll?
     
  21. look, pana is a manufacturer who could not tolerate any unit having negative profit in consecutive three years. pana killed its mobile phone unit in 2005 and tried to sell its plasma facility because of poor TV business now. as a consumer, i am better to reply on a producer who RELYS 100% on camera business, like Nikon, Leica and Canon.
    there could be chance that i invest on pana mini 4/3 system with somes lens and suddenly pana closes its camera business. just a waste of money. right? GH2 was a good camera? ha ha, what a joke. ok, even if it were a good selling model, how the sales of GH2 could compensate for the loss of market segments where gf1 and other fx models made in the past.
    yes, i am not from western countries, but what's wrong with that. i just know management style pf pana. pana is a old fashioned company and senior members of camera factory just fail to follow the new trend of digital camera, not even mentions leading the trend.
     
  22. Flash - Dateline 19 November 2011 - Reality News Network -
    Nikon has it's toes in other puddles ...
    http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/51/51742.html
    In part -
    Nikon Corporation Company Profile
    Nikon's focus extends far wider than most consumers would believe. Though well-known for its cameras, lenses, and other consumer imaging products, Nikon vies with national rival Canon and Netherlands-based ASML Holding to be the world's top producer of photolithography steppers, which is the crucial equipment used to etch circuitry onto semiconductor wafers and LCD panels (the Precision Equipment division). The company's Instruments unit makes surveying instruments, microscopes, and measuring instruments. Other products include ophthalmic lenses, optical equipment, and thin film coatings. Founded in 1917, Nikon is part of the huge Mitsubishi "keiretsu", a group of businesses linked by cross-ownership.
     
  23. i still remmeber 20 years ago when i bought a technics organ to my kids who went to technics organ academy every weekend. but suddenly, pana closed its techincs organ business all of a sudden simply because of continued loss of money.
    imagine how my kids were trying to adapt to other organ manufacturer - yamaha... a painful experience to my kids and a pain experience to my pocket...
     
  24. "Lumix is fading out from our mind..."
    I think your mind is fading.
     
  25. I'd assume you were trolling if you didn't have so many posts, so I guess you're just ignorant. Just because Panasonic stopped making organs, what did that mean for you as a consumer? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Stradivarius violins are no longer made, does that mean they're obsolete? Oh wait, it's not, because if you buy a good instrument, you don't have to upgrade every 6 months. Just because Panasonic stopped making organs, that didn't mean that you had to stop playing one. Once you know how to play an organ, the minor differences between companies don't matter. You could continue to send your kids to classes. This is like listening to your GPS, following the results literally, driving your car off the side of a cliff, and then blaming the GPS because it sent you the wrong way. Stop being so hardheaded, live a little. Do you think that the world-famous concert violinists and cellists are playing the same instrument they learned on? Did Yo-yo Ma's mother buy her 4-year old son a 1712 Stradivarius as his first cello, which he uses today? Absolutely not. There is not enough difference between a Panasonic organ and a Yamaha organ to worry about switching.
    Please. Look at ANY of the companies, and they've burned their customers one way or another. My dad was a Nikon guy, which is why for my personal equipment, I was a Nikon guy. However, there came a point when Nikon changed its mount enough that if I use lenses from my father's old Nikon F on my D200, I will mess up the mount. Heck, Nikon's lower half of their camera division can't even use over half the lenses out there today. They don't have metering with anything but the newer lenses, and they don't autofocus with any lens that doesn't say AF-S on it. Also, do you remember Nikon's Pronea camera system, or are you selectively remembering history to back your closed-minded point of view? Canon COMPLETELY abandoned their SLR customer base in the late 1980's, during the switch from FD to EOS. They just told everyone, "sorry guys, we have to completely redesign our mount, so all of your generations of Canon equipment is now obsolete." Both of these companies had rangefinder models at one time, but they abandoned those users as well. Minolta switched from their SR mount (Rokkor, MD, MC, etc) to the A-mount.
    It's funny that you mention Leica, thinking that they are a more trustworthy camera company than Panasonic. Because, Leica doesn't have the manufacturing capacity or the size, so I'd say somewhere between 6-9 Leica models on the market today are just rebranded Panasonics. Does the fact that Leica trusts Panasonic so deeply, to design and build their cameras help sway your opinion about the company? Does that matter to you at all, that Leica thinks Panasonic cameras are good enough to carry the Leica name? Also, consider why Leica went to them: if you watch TV at all, there's a good chance are that the image is being brought to you from Panasonic, because they are a POWERHOUSE when it comes to motion pictures. Also, what about the Leica R mount users? Do you remember that mount? Guess what happened to it? Dropped like a cheap date, that's what. Leica decided that they didn't want to make any R mount cameras any more, so they stopped. Also, let's not forget the Digilux 3 which was abandoned after less than 5 years, so I hope no one trusted Leica enough to buy one of those, because there's NOTHING left for that camera.
    You don't find the GH2, or the G3 to be a good camera? Why not? They are being picked up by serious users, people with decades of experience with professional photography. People that came from film, from large format to 35mm, are picking up a GH2 to use day to day. Actually, don't tell me why, because I don't care. You've shown yourself to be someone whose opinion can't be trusted. I like my Panasonic G2, there are worlds of people that love their GH1's, GH2's, and GF2's, so why don't you keep your opinions to yourself. Good luck finding a camera company that doesn't abandon its customers, I believe that you have a LONG search ahead of you.
     
  26. Also, take a hint from the fact that NO ONE at photo.net agrees with you.
     
  27. This is why I've stayed away from digital cameras for now: the market is following the cell phone theme of introducing models every other week, with anything more than a year old totally obsolete.
    I'm not sure the comparison to a Stradivari violins is quite complete, because violins improve as they age, and because violins have achieved their final form (only string technology changes). Violins don't become obsolete due to software, performance improvements, lack of spare parts, or paradigm shift by consumers (no one will stop using them because they got a Strad app for their smarty-pants phone). The day WILL come when no one makes a USB or firewire port.
     
  28. My violin reference is because of peter's idiotic rant about the organ, nothing to do with digicams.
     
  29. This is why I've stayed away from digital cameras ... anything more than a year old totally obsolete.
    Funny, my seven-year-old Pentax DSLR takes pictures today as well as it did the day I bought it, and haven't felt a strong need to replace it in all that time. No one forces you to upgrade, y'know.
    If you're a pro, buy what meets your professional needs today and for the next year or two. If you're a hobbyist, buy what makes you happy. Nobody can predict what will happen after that, and trying to do so is a waste of time.
     
  30. The day WILL come when no one makes a USB or firewire port.​
    The day WILL come when no one makes film anymore.
    Probably just a bit sooner than the USB port.
    pana is a old fashioned company and senior members of camera factory just fail to follow the new trend of digital camera, not even mentions leading the trend.​
    Yes, like when they followed the trend of small system cameras with exchangable lenses, by launching one together with Olympus.... pretty much as the first ones. That was a clear example of following the herd!
    There is nothing wrong with ranting a little, and letting off steam because you feel let down for some reason. But claims that cannot be substantiated by data, arguments that are solely based on sentiments... please admit it's just ranting and nothing more. Don't keep going, it stops being funny.
     
  31. This is why I've stayed away from digital cameras for now... ...anything more than a year old totally obsolete.​
    Really? My original digital cameras, purchased in 2004 & 2005, must have come from the future because they work perfectly fine and still get plenty of use.
     
  32. it

    it

    "This is why I've stayed away from digital cameras for now... ...anything more than a year old totally obsolete."
    hahahahaha
     
  33. I like my G10 and like my Mark iii.
    [​IMG]
    Movies, books, film ....
     
  34. Peter Roberts, your writing totally out of school. Neither Nikon, Leica, Zeiss nor Olympus rely totally on cameras for their primary business. They are all major players in microscopy, surveying, medical equipment and many other optical dependent industries. Panasonic is a major partner with Leica in developing sensors and camera systems. I am primarily a MF and LF photographer, but I own a Lumix G1 I bought on the gray market. Its a fine camera and lots of fun to use. Micro 4/3 is a great alternative to lugging my Nikon system around and the Leica lenses developed for it are superb.
     
  35. I'm not really a fan of the 4/3rds format, but his thread is a load of Shite....with a capital S...
    I still have my Lumix T shirts.
     
  36. Nick, +1 on the BBV pic. lol
    I dunno, in the last year I've purchased a GF1 and a G2, and am using my Canon FD lens collection when they're not shooting film. :)
     

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