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For some reason I am fascinated by Lumedyne and I look at the listing on eBay. The problem seems to be finding or making the right batteries. I am not exactly handy but there seems to be some battery online company selling 3rd party batteries so as to re-cell. Is there any clear cook book doc to do such? I can't find any. I see many listings have the bulb and the pack but the battery is either missing or just bad. I know it's year 2021.
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Recelling the battery pack is relatively easy, if you are handy with electronics and a soldering iron.

You CAREFULLY open the battery pack, determine what type of cells are used and how many, then order the cells.

Then the fun part; take the old cells out without damaging things, soldering the new cells into sets, shrink wrap the sets, solder the sets together then into the pack, put the pack back together.

On my pack I think it was either 3 sets of 3 cells each, total 9 cells, or 3 sets of 4 each, total 12 cells.

 

The original cells are NiCd, I replaced them with NiMH.

BUT, when you do that, you also need to find and adapt a NiMH charger, as the Lumedyne NiCd charger won't properly charge NiMH cells.

 

Warning. Do not get Tenergy NiMH cells. Tenergy overrates their NiMH cells. NONE of my 25+ Tenergy NiMH cells (AA and sub-C) tested anywhere near the rated capacity.

So if you pay more for a Tenergy HIGH capacity battery, it is wasted money. Because you are not getting the capacity that you think you are getting, and paying extra for.

 

I still use my Lumedyne, as a HV pack for my shoe flash.

The shoe flash recyles FAST, and I don't worry about draining the batteries inside the shoe flash.

Once you get used to a FAST recycle, it is like drugs, you can't live without it.

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i use a pair of Sunpak 120J from eBay. One is powered by a Godox PB960 and the other by the "original" pack with new NiMh cells ordered online. I want to upgrade to Lumedyne mostly for the challenge and irrational yearnings. I bought a qflash model T but it was AS IS and dead on arrival. So right now I am looking at Lumedyne, I have no soldering iron nor do I know anything about electricity.

When I bought the modified battery pack for the Sunpak 120J I got one Universal Smart Charger 0.6A to 1.2A. I haven't used the battery for a long time and it no longer charges. The guy told me to wake it up, and I have no idea how to wake it up.

Anyway thanks for the information. I read online it seems like Sanyo people trust.

If I Google Lumedyne re-cell I also got results of what looks like dynamite cells...So it's out there it's just that I don't know how to go about doing it. I guess I just have to do it do it.

Sorry about the rambling and thanks again.

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If you have not soldered, you need to get a soldering iron and PRACTICE. Soldering is not as easy as some make it out to be.

And for electronics, you need to use ROSIN core solder, NOT acid core.

For the batteries, you solder the tabs, NOT the cells. The heat will damage the cells.

 

If the batteries for your Sunpak won't take a charge, replace them. Don't bother with trying to "wake it up." The batteries are damaged.

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I used to send my Lumedyne batteries to a Batteries Plus location near me (Long Island, NY) where they would re-cell the battery units. Instead of soldering they have a device that will zap a metal tab to a cell without damaging the cell with heat (like a soldering iron can)... I don't remember what they called it. Anyway, the price was right and less of a hassle than doing it myself!

 

But I sold all my Lumedyne stuff years ago when I realized the flash duration of the regular packs is SO LONG that I was losing a significant amount of exposure when syncing at 1/250th of a second shutter speed. This also means that the Lumedyne gear really can't freeze action unless you invest in one of their special and expensive "Action" short flash duration packs (which also can't run off an AC adapter). Even portrait photos looked not as sharp or crisp as I would like when using the "regular" Lumedyne packs I owned, and I attribute that to the long flash duration.

The AC adapter attaches to the bottom of a pack like a battery and it weighs a TON - lots of copper in that transformer. It does not shorten recycling speeds.

The Lumedyne system also does not have a radio receiver built into it. You have to attach (tape, rubber band, Velcro, etc.) a PocketWizard receiver to the flash head where the sync port is located. It's sort of kludgey...

The Lumedyne modeling lamp is a joke - only useful in a dark room, and only certain flash heads have a modeling lamp. The switch for the lamp is on the head so if the head is out of reach on a tall stand or boom you're out of luck.

 

Honestly, if you need a portable battery powered light system, I'd look at Elinchrom Ranger, various Godox/Flashpoint units, and Alien Bees (with their Li-Ion battery) - all of which have shorter flash durations and all of which have some sort of radio system baked in. Heck, you can do a lot with just speedlights too.

Just my 2 cents...

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I guess part of it is really my unhealthy obsession with anything that's old and cheap and reasonably good. I read they offer fast duration for their action pack. I always wonder how much it helps if one doesn't use hypersync and shoot at top x-sync, say 1/250s and f/16 in broad daylight. Would a very fast duration help? I don't know. When I shoot any action I mostly shoot at 1/30 with flash. I don't try to freeze it. I read Rineke Dijkstra used Lumedyne in her beach portraits. Given it's long duration maybe it works well with hypersync.
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I guess part of it is really my unhealthy obsession with anything that's old and cheap and reasonably good.

There's very little out there that meets that last 'reasonably good' clause.

 

I'd try to get rid of that obsession if I were you. Because modern flash equipment is generally streets ahead of what was available in the past (say, more than 20 years ago).

I always wonder how much it helps if one doesn't use hypersync and shoot at top x-sync, say 1/250s and f/16 in broad daylight. Would a very fast duration help?

Hypersynch, HSS or FP synch, call it what you will, is generally a marketing bluff. It does very little to help with synchro-sun light balancing, if anything. Although it does have some use shooting fast-moving subjects in mixed ambient+flash situations.

 

The issue with HSS is that as soon as you go above the X-synch shutter speed, the flash effectively loses power. So what was a flash GN of, say, 36 @ 1/250th s, immediately becomes a GN of about 24 @ 1/500th s. So you gain nothing in trying to overpower or balance sunlight.

Instead of soldering they have a device that will zap a metal tab to a cell without damaging the cell with heat (like a soldering iron can)... I don't remember what they called it.

It's called a spot-welder.

Edited by rodeo_joe|1
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  • 1 year later...
On 6/1/2021 at 9:10 PM, Gary Naka said:

The original cells are NiCd, I replaced them with NiMH.

BUT, when you do that, you also need to find and adapt a NiMH charger, as the Lumedyne NiCd charger won't properly charge NiMH cells.

From lumedyne.com: "The NiCd and NiMh batteries share most of the chargers with full compatibilty"

I did see a sold (fleaBay) Lumedyne charger that was marked 16v 700mAh.

As to buying NiMH batteries Lumedyne does not disclose what the specs. are but I believe them to be 1.2v 4200mAh.

Would like to know if anyone has found a third party charger??

Edited by sf_photo1
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The Lumedyne NiCd battery packs that I have, are made in two different ways.  There may be others.

#1, a thermal sensor/switch is attached to one of the NiCd cells. 
When the cell is fully charged, it heats up, and heats the sensor.  The sensor has a switch in it that opens the battery circuit, stopping the charge.
PROBLEM.  You cannot use the battery immediately.  The thermal switch MUST cool down before you can use the pack.  When the switch opens to stop the charge, it also prevents you from drawing power from the pack.

#2, does NOT have a thermal sensor/switch. 

#2a.  The standard charger for my Lumedyne pack was a dumb charger.  For this, you have to charge the old fashioned way. 
Full charge of a drained NiCd battery is about 16 hours.  You have to estimate/guess how much of the capacity you used, then charge for that percent. 
Example, if you think you used 50% of the capacity, you charge for 8 hours. 
This has been the weakness of dumb charging NiCd batteries.

If the NiCd cell is rated for RAPID charging, you can charge at a higher current for a shorter amount of time.  But you still have to estimate/guess how long that time is.

NiMH cells do NOT like to be charged this way.  You could easily overcharge the cells and damage them.
Use a "smart" charger.

#2b.  Use a "smart" charger.  You use a NiCd/NiMH charger that will electrically determine when the pack is fully charged. 
That is what I use.  I use a Tenergy NiCd/NiMH RC charger.  I replaced the RC battery connector with the proper plug for the Lunedyne pack.
This charges more reliably than the dumb charger.  I plug it in and walk away, and the charger will turn off when it determines that the battery pack is fully charged.  I don't have to guess at how long to charge the battery.
Note, you have to get a charger that is rated for the voltage or number of cells that is in YOUR pack.  A 4-cell charger won't fully charge a 6-cell pack.

IMPORTANT.
You have to get a charger that is matched to the cells in the pack. 
I do NOT know what kind of NiCd cells are in the Lumedyne pack.  It has been a LONG time since I had mine open.
NiCd cells, unless they are rated for RAPID charge, are charged at C/10.  A 4000mAh cell would be charged at 400mA.  If you put more than 400mA into the cell, you could damage the cell. 
NiMH cell can be charged at C/2, so a 4000mAh cell can be charged at 2000mA.
So the higher current charger that I use on a pack that has been recelled with NiMH cells, CANNOT be used on a NiCd pack, or you could/will damage the NiCd cells.
To prevent this MIX UP, I label the packs that have been recelled with NiMH cells, and the rated capacity of the NiMH cells.

As for the cells.  That depends on YOUR battery pack. 
I have not opened up any other pack than mine.
Mine uses sub-C cells with tabs. 
From memory, I think it is arranged in three sticks of three or four cells.

 


 

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Thanks Gary for all your details.

My batteries are not marked at all. One (of 3) pack does have a sticker saying to dispose of nicad batteries properly. No volts nor amps shown, all are sub c. All packs are 3 rows of 3 cells wired in series. A mini pack has one set of 9, a regular two sets of 9 w/ the two sets wired together in parallel. I assume this mans the reg. pack has double the amps but the same 10.8v.

In addition some are marked 24 or 25 and others 24c, 25c. The 'c' versions have a smaller charging port, perhaps 2.1mm vs. 2.5mm and have the 'Pepi' light when they get to temp.

I had mentioned the voltage and amperage in the above post as that is what was listed in an advert I saw for replacement NiMH batteries. I have also seen 1.2v cells w/ 3600mAh NiMH which I assume would also work. I plan to purchase some. More amps presumably means more flashes.

The Lumedyne web site says NiMH deliver 50% more flashes.

As for chargers I have a 017 (dead) Lumedyne double charger with one fast and one trickle lead. No voltage or amps are marked/displayed. Have had it perhaps 30 years and since my packs all seem to have nicads I would assume their nicads can be quick/fast charged.

I have noted the specs of Lumedyne 'wall' chargers / sold fleaBay items:
16v 700mAh, 15v 600mAh & 14w 360mAh (i.ebayimg.com/images/g/8scAAOSwLVpjBVZ6/s-l1600.jpg, i.ebayimg.com/images/g/rHwAAOSwGCBiyEDW/s-l1600.jpg)

In looking at Tenergy NiCd/NiMH RC chargers they offer a 12v 1000mAh / 2000mAh (selectable). Also one that is 900mAh / 1800mAh (selectable). Both show a green light [smart] when charged and adapt to the voltage of the battery. Perhaps one of these is what you got?

I would think their 12v 900mAh / 1800mAh would be best using the 900 setting for nicads and the 1800 for NimH

Edited by sf_photo1
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Update from Promark, service center for Lumedyne (Lumedyne has closed).

Min battery uses 9 sub-c NiCad 1.2v 1800mAh
OR NiMH 1.2v 3400mAh

As the Regular battery uses 2 sets of 9 wired in parallel the mAh are doubled. Voltage remains the same.

So using Gary's charger specs above, the:

NiMH Minis should be charged with an 1700mAh+/- charger, and a Regular with a 3400mAh charger.

The older NiCads, having much less amperage, Gary mentions charging with 1/10 of the batteries mAh.


 

 

 

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My approach is to use whatever STANDARD capacity NiMH cell you can find.

CAUTION, the rated capacity of some brands is terribly overrated.
I have well over 24 TENERGY High Capacity NiMH batteries (AA and sub-C), and NOT ONE has tested at more than 75% of the rated capacity.  This is even at the LOWEST discharge rate my tester can do.  Not buying any more of that brand.

Then get a NiMH charger with a max charge current of about C/2.

I dug my charger out.
I made it because my Lumedyne charger had died. 
One difference in my charger is, I do not use the coax connector to charge.  I charge through the 6-pin connector that connects the battery pack to the main part of the pack.  I do not remember why I made that decision, but it must have made sense to me.
The charger is several years old, and has no model number on it.  Typical of some 3rd party products, unbranded and put into a branded box.
It is labeled at 600ma constant current.  Since I use it for NiCd packs, I can't charge at the highter NiMH rate.

I "think" the NiCd cells in the Lumedyne pack are rapid charge batteries.
For the 1800mAH NiCd, C/10 = 180mA charge rate.  That is much less than the 600mA charger that I am using.  So, when I made my charger, I must have determined that the Lumedyne NiCd cells are rapid charge cells.  Or I simply used a similar charge current to the stock Lumedyne charger.

Once I recell all my packs with NiMH, I will switch to a charger with a higher charge rate.
KISS.  I prefer having ONE setup, to eliminate the possibility of a charging mistake, charging NiCd at the highter NiMH rate.  If a mistake can be made, I will make it.

I had intended to recell all the packs with NiMH, to get a greater capacity (number of flashes).
But I have yet to drain one old "mini" NiCd pack at a shoot, so my need to recell the packs has dropped in priority.  Although I do have a dead pack that I bought intending to recell.

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  • 2 weeks later...

> CAUTION, the rated capacity of some brands is terribly overrated. I have well over 24 TENERGY High Capacity NiMH batteries (AA and sub-C), and NOT ONE has tested at more than 75% of the rated capacity.

The sub c cells I have seen for sale are often 2,000mAh up to 4000mAh (Lumedyne ones are 3400).

I assume you are saying you purchased some sold as 3400+/- and they were only 2200+/-.

I shall have to research how to check the mAh with my multi meter. Thinking I need to test while charging or while the batteries are powering something and test in-line connecting the leads of the meter in the common part of the circuit.

 

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On 1/31/2023 at 5:15 PM, sf_photo1 said:

> CAUTION, the rated capacity of some brands is terribly overrated. I have well over 24 TENERGY High Capacity NiMH batteries (AA and sub-C), and NOT ONE has tested at more than 75% of the rated capacity.

The sub c cells I have seen for sale are often 2,000mAh up to 4000mAh (Lumedyne ones are 3400).

I assume you are saying you purchased some sold as 3400+/- and they were only 2200+/-.

I shall have to research how to check the mAh with my multi meter. Thinking I need to test while charging or while the batteries are powering something and test in-line connecting the leads of the meter in the common part of the circuit.

 

The usable capacity of any rechargeable cell varies with the discharge load/current. Manufacturers baldly quote the best case scenario without necessarily disclosing the details. It might be a load of a few kilohms over many days, or a few ohms over a matter of minutes - who knows? But both cases almost certainly won't multiply out to the same milliampere-hour figure. 

Unless you have a multimeter with a data output, together with a computer datalogging application, your plan sounds like a tedious way to pass the time!😵

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  • 11 months later...
On 1/20/2023 at 2:30 PM, Gary Naka said:

have well over 24 TENERGY High Capacity NiMH batteries (AA and sub-C), and NOT ONE has tested at more than 75% of the rated capacity.  This is even at the LOWEST discharge rate my tester can do.  Not buying any more of that brand.

Gary,

 

I know this is an older post, but just curious have you tested Tenergy batteries recently?

I have used bunches of them in both NiCd and NiMH in AA, Sub-C, and 4/5 Sub-C. I typically go with their standard capacity batteries. Right now I have quite literally over 100 each Ni-Cd AA 1000mAH, NiMH AA 2000mAH and 4/5SC NiMH 2000mAH. I also have several(in the dozens) 4/5SC NiCd 1300mAH, NiCd SC 2200mAH, and NiMH SC 4200mAH.

I spot check cell lots any time I get them with 1 or 2 cells. My spot check is charging at c/10 for 14 hours while monitoring voltage with a sensitive bench multimeter. I will terminate charge if I see the full charge drop signature, although it's subtle especially on NiMH at that charge rate on a single cell. Plus, NiMH will generally tolerate C/10 without harm for several hours past full charge, and NiCd could probably go 72 hours without harm. I follow that by discharge at c/10 to 1.05V, where almost without fail I will get rated capacity +/-5% on the full charge(although to be honest discharge termination voltage doesn't matter a ton as long as you don't go too low-once you fall into the "toe" of the discharge curve or below about 1.1-1.15V depending on load there's not any useable capacity remaining). After initial charge I do a couple charges at C/5. Since I know they are discharged starting, I set a timer for 5 hours, watch for the full charge voltage drop(which is a bit more pronounced at higher charge rates) and monitor temperature. Rarely will they not test at 5-10% over rated capacity at this point.

When I build packs, I bulk sort by internal resistance to get matched cells, then do the same conditioning as above before charging where they'll finally be installed(i.e. an 8 AA cell pack for a Quantum Turbo SC goes in a Turbo SC, and preferably in the one where it will end up). I generally do both C/5 and C/2 discharges after doing this and check "real world" performance(make sure they give at least the number of flashes that Quantum says they will-I never get less!).

Right now I have 5 packs sitting on my bench that are 8 cell 4/5SC NiMH meant for the Quantum Turbo Z. Even though this was originally a Ni-Cd pack, I've monitored charging on it and I'm satisfied that it can safely charge NiMH correctly.

The only exception I've had was one box of 4/5SC Ni-Cds that tested out at ~1100(rated 1300) no matter how much "massaging" I did. Other boxes I bought at the same time were fine.

I've only done one Lumedyne pack, but I have about a half dozen small NiCd packs, one medium NiCd, and a Minicycler(which uses the same 9 Sub-Cs as the other packs). I know Lumedyne advertises that they will upgrade NiCd to NiMH-I'd think the ones with thermal termination could handle it but I don't know. I'm tempted to try one...

Granted I don't know how much real use I have for Lumedynes. For fast flash recycle, I prefer the size if the Turbo SC or the capacity/speed of the 2x2 and Turbo 3. The Megacycler does recycle faster than any Quantum product I'm aware of, but it's also bigger, bulkier, and annoyingly loud. I have a few Lumedyne heads and power packs for them, and I appreciate both the modularity and how much more powerful they can be than a some other portable options, but for my use I find the Q flash T series better. I know they are a lot less powerful, but I like the 1/3 stop manual adjustment and all the nice wireless controllable TTL features you get with the T5Dr and the right other bits and pieces.

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16 hours ago, hjoseph7 said:

Ben your post are like reading a novel of War and Peace . Whjat exactly are you asking here ?

The post was directed at one specific person, and has quite a few specific questions in it combined with my own experience and data.

I'm sorry that you find it cumbersome to read, but the questions I'm asking to another user relate to both the age of their experience and some technical minutia about how certain products work. I'm sorry if you don't seem to understand these questions.

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