Littman 45 or Fotoman 45PS

Discussion in 'Large Format' started by tony_black|1, Jan 9, 2007.

  1. I need something light and easy to shoot handheld.

    Which camera would you prefer?
     
  2. Check out these members' cameras:

    http://www.photo.net/photos/Camera%20Conjurer

    http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~razzle/
     
  3. Well, they are very very different cameras at very different prices.

    The Littman is a fixed lens folding camera with coupled rangefinder. Based on a used Polaroid. To my tastes it is obscenely expensive. Others may not agree with this assessment.

    The Fotoman is an interchangeable lens camera with, if desired, an accessory uncoupled RF. Lenses in focusing helicals. Much less expensive.

    Neither offers movements.

    The two have a little more in common than the proverbial chalk and the equally proverbial cheese, but not much more. If I had to buy a handheld 4x5 camera with minimal movements and were not allowed to buy a used press camera I'd get a Fotoman. But your needs/preferences and budget may not be mine.
     
  4. rj

    rj

    Crown graphic with the moderate wide/wide angle of your choice, that would be my choice. The crown is much lighter than the speed graphic because of the lack of rear shutter and can be had for little money. You can load 6 shots in a graphmatic back and shoot away.

    Now, between your two choices, I'd get the Fotoman because of cost and it probably weighs less than the littman, but not sure of that.
     
  5. Another alternative that offers rise (or fall) as well is Gaoersi. Otherwise similar to Fotoman but cheaper still.

    http://www.focus-dayi.com/cp_detail.php?id=5762&nowmenuid=2498&cpath=&catid=0
     
  6. another link http://www.obscura-camera.com/
    a few years ago I ordered Noah a Polaroid converted to 4x5 and was very happy with the results, it is a very well made camera by a very nice person.
     
  7. If I remember the ebay listing for the Littman correctly, you have to pick it up in New York. So depending on where you're located, add at least another several hundred dollars to the . . .shall we say high . . . price. But I suppose another several hundred is pocket change when you're paying $4995 for the camera.
     
  8. Dear Dan Fromm; I take this opportunity to congratulate you; as you are a gentleman. and have done what you could to improve the tone in these discussions. "proberbial cheese"very colorful and such language uplifts these otherwise insensitive poking fests to almost make it appear like a wine tasting.. with that said . your comment "Neither offers movements" is not true. The L45s has offered full front tilt in the vertical position and full swing in the horizontal position since 2000( seven years) That has been addressed in many discussions in which you participated.and you are by far the best of the lot. I do not need to rate you or your postings as my favorite or least favorite but i consider you as someone who makes an efoort to get the facts straight therefore these discussions are fruitless because the facts always get covered by all the poking and If you didnt know my camera has movements after 3 years of participating and reading these threads here and in other sites I can certainly reccomend to readers researching products in good faith to not waste their time with these vindictive and misleading defamation rallies. Now Tony asked "I need something light and easy to shoot handheld". First of all let me clarify that the Fotoman does not infringe on any of our patents Now I don't know how light the fotoman is because I did not weigh the ones I tested but as easy to use handheld I can tell you that would be true if you focused on infinity and shot landscapes. any other use without the aid of a coupled rangefinder handheld will result in a compromise in quality or responsiveness. If you use the sunny 16 rule and no RF you can still be better focused when an RF is present and coupled parallax is also a major asset to handheld responsiveness.and the occasions where you will have F16 and also be able to use a shutter speed over 60th of a second are rare to say the least. If you can prove to me that you can use a fotoman handheld in a responsive manner at wider apertures and obtain proper composition and perfect focus I would gladly give you the most expensive L45s for free. In the fall of 2003 when Fotoman came here to photo.net insisting they had a camera that worked very much like a Linhof technica I paid attention / obtained one and found out it wasn't the case in any regard. Then I read Droluk asked you guys if there would be a need / interest for a helicoids mount metal camera without a rangefinder. Three years before that I posed the same question to a panel consisting of 10 of the most established photographers who used handheld 4x5 and provided them with this prototype of a graflex xl with a Littman 3445 adapter which amounts to a Fotoman with a coupled rangefinder. the front barrels are machined to obtain infinity. The unanimous response was that the cams were ineffective could not be perfected consistently and the helicoids itself was not ergonomic and no parallax adjustment could provide acceptable results. Despite all the drawbacks this camera outperforms the fotoman/ is easier to use etc but it was more appealing to make the effort to resolve the parallelism issue in folding cameras and be able to then have perfect cams and so I chose the Polaroid route as a base for implementing the coupled parallax rangefinder camera project but before that I tried the helicoids route with the 600 se ,the Mamiyas and the Xls and the 180/195 types. As far as it being obscenely expensive that is of course relative to utility and personal preference but just to give you an example Associated Press photographer Ruddy Roye who recently confirmed the benefits of the L45s VI here has contacted me to inform me that after using his new L45s VI he has moved to sell off all of his other equipment and use his L45s exclusively for work. Now in practical terms his" obscenely expensive " 5000 investment has resulted in savings to him of three times that much by the consolidation alone.he tells me that he is saving to obtain a second L45s as soon as he can afford one On the other hand Ruddy informed me that he was able to examine one of the con versions owned by someone who goes by the name of Darkroomguy and he insisted after a close examination that it is not true that these cameras are truly an alternative to my product.not to mention that when I said last month that someone had bought one of these " conversions" thinking it would be a Littman and felt robbed when he received it. He then proceeded to order a L45s VI and I had offered him that he could keep the conversion he bought while I made his L45s but had the following response from him when I was about to ship it back" No don't sent it back It was a pain in the neck to use anyway so I'm fine to just wait for the VI"
    00JXG9-34445084.jpg
     
  9. By the way Mr. Dan Nogue told us his rangefinder was inaccurate 90% of the time and not state of the art.....
    His camera weighs 5.5 LB or more/ not light or easy to use as per his own admission and as far as being an alternative to my camera. I no tink so...... Happy 10% of the time ? congratulations on his high expectations and insisting others should be content with 90% inacuracy .
    http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00AH2j&tag=
     
  10. Re his rangefinder was inaccurate 90% of the time and not state of the art.

    Even a PRE world war 2 speed graphics rangefinder can be calibrated to track a typical 127 mm or 135mm lens; so focus is spot on at all distances.

    Thus it appears folks new to rangefinders have not reached the "state of the art" level of a 1940 design.

    Just because the Ebay camera one buys doesnt track well doesnt mean one cannot align a rangefinder. Normally there are several adjustments and one goes back and worth from infinity to a close distance as one walks in the adjustment. Often folks new to rangefinders dont understand or read the alignment instructions, and goof up the rangefinders alignment.

    Mirrors fade, folks clean them wrong, they get damp and often the RF patch on an older rig is not so bright. With the many 1940's and 1950's speed graphics here the RF patchs appearance is great to poor; with no trend at all with age.


    Something is totally rotten and ill with a camera if its:

    rangefinder was inaccurate 90% of the time this is NOT a not state of the art. problem. Its one of a faulty design and or one of a goofed up rangfinder alignment.

    Even a 1940 speed graphic doesnt have this rangefinder was inaccurate 90% of the time problem when aligned; thus let us pray that folks with newer cameras reach the state of the art of a 1940 camera.
     
  11. Well the rangefinder issue and history is identical to the parallelism issue to which you have admitted was present.
    A lot of great things are present in old technologies some cameras have 1 asset and many drawbacks and it is false and pointless/ futile to dispense valuable life time to insist that everything made earlier was better.

    We did get to the moon mostly on cojones some valuable tech stretched to the limit and if you watch a few pbs documentaries you'll see everyone was praying nervously in front of the TV these brave souls would make it back.

    It would be unfair to say that was worthless and future achievements went on to include such past achievements , continuing to write the book/ not ignoring the past which is a grave mistake just as glorifying it unrealistically is also a mistake.

    In Europe and south America where I grew up the old are included into the life of the young but in America the old are discriminated against and discarded and its a 2 way st. When I was a student at UM and showed up at the condo to move in the doorman was telling a lovely old lady that children were not allowed by the tenants association. I had to put my luggage down and request a glass of water/ sit down as I was shocked by this insanity

    People can see that I have a lot of respect for the past , so much that I have included the old technologies as a solid base from where I could truly improve rather than machine some aluminum / anodize it and call it new when there is nothing new unless utility is increased.

    I make reference to the following discussion where Mr. Fromm pointed out the limitations in the old rangefinders.
    http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Ijcw&tag=

    Things worked in the past otherwise we would not have gotten here but in many cases they were rudimentary and expenditure of time and effort was selective considering only what you could get back.
    the race to get to the moon was fueled by the cold war and it was their team against ours but both sides were flying on pushcarts lots of cojones and though it was highly inspirational the whole interest and expenditure died out once they chose wmd's as a new pissing contest.

    My camera was rated to have outperformed everything ever made in 2002, I could have jumped on Kelly's history bandwagon and stayed in the ivory tower but I found out outperforming others is not much of an achievement after having verified that while mine was the best it could be better . the only true improvement is to outperform yourself. The only respect that matters is self respect and as far as money and worth I can tell you that as a child I met this Tibetan Monk who was making this beautiful mandala out of color sand in my visit to san Francisco when I was 10 and it was so beautiful that I wanted to own it preserve it and he told me that he had spent months making it and that the minute it would be completed he would proceed to destroy it with the stroke of one hand. I told him" Mister you are crazy" and he replied "perhaps"
    and handed me this pamphlet which explained the concept of impermanence.
    basically you cant take it with you and everything which doesn't receive attention turns to dust eventually or ends up collecting it anyway so I have dedicated my life to overcoming my own mediocrity and I still have a long way to go.

    To be able to progress one must be realistic and recognize what the past offered and include it, is useful but in most cases rudimentary and can be improved to meet today's technological standards Europeans seem to have more money because they live in the houses built by their ancestors hundreds of years ago while we buy houses made out of plaster where your roof is the neighbors floor rand your floor is someone else's roof, lean too hard on a wall and you end up in someone else's bedroom .
    and in a few years it gets torn down so they can build a mall.I can understand why some people have little regard for what is older just as much as I can understand why some people cling to the past and use it to look at the present with resentment . I don't give a rats about the generational wars as I believe in synergy as being the ultimate and only alternative to true improvement. I.e. if you have to demolish a house so you can build a new one you spent 2 times as much time and money and have little time and money to make the new one a good house , I'm not concerned with new I am concerned with good to me new means its better if it is new and uses some old parts but is better then it is new. on the other hand if it is newly made but has no more utility that something made previously it isn't new but old and if it has less utility than something made previously then it is really old.

    I went to home depot last year and there was a huge line in the paint department and I went over to the clerk and asked why and the guy laughed and said" its spring people have remembered to improve their houses and so they paint it" he said paint was their biggest seller by far ,I'm not averse to improving the appearance of something as an aesthetics consideration and find it rewarding by what the guy at home depot said I would have to assume most people agree, but that is not a utility improvement so first I addressed the technology and then the cover. it may appeal to some and not to others but it is a grave mistake to glorify the past just as much as it is a mistake to ignore it. I have included a few useful things the past had to offer and I have moved on , the result has been favorable.

    The l45s project started in 2000 in an election year when everyone was concerned about the outcome and the economy and lets say the economy was a lot better.
    & years later we have completed the project and the camera is a lot better the economy is a lot............ and I have no control over it but just as the first model made a huge impression on the upper echelon of the profession the L45s VI is having a more favorable effect still and we are swamped, I have no intention of convincing anyone here but would appreciate it as would the general public if there was a moratorium on the classes and generational wars and people can then trust PN as a source of unbiased advice






    I have a little hesitation on something being " new" as in built from scratch because I have been able to verify that in most cases it proves les beneficial than to include what the past had to offer and turn it into something new based on the utility it can yield rather than jump on the bandwagon where folks are much more attracted by the appetite appeal of anodizing and baked enamel.

    Mr. Flanigan; you're not that old. If you can breathe and you can use your knowledge you can go out and take some pictures instead of dwelling on the past and you might discover that we are all ageless and that time is but an arbitrary consideration. don't be imprisoned by it and by all means don't use it to distance yourself from the newer generations. That I can only hope.
     
  12. The point to be made is that rangefinder cameras have had been made to track correctly; even ones that are from 1940.<BR><BR>The point about somebody having a camera that that rangefinder is 90 percent of the time off seems like a camera not worth wasting film with, until its rangefinder is aligned again; ie FIXED.<BR><BR> An analog would be like having a wrecked 2007 car or a 1940 car that the front end is radically misaligned, and the ones front tires are ruined in 3000 miles. Both errors are tracking problem. <BR><BR>Instead of somebody wasting money with camera that missfocuses 90 percent of the time, they should get their rangefinder aligned.<BR><BR>A missaligned rangefinder is not a design issue; its a product that somebody has messed with, or has swapped out the lens; or has done a hacked attempt in rangefinder alignment without undertanding whats going on.<BR><BR>Having a camera that focuses great with a rangefinder really has nothing to do with the age of the camera, Errors are more of a goober problem, folks miss-aligning, miss-matching the system, or summation of the shock history of the camera.<BR><BR>There are old cars and cameras with no alignment issues, and new ones that have have problems due to hacks; and vice versa. <BR><BR>One doesnt have to have a new camera to get a rangefinder that tracks well, one just has to get ones cameras rangefinder aligned by somebody who understands the relationships,and just doesnt say you rig is aligned with a single distance test, and no others checked. <BR><BR><BR><BR>Here I have bought Speed Graphics off of ebay with a 127mm Ektar for less than 200 bucks where the rig focuses correctly with the RF, and others that are way off, like some bozo fiddled with it and caused it to be radically off. <BR><BR>A mechanical rangefinder system has "gain"; a typical person new to rf alignment often forces infinity to be correct on film and rf; and wrongly assumes the "tracking" will be OK at closer distances. This hack often fools folks; they check infinity, and feel good. Then when the RF rig shoots just ok or poor when used not at infinity; then blame the lens. When the "gain" is wrong the system has a progressive focus error. Most systems require one to walk the system with two or three adjustments; one for infinity; one for close. <BR><BR>One should'nt settle for a rig with a missaligned RF thats off 90 percent of the time used, this is absurd. It should at least be aligned as well as the average photographer aligned his rf did at home in 1940; when the RF's came with alignment instructions and folks were more concerned with money so less film was wasted. <BR><BR>Info on aligning RF's on cameras are available all over the place on the internet. Some of use took the National Camera Repair courses in the 1960's; sometimes these used bookletes are on Ebay used. <BR><BR>
     
  13. Re don't be imprisoned by it and by all means don't use it to distance yourself from the newer generations.

    Walter, you must be really alot older than I am. There is writting done thousands of years ago that have breaks to allow ease of reading. Learning some html is not very hard and will allow others to actually read your writing better.

    Adding some breaks allows one to read writting alot easier than one giant paragraph.



    I have brought up the giant paragraph issue even a year or two ago. It seems sometimes you follow it, then another time you go back to the giant paragraph mode.


    If you make a operating manual for your camera, make sure you have some stopping points, headers, chapter titles etc. Many folks are busy and really dont like to wade thru giant paragraphs.



    Many folks really probably would just like know the sequence of operation for shooting an image with your camera, a speed graphic, a polaroid, a Lennigrad, or a dial 35 than hear the ruckus about patents and struts.

    Tonys question really needs an answer about shooting with the cameras
     
  14. Tony needs an answer? perhaps he and others have a right to expect one which is not biased.

    Frank R who insisted" Don't do it!
    They are clunky, inferior designs that will end up costing you more money than you think.

    You can spend your money on much better cameras " as you can read by accesing the following thread.



    http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Ijcw&tag=
    when i confronted him last time and told him he had to defend his position3 times when he was forcefully confronted by those plugging the conversions he responded that he was able to mantain his position but changed it somewhat because he didnt want to hurt their sales because these guys are helful/ offer free DIY advice


    perhaps he could consider that Mr. Black shouldn't have to pay for the free
    DIY others get for free as an admitted reason for these plugs which are
    against their own better judgment as they have repeatedly posted in their
    own words.


    someone had told me in an earlier thread
    Want better? then invite the competition" Sorry guys no one has
    the right to use this website as a means to tell me to put out or get out
    ;that is 100 % illegal you cant assemble to coherse better terms out of a
    patent holder or choose to engage in retaliatory defamation if you are not
    allowed to vote.

    When admitted falsehoods are utilized as to create such desired effect in
    the real world by the leverage of discredit /membership knowingly misused in
    such manner may constitute gatherings for ilicit purposes.


    And because those who have no interest in the concept or financial interests ambush the podium and chase away those who can provide viable answers telling them they are not one of you and to go away. unfortunately i have to cut my losses and abstain from accepting buisness that would lead to futher of the same and file charges for what has occured when circumstance and preparation is complete.

    Want better? then leave the podium to those who dont have an ax to grind and owners of legitimate/ licenced and legal products. after all if someone wants a useful answer they certainly dont want you to reccomend they buy a camera you would not touch with a ten foot pole but plug it because you get something out of it or you hate his competitor. Photo.net deserves better .

    Tony should buy the Fotoman as I cant offer him my services nor to anyone who comes to enquire about it here encouraging competition which is forbiden by law and create an opportunity for these handful to defamate my product and induce infringement. perhaps he can expect first hand experiences from legitimate sources instead of reponses made by those who have appropiated the subject as their own while they admit they have no interest in it and have expresssed an interest in the demise of my project when they take every opportunity to insist my response to the poking should serve as a means to hurt sales and then reccomend people should stay away from my product.

    Mr Flanigan the way you validate history is with proof and your trajectory in photography and opinions must be backed by the wonderful results you obtained therfore
    I look forward to seeing the magnificent imagery you have obtained thru the advice you give others and that otherwise you could limit your agressive and contentious position to the place you deserve in this community as a result of your efforts because a lot of people have already confirmed that older rangefinders were not as effective as the Littman and unless you can prove otherwise i suggest you give it a rest.

    People posting misrepresentations about our product create an imposition for me to have to respond. If you dont like my writting skills Know i write to the best of my ability and the law orders that I am allowed to dictate the terms under which I offer my services and members can not utilize the leverage of discredit to poke me into either satisfying their curiosity or that would validate inducement of competition by others..

    An objective analisis is definitely required but when I have attempted to adress the tech issues they pick up the remote and bring up the history channel.
    calibration alone can not do the job of a cam calibration alone is the aproach of fiddlers

    Mr flanigan if you admit there is a lack of information in regards to my project I can trace sufficient blame back to you by your ensuing poking and engaging me on non event distractions and deliberately interferring with my schedule preventing me from updating my site. you do this to me every time.




    The first L45s 1 rf outperformed any rangefinder made before 2002 the new one outperforms my older ones

    By the way we ship worldwide to everyone who does not engage in these interferances. that is a lot of people. Most people
    "
    Many folks really probably would just like know the sequence of operation for shooting an image with your camera"
    I agree and i have waited 3 years for you to stop breathing down the necks of everyone who could and is entitled to answer while you create dissent out of admitted resentment and whet i tell those folks is that there shall be a website which will offer a chatroom for aLittman owners where they can be free to exchange their views without being attacked for owning a better camera.
     
  15. "a lot of people have already confirmed that older rangefinders were not as effective as the Littman and unless you can prove otherwise i suggest you give it a rest".

    As far as I am aware the so called 'Littman Rangefinder' is a Polaroid design dating from 1960. The parallax corrected single brightline window found in this rangefinder camera is unique to the Polaroid 110B.
    To call it a 'Littman' rangefinder is an absurdity. To steal anothers design and call it your own is ridiculous.
     
  16. Why not just post the same quote you have on your site admitting you dont call your cameras your own because you simply copy others peoples ideas/ namely mine?
    ".... A camera maker that simply copies others' idea has no right to call itself an original maker in the first place." -Mr. Maitani, creator of the OM photographic system



    ".......Precisely why my camera remains a Polaroid" -Razzledog.

    Photo.net is responsible for enabling defamation as a means of solicitation it instructs everyone should abstain from.

    The Littman rangefinder utilizes a mdified Polaroid rangefinder. it is legal to make an improvement to an existing product or part.

    To publicly insist this is not the case as a means to impede sales is defamatory.
     
  17. William, how nice you have been given a keyboard with punctuation buttons.

    I collect all things Polaroid and have done so for many years.
    Unfortunately I do not have a web site, but I do have a Littman amongst my collection, acquired for its novelty value.

    Any so called 'defamation' of your good self emanates from your very
    own words. Can I possibly ship you a copy of 'Be your own PR Man'
    by Michael Bland?

    It may help.
     



  18. Every Polaroid OEM manufacturer is obligated by contract to use his own name when making a product utilizing Polaroid components, To call it a Polaroid would somewhat obligate Polaroid toward the consumer and there is not a single screw / rivet part or measurement or configuration in my product which retains the original design therefore The naming is justified by the new USE/ utility and we are obligated to re name it and of course entitled because the old one is appreciated but the enhanced version is better .
    And even if there were no modifications to any finder the utility claims protect our product in other ways.

    When I introduced the correction of the parallelism issue in folders
    which corrects any possible scenario you insisted everyone better stay away save the money as to avoid the whole infringement scenario
    when neither the camera problem or the infringement would be a scenario for one who bought it.
    Deliberately misrepresenting facts as to harm someone's business is considered defamatory. You have only posted twice in this website and both times what you have posted is substantially false .

    I will gladly read a book and I have a lot to improve , not everyone is as proficient in writing skills and or public relations.

    I can understand that some people expect that if they give someone their business they are entitled to patronize you"The client is always right". but I offer a unique product rated as the most responsive in history for its use and have 3 patents on it and literal no time to update my own website and when a few expect me to behave as if a host at a Disney theme park while they are throwing all sorts of banana peels at my feet to make me trip and if I don't then they send me to read books.No thanks the premise is the other way around I have 3 patents and in a few days 4 which basically say it is my way or the highway . That was the premises from day 1 but I have provided an objective analysis which suffices for the best in the profession So I will read books when I have some time after I complete the work that keeps me busy, update my site, see my family for the first time in three years or a friend or have the time to use the Littman as it was created for my own use.The public relations I can offer my clients is to make a better camera for them that is all I can offer at this point. the research has obligated me to allocate time I did not have and this website and"consumers" which expect to pin their brand of expectancies on me while they see im stretched to the limit on behalf of my clients they resort to raising the bar with insensitive expectancies. No thanks.

    Perhaps when you see that someone is making an extraordinary effort to improve something and is unable to be as rested, have a regular schedule and the normality of a 9-5 job perhaps you can abstain from further unrealistic impositions of writing skills , public relations typography etc .I can consider such book and have no doubt that improvement is required mainly to the perception that people have the right to pose impositions upon me in excess of the services or availability of my time which I can offer. When that is addressed in the near future none of this will have to be a burden on my schedule and you will see how quick things change for the better. Im all for improvement and went on to improve something beyond anyone's expectations and do not need to find myself pleading with anyone reminding them that the law insist they are not entitled to pose impositions upon me outside the terms I choose to offer in my business . that would be the case in a simple private communication and more so when it is public besides I dont need it and i dont welcome it nor do I accept it under any circumstance..

    The fact is that for the last 7 years the best photographers have treated me with the utmost respect, rolled out the red carpet and treated me weith praise and gratitude which I did not expect or require but it has been the way I have been treated by talented professionals all my life and I do not see where people who make impositions which exceed what I can or am willing to offer feel they are reasonable or that they are respecting me.

    You cant hope to hire a cab that is busy and if you get mad that's unreasonable. you cant start a cab company if the city has licensed just one company so therefore you realize it is you that has to be patient and wait or you walk.

    History is filled with examples of people who thought of as great PR men and most people consider them nothing but embellishers. I am considered to have no public relation skills and have placed my product at the very top of the list by its own merit that is twice as valuable and most genuine. The right people really appreciate it as I have verified time and time again. I certainly wish it would have been easier but Im not one to dwell on the past for too long nor Basque in the glory of Novelty for too long and by the time the L45sVI is recognized the first L45sVII will be on its way to someone appreciative and the rest will miss out.
    Perhaps big corporations can afford public relations specialists to address instances when people start making a bunch of false statements which cause harm to the business> I certainly cant and cant afford not to clarify the falsehoods otherwise people assume those who are allowed to retain a podium are allowed to have the last word based on first hand experience or are telling the truth. that has not been the case here on this website and has obligated me in excess of my abilities .No small business could withstand the ensuing poking and no matter how you look at it these amount to nothing more than instances that I should be more submissive or surrender as I have been told. I am a hard worker. I'm a decent person and right now I can not choose my priorities I have to concentrate on my work .It takes all my time and energy everything else is on hold until further notice and has been that way for 3 years and as that is 100% the truth everyone making impositions which exceed such reality as to make me appear unreasonable is a liar.


    Novelty is like dating for those who do not like commitmenet wears off fas tlike a honeymoon on the other hand most of my clients are not looking for fireworks and glitter are are not encouraged by Novelty nor discouraged by it . My interest is to dedicate my efforts towards those who are apreciative of the novelty my product can offer their work the novelty which counts is the novelty my product can offer their work and as time goes on the bond grows stronger, they are commited to their work just as much as I am to mine. thats love and it makes everything else which is proposed to me look very unapealing.

    I didnt spend 10 years of my life to create a camera so it would collect dust. Why dont you sell the camera to someone who can benefit from its use .
    I do not have you in my list of clients
     
  19. Furthermore and most important when you recommended that everyone should abstain from the L45s VI to avoid the scenario if you wanted to tell the truth you could have said"I acquire things and then collect them therefore I would not benefit from this utility improvement for which I see no benefit for my purpose.perhaps you could consider being a little bit less selfish and if you acquire all things Polaroid for your collection that doesn't give you the right to impose I should re label my approach so my camera better fits your Collecting categorization nor to insist because you use your camera very little and it doesn't have a problem others should refrain from obtaining a proven and necessary improvement.



    After your comment I had a bunch of major NYC photographers who required to see the improvement before ordering this has caused a lot of delays and a substantial financial loss and they were lucky to have gotten the chance to see for themselves after which a few made comments which amount to wanting to meet you in person to let you acquire what amounted to a serious dose of knuckle sandwich and some words outside what can be posted here!

    A lot of times those who say they acquire things/ collect them have little consideration for the effort which went into making them possible .

    When you made such insensitive suggestion last time around perhaps you were unaware of the difficulties and time it took to get your front standard to be within expected range and that you would move to suggest that a way to avoid such problem should be avoided.

    If you were not a collector but an avid pro who had chosen it for most his work you would have wanted to know that you would not be without a camera for an extended period of time or have a considerable expenditure in repairs if there was a way to resolve the issue instantly and with results which exceeded what was previously possible.and that perfect parallelism could result in a camera that was way more effective to begin with then:

    I believe you owe the photographic community a genuine apology for such selfishness
     
  20. Another falsehood is that brightline projection itself is not unique to the Polaroid 100b as is similar in a leica a graflex xl a 600 se a 180 etc. your comments are the absurdity on the other hand coupled parallax 4x5 camera is unique to the Littman and to other cameras that will sport it when I introduce them or grant licence, and this convenience has been proven very useful and effective and there is a Littman which will be available soon that does not utilize britelines as a means of cropping

    Another false/ absurdity in your comment has to do with the fact that the britelines which provide and relate to only the cropping have nothing to do with the rangefinder itself which is the centerspot and regarding the Polaroid name and its use and the discontinuation of films like 665 as I said these threads are enough of a burden on Polaroid .
    I made such refrence and there is already a new thread a few moments later proving my point.

    Im not going to answer these guys question as it may be perceived as a means of plugging my camera . but the issue is real and a real concern and Im not going to use the Polaroid name for what they made decades ago for the reasons stated.
    http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00JZsc&tag=
     
  21. I have received several emails enquiring as to the degree of involvement by a user if the new struts would ever need adjustment.
    the answer is; it takes about 5 minutes per side and it is very easy and 100% accurate
    The clarification is posted at the bottom of the following page on the posting dated january 15th

    http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00IxgD&tag=
     
  22. The giving of a 'Knuckle Sandwich' by a bunch of NYC photographers indicates one should seek better company.....I would welcome a Littman Users Forum, perhaps it could be linked to the Ebay Feedback Forum.

    That`s no falsehood.
     
  23. Sure is an absolute falsehood to interfere with someone's ability to perform their work, discredit their improvements with falsehoods here and when I cant find the time to even attend to clerical things like paying for auctions on time or completing my work that is used to create further discredit.



    My assistant at work is a carrier for the sups and they have a very busy holyday schedule so I was without help for the longest time plus
    having to deal with being attacked for my struts improvements .

    that thread was started to actually impede the auctions introducing the improvement and raised doubt unfairly

    Some people take pride in throwing banana peels at your feet and accuse of being clumsy and it appears that there are books that can help you overcome such intentional harm.

    In my opinion the entire library of congress, the Bible, Koran, Talmud , and every self help book written to date could not help anyone deal better with such a situation.

    It is true as you can see that these instances are having a harmful effect on my ability to do my work we have just been given one example and Kelly reminded of a lack of information to which I responded that these instances are the cause of the problem therefore as this is proof that membership is being abused as a means to make unfair impositions on our business I would say it is tie for a more truthful scenario which would be that we are able to present things at the pace we are able and that all the banana peels that have been thrown at our feet as to impede our rights in the past not be used to create further discredit.

    Thank you.
     
  24. I was not aware one should apologise for owning a Littman? If that`s the case, then I do.
     
  25. That was not that cute and most inconsiderate.
    You see you have this" all things Polaroid collection" and you have completed the collection for a few grand.

    All of a sudden you learn that your collection is now incomplete and to complete it you would have to spend 5G which you insist you would rather save . On top of that it appears that on top of the expenditure these novelties you have sought to acquire and collect do not fit your display labeling as well as you wish.

    So what do you do?
    Join photo.net and on your first post you tell everyone to save the 5 g as to avoid the whole scenario. ensure you don't have to spend money you don't wish to spend to just collect it and you may even raise the value of your procession if no one buys the new model as you suggest and you may get to better fit your collecting categorization which is the reason you insist you acquired it in the first place and then you can also get some extra mileage and get some exposure out of it.
    For your purposes it was a brilliant move. for everyone with photography in mind it is perceived otherwise.

    This is a website which has the purpose of furthering photography.
    People who read it are interested in responses that would be of assistance to taking better pictures. If there was any use in discussing the benefits of a camera on such website it would have to be intended towards the utility of a camera for picture taking.

    The editor in chief of this website has raised the bar and created a lot of hope by insisting that responses that help others take better picture are the most useful.

    Discouraging those who would consider it for its utility ( photographers qualify under such category) because one does not care to use the camera to take pictures as the main purpose and makes a dedicated effort to prevent those who do from benefiting from its convenience.and insists has acquired it because of novelty and collecting interests is not something which the photographic community applauds.

    I do not believe anyone thinks an apology is worth much unless it is genuine and not something one" should" do but something which one does out of contrition.
    Your response speaks for itself.

    Now I have made several cameras for collectors which are design models as I value aesthetics as an avenue of expression as well.

    I cannot help if someone chooses to acquire something to collect it but the discussion about the utility of the new L45s VI struts was aimed strictly as to whether such improvement would offer a benefit to the photographic community for the purposes of taking pictures. better pictures make it a better camera.

    Your response as to discourage others is not new to me, when I first started the project and The L45s proved a major benefit to creative photographers some went on to ask for assurances that I would not make one for their competitors and continued to express disappointment the more the public embraced the camera.

    I take that as a compliment and as the biggest proof of the value of my camera, such response is only human as everyone tends to be a little protective of the things they love.

    Such people( some of the most respected in photography throughout the last 4 decades) gave me the strength to persevere and overcome these selfishness diatribes . They might have proffered to have the L45s remain as their best kept secret but as they are not selfish went on to share and volunteer assurances that this little camera had brought them more joy than most cameras they have owned.

    The photographic community who knows a photographer is not a walking poster boy for a camera realized that such responses praising the Littman ( none of which were paid advertisements or compensated in any way ) Such responses across the board proved the L45s had truly created a fork in the road in large format photography in what regards to utility and convenience / responsiveness/ ease of use.

    I created it for my own use and after a few days I felt selfish and called my friends and offered to share it with them.

    When these people assured me it was the smartest thing they had seen in a long time and other similar responses I went on to invest the effort to perfect it.

    When it was sufficiently reliable I decided it was time to share it with the general public and I have dedicated all of my time to making it better so everyone who trusted me would receive such effort as a means of gratitude.

    Bruce Weber put it quite clearly when he was interviewed by American PHOTO in 2001" you have to have the willingness to work around it".

    What this means is that photographers who are used to smaller formats and their ease of use can come to the point in which they wish to have small format convenience and LF quality but while The L45s may be the most responsive Lifer it is not as convenient as would be lets say a Lexica which fits in the palm of your hand and once you realize it is the closest thing which would allow you to have the best of both worlds , there is still a gap that has to be bridged. It gets you closest to where you want to go but you have to have the willingness to invest the personal effort .

    How much effort? Slightly more than with smaller formats and much less than with Large format cameras.

    The best Tennis racquet is of no use to someone who does not have the willingness to chase the ball in the first place.

    Anyone can certainly buy anything but in my opinion and those volunteered by my clients That you own it only after you invest the effort to bridge that gap, you may have one in your procession but I don't feel as if you own it.

    I'm beginning to come to the realization that it is not a course in public relations which is suggested as something I require in order to sell a camera but by the impositions made by some in these threads and their admitted motivation I would require taking a course in forensic psychology and as I have expressed I do not feel it is worth it. With all due respect my efforts are dedicated to photography and to those who wish to take better pictures and have the willingness to do what it takes to get from point a to point be.

    I have benefited from the use of better cameras and can prove it and therefore I can truly justify what I assert, the same is assured by my renowned clients who have tried my product and whatever else has been made and you have all been constantly asked to disregard all that and take the word of someone who assures he has not obtained better results from the use of any camera but if you bought his your work would improve as nothing beats his camera, and that he does not care why you buy it or what for.

    After all if he did not obtain any benefit from the use of one equipment over another and has to spend every day from 9-5 telling everyone to choose one camera over another when he didn't make it as a store manager and then shows up here to tell you to choose his and he doesn't care why you buy it I can understand that to some
    people money is money and why the approaches and responses offered here are in juxtaposition. And if he cant obtain a better result from one to another then perhaps he should abstain from representing otherwise and avoid everyone have to endure these fiascos because he moves to change the story the minute money is brought into the equation.

    It is the same if you admit don't benefit from the acquisition of different cameras when purchasing them/ that they have not been an aid to improve your work then you are obligated to not change the story and engage everyone contentiously because you sell them.



    The best camera can only do so much. I have done more than was expected of anyone to improve it, now I wish to see it is put to good use. and as to some people who believe their dollar is worth more than everyone else's I say please hold on to it because letting it out of your hand would not be wise . and to those who have the sensitivity applicable to mergers and acquisitions I remind them that people ask about cameras because they want to use them and someone who just wants to collect them is morally obligated to disclose that when telling others to avoid the whole scenario and not impose that I should have to confront them to expose the facts two months after they discouraged everyone unfairly as I have better things to do with my time and so does everyone else Thanks.

    What a long post!
    yes unfortunatelly it takes very little effort to destroy something and a huge effort to put it back together.

    I was surprised to learn that some of the cowards who sponsored the 911 attack owned stock in American companies and a lot of real estate in our city just to speculate and make money. It took them less than an hour to level the towers and though the whole community has joined to try to rebuild 6 years have gone by and nothing has happened.

    I am determined not to allow the same thing happen to my project and so are those interested in its utility as a photographic tool.

     
  26. I could have also offered the short version response to"I was not aware one should apologies for owning a Littman? If that`s the case, then I do."

    The fact is that those who have utilized this website to advertise products and services using force and because the strength of the arguments offered in the objective analysis discussions does not benefit them have basically asked everyone who has preferred my product and insists it outperforms others to apologize for owning it and for preferring it . Their supporters have done the same and chased my clients away .


    I do not feel someone should apologize for owning it and have had to divert a lot of valuable time to combat such unfairness.
     
  27. To compare a camera`s demise to 911 is an incredible statement for anyone to make.
     
  28. Certainly; first of all because there will be no demise of the camera despite your efforts and second because the comparison was not made to an actual event but relating to the selfishness of the perpetrators which may not be equal in magnitude but as you are again insisting on a demise which is never going to happen do not concern yourself with comparisons and know your actions are sufficiently deplorable by themselves.
     
  29. I have done nothing sir....the demons are inside your own head. You insist that no one use PN as an advertising medium for their own product, but ninety five percent of the content here is yours.
     

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