Discussion in 'Large Format' started by thomas_diekwisch|1, Jul 13, 2003.
Linhof's web site appears to be down for months already. Anybody
knows anything more about it?
seems to work fine
Works fine. But if you are looking for literature, since you are in the US, it is quicker to
request it directly from us.
Linhof forwards all US literature requests or dealer listings to HP Marketing.
Thanks Frank. You are right on three accounts: on the site, on the cameras, and on Bob's psychology...
I also have noticed a dearth of Linhof info. Recently, I tried to find out the weight of a 5x7 Kardan GTL, and couldn't find it anywhere. And that's some pretty basic info. Of course it is possible that a marketing decision was made not to broadcast the weight. But from my point of view it appears to be a failure in dissemination of info.
" I tried to find out the weight of a 5x7 Kardan GTL, and couldn't find it anywhere"
Nonsense. Just ask. 19.8 Lbs without lensboard.
" The Linhof site was built during the 4.0 browser wars between Netscape and Explorer,
and it uses some non-standard code that fails in your browser"
I use Safari as my main browser as well as Netscape 7 and Explorer, Mozilla and Omni. All
access their server without a problem
Don't worry, the Linhof web site doesn't contain any particularly useful information anyhow. It's a shame that both Linhof and their U.S. distributor are stuck in the dark ages of marketing, where people used to mail letters in asking for information and then a week or two or six later they received the information they wanted by mail in the form of brochures. For some unknown reason both Linhof and their U.S. distributor have yet to figure out that people now expect to see that kind of information on a web site. Any day now I expect to see Linhof or their distributor offer a free toaster to anyone who buys a camera.
" It's a shame that both Linhof and their U.S. distributor"
Making snide comments is easy.
But Linhof has lots of distributors, all over the world. It is not just the factory and HP
"Belgium and Netherlands JUPITER Handelsmaatschappij BVBA, Denmark PHOTOGRAFICA
APS Classic Cameras, Finland FOTOTEKNISET OY, Greece SKIADOPOULOS LTD., United
Kingdom LINHOF & STUDIO LTD. Image House, Italy GRUPPO BP S.R.L., Canary Islands
António VELA MURILLO, Luxembourg Opto Technical S.A., Austria FOTO VIDEO KÜCHER,
KÖBERL Karl Heinz, ING. LOHO WOLFGANG GMBH, ORATOR FOTO GMBH, SCHNEIDER &
TISCHER, Portugal COMERCIALFOTO LDA, Sweden DITO PhotoProffs AB, Spain CIMAT FOTO
S.A. Reparatur / Repair ServiceI RED, GUS-States/EXPORTEUR WEDEL MARKETING SALES
CONSULTING, Iceland BECO, Lettland AO Sekvence Ltd., Malta O & V PHOTOGRAPHIC,
Norway Photo Quality Brands/ Click A/S, Poland EWA Zastawnik, Foto SIEDEM (7),
Switzerland LEICA Cameras, Slowakia MOONLIGHT s.s.r.o., Slovenia CUMULUS LESCE
D.O.O.PRO FOTO CENTER Repair Service:FOTO MEHANIKA, Czech Republic STUDIO
MOONLIGHT EWI CS spol.s.r.o., Turkey GANTENBEIN TICARET, Hungary STUDIO LINE
FOTOTECH NIKA, TRIPONT GmbH, Cyprus MANGOIAN BROS. LTD. AFRICA South Africa CAS
CAMERA CENTRE (PTY.)Ltd. ASIA China VR Zhou Fred, SHRIRO Pacific Ltd., India EASTERN
PHOTOGRAPHIC CO., Israel A. BERNER & SONS Ltd., Japan SHRIRO Trading Co. Ltd., Korea
HENRY PHOTOS CORP., Malaysia SHRIRO (MALAYSIA) SDN. BHD., Singapore SHRIRO
(SINGAPORE) PTE. LTD., Taiwan GRAND CHIANG CO., LTD. Thailand NIKS (THAILAND)
CO.,LTD., NORTH AMERICA Canada, KINDERMANN INC. USA HP MARKETING CORP., Repair
Service:Marfekx Service Corp. CENTRAL AMERICA Mexico Cia. Importadora Fotografica,
SOUTH AMERICA Brasil ArvaMex Comercio Exterior Ltda, AUSTRALIA MAINLINE
Photographics Pty. Ltd., NEWZEALAND H.E. PERRY Ltd.
You are welcome to contact the distributor in your country for literature or support.
All of us can get the brochures you need to you quickly and all of us are happy to answer
your questions directly.
But apparently you prefer less personal contact.
That is your choice.
Who said that the person posing the question was using an old or new browser?
The only people who have mentioned browsers are me and people other then Thomas.
I am happy that you, as a one man shop, was able to close a big sale for a manufacturer of
consumer sporting goods.
But you should take the time to visit us, or some other distributors that you just named,
we are far, far smaller then you seem to think we are.
And we don't (for most of us) sell to the end user. We sell to camera stores. We do our
best to answer users qustions directly - so do the other companies.
One problem with answering questions is that answers result in further questions.
Answering all of the questions directly, in one free call, gets all of the questions at the
Thanks for your rapid response to my 5x7 weight question. If it had been a serious issue for me, rather than curiousity, I would have asked you.
However, my question remains a good example of basic info unavailable from the HPMarketing and Linhof websites.
Frank - Many of us don't care what the web site looks like, Linhof and HP Marketing don't have to win any design awards for their web sites. It's just a question in my mind of adding some useful information to existing web sites, which a high school student could be hired at minimum wage to do in a day or two depending on how much information was added. I'm not familiar with most of the other camera manufacturers' web sites you mention but I've been on the Ebony web site a lot lately. It may not look real pretty but it's a fount of useful information about their cameras. It has extensive detailed specs about all of their cameras, information about the available accessories, reviews and links to reviews of their cameras, a list of retailers all over the world with contact information, and even a user's guide (much like an owners manual). It's that kind of thing, which Bob and I guess Linhof for some reason resist, that I was talking about, not necessarily a web site that's going to win awards from the Graphic Arts Association.
Frank, I think the lf community's fervent enthusiasm is obscuring your understanding of just how tiny the market for lf actually is. Anyway you slice it, be it total sales or total shooters, it is an incredibly small market. I sincerely doubt that even the world's biggest dealer sells 400 cameras a year. And it is as inelastic a segment as to nearly not warrant marketing.<p>As an example, one experienced gentleman makes all of the wonderfully smooth Toyo film holders. I doubt they'll train another when he ceases to practice his craft.
Jarrod, I think you are right.
Jarrod - The issue isn't whether large format manufacturers should incur the expense of building and maintaining a web site. They already have done that. The issue is just the content of the web site. Putting information on an existing web site is child's play. Hand a minimum wage high school student some of the brochures that Bob thinks people should have to call or write to get and let him or her start entering their content on the web site. Apart from anything else, it surely is more cost effective to post the information on a web site rather than keeping someone on the payroll occupied with answering the phone, finding and packaging brochures, mailing brochures, etc. But regardless of that, nobody is suggesting that large format manufacturers should engage in expensive new marketing plans, just post information to web sites they already have.
P.S. Good grief Bob, do you really think potential customers should have to call you to find out something as basic as the weight of one of the cameras you sell?
"do you really think potential customers should have to call you to find out something as
basic as the weight of one of the cameras you sell?"
Yes. When you tell someone that the weight is 19+ lbs less lensboard and lens there
frequently are more questions that that answer inspires. For instance "how do you mount
it to a tripod? Is the head that should be used included? Why is it so heavy?"
It is much faster to answer all of the questions on the phone.
Suppose, for the sake of a logic exercise, that there was an infinite number of legitimate questions that a customer could have about your wares. By your decreed paradigm, it wouldn't make sense to divulge any information about the product-since there could always be an unanswered question after said disclosures which would necessitate your personal assistance. Heck, by your same logic, why do you even disclose that there are particular models to choose from? You're just giving them incomplete information which will require more...ad infinitum.
"We sell stuff: Call us for more information."
""We sell stuff: Call us for more information.""
No, we sell to camera stores. They sell stuff to consumers - pro or amateur.
We support users and potential users by answering questions, referring consumers to
dealers that can help them to "buy stuff", exhibiting the equipment at shows,
demonstrating equipment at shows, supplying literature.
To the consumer we don't "We sell stuff:" We supply them with information.
In fact not one of our 20+ sales reps that do ""We sell stuff: " even frequents these boards.
They have a full time job to sell stuff.
They refer questions to us to help them and their dealers ""We sell stuff"
Now other companies might work differently. They may be direct marketers who do "sell
stuff" to the end user. Some of them are posters here.
But we, like most of the other distributors - Bogen, BKA, Omega/Satter, Argraph, RTS,
Mamiya, Nikon, Canon, Hasselblad, Pentax, Minolta, Dot Line, etc. sell to camera stores or
other retailers. Not to the end user.
Some of us just put more effort in to answering user and dealer questions.
This is especially helpful in our case as we represent some companies who are very old for
a photographic company and have made many different cameras over those years. In the
case of Linhof they are more then 110 years old and have made almost as many camera
versions as their age.
After all, how many of you want to know what a Linhof Rerotronica was? Or the
Quadrophot 45? Or the Infomat?
These are all products from Linhof in the 1970's. What is a simple question for you may
never have been asked. Or, for your application, the answer is different, or there may be a
Another case would be camming requirement. While the cam may be interchangeable the
direcections for what has to be sent in for cameras differ. And then there are the questions
about why? And then there are people who feel they have a better way.
It is far easier from our perspective to KNOW that the answers are direct to the question
and that the person asking the question fully understands the answer.
How many times do you browse a FAQ and don't find your answer because the question
you have is phrased differently? Or that there are multiple answers depending on who
answered the question?
Frequently when someone posts an incorrect or misleading response we get calls or emails
asking if the answer is correct. Not only do we get them directly we get them forwarded to
handle from the factory when someone asks them.
If someone has a question it is faster, more direct and more accurate to simply make a
free call then to do it any other way.
So sorry we ""We sell stuff:" We do our best to answer your questions regarding any of our
22 product lines in the photo industry. We do the same for our products that are sold in
the luggage industry, the equistrian industry, the sanitary supplies industry and - soon -
in the automotive suppies industry.
"We sell the stuff to the sellers who sell the stuff to you. Call or write for more information."<P>Do what you will to make your distributorship as profitable as possible, but from the outside looking in it would seem that the methedology you employ is neither cost effective nor designed to propogate sales.<P>And I tip my hat to your clearly superior understanding of logic.
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