Lighting Grids

Hi All,

 

I was looking into getting the LiteMod™ Snoot (20o beam spread) for my Alien Bee B800. I intend to use this for portrait and product photography.

 

However, I already have the Buff stripbox grid (40o beam), a 22” beauty dish grid (30o beam), a honeycomb grid set for my standard 7” reflector (10o, 20o , 30o, 40o beam spread).

 

Would the snoot just be a redundancy or would it offer something the other modifiers don’t?

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

You already have a 20deg honeycomb grid, why not just use that. I see little difference between a snoot, especially long ones, and honeycomb grids. But my snoots have always been home-made from blackwrap. You could see the effect by making a snoot from blackwrap or black construction paper, and comparing it to a honeycomb grid of similar spread.

I agree with Charles, a roll of cinefoil has so many uses. I use it for flags, snoots, blacking out windows, gaffer to soft boxes to control an edge of light, can punch holes in it for a cuculoris. to throw patterns on the bg. As a snoot the opening size is adjustable. I have top hats for my continuous lights that have a second ring that is smaller that will swing over the opening, but with cinefoil, any size. I use a pair of clamps that come with a connection to place it on reflectors for bg lights so I don't need a large free standing flag and the cinefoil is virtually weightless. Can crimp the edges to add stiffining. The difference between a snoot and a honeycomb grid can be the edge fall off. Aim one at the wall and take a shot of it, then compare. The Honeycomb should have a slower transition. How can that be used? Once had to position a back light on the R side of bg but wanted that bg side darker. Placed the hot spot behind subjects head and allowed the fall off to hit the bg on the side the light was on. Result, brighter bg further away than closer to the light. I recommend shooting all your modifiers against a wall to learn to "see" what it throws out.

I bought a used monolight that came with a snoot and grid-cap. The grid-cap was great for throwing leopard spots all over the subject. As a grid it was freaking useless!

 

The snoot wasn't much better to be honest. What idiot manufacturer leaves the inside of a snoot as polished metal? A spray of matt black paint sorted the snoot, but the grid is still only useful as a pen holder.

Joe, I have a reversable fabric snoot for my speed light. One side black, the other silver. The silver throws out the max light out of the snoot. I have used it for a 160 foot round trip bounce from near the rear of a Cathedral bouncing off the front wall with the flash head zoomed out to 200 mm. With an 80 ws speed light needed every photon of light I could get on the subject. In studio, when using a snoot, the top hats or cinefoil snoots are always black inside. I have plenty of power there and short distances. Fortunately, my Einsteins and posters AB"s will dial down to 2.5 ws.

I can see how the reflective wrap you describe can help with the throw of a speedlight Bob.

 

The issue with a reflective-inside snoot in the studio is that it's of little use as a tight spot. The reflective rim spills light well beyond the limits of its supposed lighting angle.

 

OK, there are times when you want a softer edge falloff, but it's easier to soften a hard edge - using silver foil or a simple white card snoot - than it is to control spill you don't want.

 

Incidentally, there are fresnels you can attach to a speedlight to get a much tighter beam. The supposed 105 or 180mm "zoom" coverage of some speedlights is pure BS. Zooming a speedlight barely alters its guide number from one end to the other IME.

Edited June 9, 2017 by rodeo_joe|1

"Would the snoot just be a redundancy or would it offer something the other modifiers don’t?"

 

- I don't think this has been answered fully, looking back over the replies so far.

 

A snoot gives you a small circular spot effect; useful as a kicker or hair light for example. It allows glancing backlighting without undue flare spilling into the camera lens.

 

OTOH, a grid on a softbox, octa or whatever just limits the area that the 'box covers. The area of light will still be at least as large as the source. And as I discovered, you can't put a hard light directly through a grid without getting a mottled effect.

 

In summary: The uses of a grid and a snoot are almost entirely different.

 

Do you need a fixed snoot rather than a simple tube of foil though? Well, if you do a lot of portraits and regularly use a hairlight, then the fixed snoot might be very convenient and get a lot of use. If not, then a roll of cinefoil is much more flexible in its uses.

Thanks everyone. I'll go with a roll of cinefoil. You just saved me $50!

$50 saved for the snoot, but keep in mind the other uses. And remember it's reuseable. Fold it after use and save for future other uses. For kickers, hair lights, I prefer strip boxes. 2 used as kickers on my profile photo. I rarely hang over and behind, kinda 90's look like a round light puddle on bg.

bob_bill, thanks for the reminder that blackwrap is sold as Cinefoil. Been using it so long that I forgot the brand name ;-)

 

It's about the handiest thing I ever found for my studio work, maybe second behind grip heads ;-)

Charles, thanks for years ago directing me to those grip heads. It's like tinker toys with photo gear. Just keeping in mind tighty righty. I keep reusing my cinefoil til it tears. Had lost the original box in my garage studio but found it when I relocated from CA to FL. I had put some on an old empty roll of plastic wrap so I could keep it in my location case so it sufficed while I couldn't find the main roll. Do you reuse your gaffer's tape also? It's all over my light stands so when I need some to hold down the edge of shiny board or to make the subject's mark, there's always some handy.

And as I discovered, you can't put a hard light directly through a grid without getting a mottled effect.

Joe, the AB reflector covered with the 7" grids doesn't produce mottling. Here's a 10 degree, where op can see the fall off also, and a 40 degree. Used gaffer tape to get focus. Was shot on pure white seamless and is sharp enough to see the texture of the tape.

40 degree grid

 

OK. I guess it depends on the design of the grid and reflector.

 

I wouldn't call a 7" reflector at the distance a grid is normally placed a particularly hard source though. I was thinking particularly about a snoot with a honeycomb grid cap. The snoot places the grid at a considerable distance from the flash-tube/modelling lamp and thereby hardens the light much more before it hits the grid. Believe me, the result is not pretty.

OK. I guess it depends on the design of the grid and reflector.

 

I wouldn't call a 7" reflector at the distance a grid is normally placed a particularly hard source though. I was thinking particularly about a snoot with a honeycomb grid cap. The snoot places the grid at a considerable distance from the flash-tube/modelling lamp and thereby hardens the light much more before it hits the grid. Believe me, the result is not pretty.

 

As always, the farther from the source and closer to subject, the harder edge the shadows will have.

Joe, the 7" reflector that is made for the AB grids holds the grids about 4" from the light. The reflector is shaped to accept the grids. I just didn't want poster to think they would not work with his AB's without a pattern. I don't own a commercial snoot and have never tried using them with mine fashioned from cinefoil. The top hats for my continuous lights aren't much longer but aren't designed to take a grid. The light coming through the fresnel is harder than that from a bare flash tube. I wonder if the solution is locating the grid at the light end of the snoot. I believe that can be done with the AB light mod inserting the grid in the reflector than attaching the snoot. I don't have it, I just attach barn doors to a 7" reflector and can use the grid snapped into the reflector in that configuration. Gells can be clothes pinned to the barn doors as can cinefoil flags. Or a cinefoil snoot can be fitted to a reflector as mentioned above. Oh, I like to keep the hole that allows an umbrella shaft to go through the reflector on the top to help in the escape of heat. Never tested to see how much difference it makes, but I have fried the pull tabs off some of the grids so they get pretty hot with the modeling lamps on and popping like crazy.

"I have fried the pull tabs off some of the grids so they get pretty hot with the modeling lamps on and popping like crazy."

 

Yes, I've seen gaffer or masking tape absolutely welded onto reflectors by heat. It's not pretty and sometimes smells too!

 

That's one drawback of cinefoil snoots, you need to be careful not to put tape directly on the flash or reflector. Better to shape the foil around the reflector and only apply tape to the foil.

Haven't tried it on lights, but there is a solid aluminum duct tape with a heat resistant adhesive. I put it over leaky joints in a steel quonset several years ago. With clear skies, and summer temps to 105, that metal gets hot enough to fry eggs. Still hanging tight.

Joe, for cinefoil and gels, I like wooden clothes pins- c47's (Charles, another handy tool for attaching things or to tighten clothing by taking up slack behind subject)- and bending the gel not up and down but left to right so it is open upwards to allow the heat to escape. Yeah, the pull tabs/ degree markings on the grids just melted on me on a shoot and noticed the smell but had a fog machine going so didn't notice the smoke. I keep a fire extinguisher handy especially for the hot lights. Some times I move them close to lace in my shoots but try to keep an eye on it.

I find wooden clothes pins are not really strong enough to be reliable. But some years back, I found a 10-pack of those black spring clips with orange jaws, in a small size. I have those spring clamps in lots of sizes from clothes pin size to grip head size. Also very handy in my home brewery!

Without wishing to divert this off topic.... I've gotta ask....

 

What use do you find for spring grips in home brewing Charles?

I've brewed in 40 pint bins and in demi-johns and never found a need for clips of any sort. Even when the lid of my brewing bin cracked, I just held a sheet of polythene in place over it with a bunjee strap.

Edited June 12, 2017 by rodeo_joe|1

Charles, are they plastic? How do they handle the heat. Have some but never tried them around heat.

Joe, great shot!

I don't find the snoots to be particular useful in portrait setups. I would recommend the 5 degree grid to add to your collection. It would help to know exactly how you intended to use the snoot. As stated before the snoot will produce a circular hard edge as well as a diminishing circumference the closer it gets to the subject. If that is what you want to achieve then YES get it. Product photography is a different case and a snoot would be useful

[ATTACH=full]1192212[/ATTACH] Without wishing to divert this off topic.... I've gotta ask....

 

What use do you find for spring grips in home brewing Charles?

I've brewed in 40 pint bins and in demi-johns and never found a need for clips of any sort. Even when the lid of my brewing bin cracked, I just held a sheet of polythene in place over it with a bunjee strap.

 

Use 3 or 4 to hold the pump cord to a ceiling strut to keep it off the wet floor. Use 2 or 3 more to hold the hops bag in the 25 gallon kettle. Use a BIG one to hold the garden hose in the top of the hot liquor tank while filling it.

 

I make English Ales from all-grain in 1/2 bbl (16 US Gallon) batch sizes. Have been a home brewer for 30+ years. I can find a use for many unlikely items in my brewery. PM me or email me here cwebster@photo.net to discuss brewing off-line.

 

"Charles, are they plastic? How do they handle the heat. Have some but never tried them around heat."

 

I use strobes in the studio so they aren't exposed to hot-lamp kind of heat, but in the brewery at <212F they do just fine.