Light leak from paterson tank?

Discussion in 'Black and White' started by aye_noppa, Feb 1, 2017.

  1. Hi there,
    I have got a few film cameras, m3 , hasselblad 500 c/m and lately I just got rolleiflex tlr I have always develop films myself and more than half all my films have the same problem with darker tone on both side of the films (negatives) when I scan it look like light leak(lighter) on pictures only a few rolls that doesn't happen so I am wondering are these my bad luck with light leak on cameras or is it from paterson tank?
    from negatives ( these from Rolleiflex)
    Hassellblad 500 c/m
    Nikon fm3a
    I did try to turn of the light(but not completely dark) when I developed but it turn out the same problem.
    I still got a chance to return Rolleiflex if it from camera however if it come from the tank or chemicals then let me know.
    Best Regards
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2017
  2. If you mean the black spots on the edge, that don't go into the frame, those are light leaks when it is on the spool, around the edge of the paper.
    With normal handling, it doesn't get into the frame. If the paper is somewhat loose, and you keep it in the sun too long, it might get into the frame.
    If you mean other leaks, then you have to describe them.
  3. Aye, half of all your films are like that? Can't blame the Rollei for that.
    I have a Paterson with white translucent spirals that does that if I use it without the top cap. It came to me without one and I sent off to a laboratory supply house and bought a rubber bung (slightly too deep, so had to be trimmed off the bottom with a very sharp knife) after which it hasn't happened again.
    Also make sure the seal under the lid is bedded correctly if your model tank has such.
  4. Please describe your agitation regime. There has to be enough agitation to get even development over the width of the negative, but not so much as to cause surge marks.
    Also, how much developer do you use? How far does it come over the top of the reel in the tank? Is there still air in the tank above the developer?
    Stainless steel reels have always been the gold standard for allowing good flow of the developer through the reel to allow uniform development. But even that can be imperfect, the best is dip and dunk on racks, but that's not something one does at hime.
  5. If you mean the dark areas along the edges, then it's what Glen said.
    And in the bottom strip of this shot - - there look to be several round white spots. I'd need to see them larger to be sure, but they could be from bubbles that weren't dislodged during agitation. It's always a good idea to thunk the tank a couple of times after inverting it so you get any bubbles to move off the film.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2017
  6. James G. Dainis

    James G. Dainis Moderator

    Note from moderator: When copying a URL that begins with "https://..." delete the "s" and post "http://..."

    For some reason the https will not become a blue clickable link and people have to copy and paste the URL which can be a bit of a nuisance, Deleting the "s"allows it to become a blue clickable link. I have deleted all of the "s" in the above posts to make things easier.

    Another note from moderator concerning upgrade of With this new version of the "https//..." works fine. You do not have to remover the "s" as I mentioned above. I have gone back and put all the "s" back in the above posts. I hope my work here is done.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
  7. Thank you, James. I wondered what I had been doing wrong.
    BTW this blurb was in a SANS NewsBites:
    Mozilla: Half of Web Traffic is Encrypted
    (January 30, 2017)

    According to Mozilla, the average volume of encrypted, or HTTPS, Internet traffic now exceeds the average volume of unencrypted traffic. While HTTPS does not hide the fact of visiting a website, it makes it more difficult for others to detect what content users are viewing or posting. It also makes it more likely that the content being viewed has not been altered by bad actors. HTTPS has been around for more than 20 years, but has only recently begun to gain purchase as an important security measure for online activity outside of payment card transactions. That said, HTTPS has its share of shortcomings: 200,000 servers are still vulnerable to Heartbleed, and there are cases of criminal obtaining certificates to make fraudulent websites appear legitimate​
    That means more and more sites will start with https: . The programmers might fix the problem; it should be rather simple.
  8. Hi Murray, it wasn't on the edges but
    inside the frames(both sides) usually it
    happens for the whole roll but some
    more and some less and I also
    developed a35mm roll last night that
    didn't have the same problem what I
    did change is
    1. I covered the lid of Paterson tank.
    2. I didn't sink my film up and down to
    mix photoflo at the the end.
    3. I did use stick to agitate but used the
    original technique instead.
    I would guess the problem comes from
    by 2nd one as film is sensitive while I
    was sinking up and down I would wash
    out the the middle part of the film and
    made it lighter than around both side of
    the film.

    And also thanks for the tip of posting!

  9. No, I don`t think the problem comes from the Photoflood stage.
    Well, it could be the issue mentioned by Murray (which BTW, I have never experienced, or at least, I have never noticed it; my procedures could differ).
    Or, just the other mentioned issue about loading under too much light (which may extend beyond the border of the frame, although I cannot see darkening in that borders).
    But I tend to think it could be a processing issue, too. Some of the frames are badly processed, showing darker bands and spots.
    For highest processing quality, one must be flawless with all procedures, keeping times, agitation, temperatures and chemical freshness absolutely perfect. As far as you get away of this perfection, flaws start to appear.
  10. Modified levels for easier evaluation:
  11. I suspect insufficient agitation as well.

    If it was fogging of any sort it would show on the unexposed margins of the film, outside of the frame area. Flare from the camera dark chamber walls would show more adjacent to bright areas of the scene, and is unlikely to be similar in several different cameras.

    Infrared fogging through the plastic tank walls would be more random. I'd actually expect the top and bottom of the roll to be lighter, where the spiral shielded the film from being fogged.

    That leaves developer "drag", which can show as darker or lighter patches on the film depending on how the developer circulates (or not) in the tank. It looks like fresher developer is creeping in from the unexposed edges of the film under the spiral walls to increase the density of adjacent exposed areas.

    I think the clincher is that this happens on 35mm film as well. No backing paper to leak light there! If you look at the M3 shots you can see that the "fogging" follows the pattern of sprocket holes.

    I'd recommend changing your agitation regime. Two inversions of the tank per minute, and leave a sufficient air-space in the tank for bubbles to do their work in moving developer around.

    If that doesn't work get a decent stainless steel tank and spiral(s).
  12. If you're talking about the circles, then it's likely air bells from insufficient agitation or not thunking the tank after agitating. Since there are also drag marks near the air bells, I'd guess insufficient agitation.
    My scheme - invert the tank back and forth during the first 30 seconds - not shaking it, just tipping it over. Thunk to dislodge any bubbles. Agitate by inversion about 4 times every 30 seconds thereafter, thunking after each group of 4. In my experience, using the stick to twirl the reel results in uneven development. Inverting the tank gets the developer to move more surely.
  13. Thanks for guys for all techniques I covered the lid and agitate by inversion the problem has disappeared. by far for these last 2 rolls.
  14. Rotational agitation with a full tank is known to be problematic. Inversion is the standard for a good reason. Glad to hear you solved the problem.
    bethe_fisher likes this.
  15. The Paterson tanks are not light tight without the lid. You can easily check that. The Jobo tanks are much better in this respect. I always put the lid on the tank in the dark, and take it off only for a couple of seconds when pouring in the developer.
  16. I've used Paterson tanks for over 40 years and have never had a light leak from the tank. IMO the only way to get a light leak is to not use the center column and/or the gasket on the older tanks.
  17. I also use the Paterson tanks for over 40 years, and never had a problem, but I don't leave the tank with the film and without the lid stand in daylight. That the tank is not really light tight you can easily check: Put a film into it and leave it without lid for an hour in daylight, and then develop. Or put a small flashlight in the tank, and watch at it in the dark. Then you see the light rims, also when you have put the center column.
    There is no problem if you use them in a reasonable way. I prefer them to the Jobo tanks which are better in this respect.
  18. I have always wondered about light piping, while you are pouring liquids into the tank, but have never known it to be a problem.

    If you use a tank in direct bright sunlight, it might be a problem, so don't do that.

    You could get smaller light bulbs if needed.

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