Let the speculation begin! (pre-PMA week)

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by chip l., Feb 13, 2005.

  1. We are already hearing of some new products (the Epson 4990 scanner and the r1800
    printer). What will PMA hold for Leica?

    I hope that the rumored "tele" Tri Elmar that was mentioned in the pre-R9 digital back web
    chat might see the light of day. Now that the 501CM has gone (along with the Bronica
    SLRs), Leica IMO needs to show that they have some marketing muscle in order to survive.

    The 90mm macro caught many by surprise, so what do you think might happen this week
    or two. Both with Leica and Cosina?
     
  2. "..the 501CM has gone"

    Where was this reported please?
     
  3. A couple of months back. The 503CW is the only "V" system camera still being made now.
     
  4. Tim, I suggest you e-mail Hasselblad to tell them to stop advertising the
    501cw on their website.
     
  5. What is being made versus what is being marketed are two radically different things. A company might stop a lens from being produced; and spend several years selling off the stock still in the pipeline. In oddbaLL items; it can take decades to completely sell off the old stock.
     
  6. I speculate that the Leica reps will be working harder than ever at dissuading everyone
    from buying an R-D1. They might even have a mock-up Digital M.
     
  7. Companies still advertise items; to sell off the old stock. Many times the public has no clue when actual production stopped at all. It does no good to stop advertising; when a bloaded pipe of goods has to be worked off. With the old Kodak Retina Reflex; the production was stopped a year or two before the "offical production stopped notice/news" was released to the public. Even in the late 1970's; Kodak still had Retina Reflex lenses still in stock; advertised in their pro catalogs. Advertising is required to move goods; hiding doesnt work; when goods need to be sold.
     
  8. "dissuading everyone from buying an R-D1"

    you're joking, right?
     
  9. I suspect Leica will update the MP by removing the meter, keeping only the 50, 90, and 135 framelines and call it the "M8", it will be a limited edition model for the "true Leica enthusiast" and will cost only 3200.00 for the body!
     
  10. Ah well. Back to PMA.

    A couple of things I want to see...

    Affordable digital backs for Rolleiflexes (!)

    Scaled down basic range of fast primes for APS sensored DSLRs (especially Nikon) so we have the true equivalent of a 50mm f/1.4 AF (33mm f/1.4 AF) and 24mm f/2 (16mm f/2) and 85mm f/1.4 (56mm f/1.4) all with the same filter size.

    Zeiss Ikon digital with full frame sensor.

    I don't want much do I?
     
  11. Trevor, i work for a camera dealer. I just went back to the sales floor. A buddy of mine
    informed me about some of the changes since I left "sales". Among them was a
    restructuring of the Hassy line-up. The 501 series is now sold based on availability. The
    503 will be the only V series camera.

    I will check with my bosses and see if I can post the official list from Hassy. It was real sad
    for an old timer like me to read. Add to that much of the Contax line is now gone. In MF it
    appears that Mamiya is the clear winner at this point. With Hassy hanging their hat on the
    H and X series. With Leica being the bearer for the 35mm RF market at this point (Cosina/
    Bessa not withstanding)
     
  12. Gary, you have to realize how some of the companies work. Hassy may have notified their
    dealers that the 501CM has been discontinued, but some dealers may have inventory that
    they need to move. So as long as both have inventory, you will see it offered on the Hassy
    website.

    This is in some ways better than the way Bronica/Tamron announced and handled the exit
    from the MF SLR market.

    In the end not much different from retailers offering the M6TTL bodies as new at this time.
     
  13. if thats the case, and we can assume with the lifespan of a modern DSLR
    being about 18 months, that the canon d20 is out of production.
     
  14. that would be a reasonable asumption
     
  15. My take is that 35mm film photography will take the position of MF and LF photography in
    history. Meaning that the gear will become more expensive over the next 5 years as digital
    gains more of the market. And there will be us diehards that will not let go till the last roll
    of Tri-X film is taken from our cold, dead hand.
     
  16. "I speculate that the Leica reps will be working harder than ever at dissuading everyone from buying an R-D1".

    The ludicrous price will do all the dissuading necessary, I think.

    John
     
  17. rj

    rj

    Leica might show the digital back for the r series and announce that they are for sale. I hope that Pentax announces a digital camera for the 645 series of lenses(a digital solution to their 645 line). I hope to see larger digital chips integrated into new slr's and in turn the epson rd-1 will be updated with a larger chip (and of course become cheaper). Even though I don't shoot digital, I still like to see technological advances in the lines because that means that the cameras will continue to get better and less expensive. I would love to see a medium format rangefinder line come out with an f2 lens (I know I am pissing in the wind with that one).

    I would really like to see Leica come out and say that they are going to be producing lenses for other camera makers.
     
  18. "I would love to see a medium format rangefinder line come out with an f2 lens..."

    Pardon my profound ignorance, but why hasn't anyone produced fast MF lenses? Does it have to do with size, cost... or some other technical reason?
     
  19. "What will PMA hold for Leica?"

    I believe it's already been "leaked" that the only new product from Leica will be the 75/2 Summicron. Leica said previously the DMR would not be ready until at least April.
     
  20. What will PMA hold for Leica?​

    The Lefthanded Lesbian Ornithologist Memorial MP fondler model.
    In suede.
     
  21. >Dennis Couvillion , feb 13, 2005; 04:31 p.m.

    >Pardon my profound ignorance, but why hasn't anyone produced fast MF lenses? Does it
    have to do with size, cost... or some other technical reason?

    Size. And cost. I'd love a faster lens for a Mamiya 7, but it would have to be a big sucker.
    Look at the lenses for the Hassy Xpan, slooow.

    I wonder if Minolta is going to announce a replacement for the 5400 scanner... that I think
    I'll wait and see. Might mean a price drop on the 5400 if true...
     
  22. "Pardon my profound ignorance, but why hasn't anyone produced fast MF lenses?"<p><img src = http://www.davidde.com/articles/Mamiya8019.jpg><p>80/1.9
     
  23. rj

    rj

    I was really referring to a fast lens for a medium format rangefinder camera like the bronica or mamiya. I personally think these systems won't be updated at all, but it doesn't cause concern for me because the bronica serves me fine.
     
  24. Trevor Hare:
    "Scaled down basic range of fast primes for APS sensored DSLRs (especially Nikon) so we have the true equivalent of a 50mm f/1.4 AF (33mm f/1.4 AF) and 24mm f/2 (16mm f/2) and 85mm f/1.4 (56mm f/1.4) all with the same filter size."

    It's already beginning:
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0502/05021404sigma30dc.asp

    Yes, I know it's only a Sigma, but the fact that they've done it, means that there is probably a market for these, which means it's likely to be cashed in on by one of the real makers. Nikon that is. :)
     
  25. Ross, I'm not joking. Until Epson announced the R-D1, Leica was adamant that there
    would NEVER be a digital M. It was simply impossible to do.

    The week Epson announced the R-D1 Leica had changed their tune. They were 'working
    on it' for a 'possible 2006 release'. They admitted by this move that they feared the R-D1.
    Otherwise, why have vaporware? They have even published photoshopped images of what
    the Digital M 'may' look like in their magazine. It's probably as far as they have gotten on
    the project.

    Leica has recently admitted that they're hemorrhaging cash and have delayed their Digital
    Modul R. There isn't a single full resolution sample image from the Digital Modul R yet.
    They have still to make a digital camera since the scanning M mount monstrosity they had
    years back (remember, Panasonic makes all of Leica's digital cameras).
     
  26. PMA will most likely be quite uninteresting. The 75/2 and some vapourware digital products from Leica.

    Cosina will perhaps show a pre-production of the 18/4 and little else as they are most likely quite busy with the ZeissIkon.

    Konica - nothing as usual. But I hope (dream) that they are finally working on a digital Hexar, now that the DSLR is on the market. Perhaps at Photokina? Why not a 1.6 crop factor body, 21-28-35-50-90 frame lines and anti-shake built in. When I am dreaming, why not a 50/1.2 or 50/1.4 and an M mount variant of the 35/2 UC-Hexanon?
     
  27. Peter - As of now it is only the Bronica MF SLRs. One can hope that they are holding on to
    the RF645 line for conversion to digital.

    Hakan - Sounds like a great idea. A digital K-M CL-D!
     
  28. Andrew

    Didn't Leica say that it was the then VERY new technology regarding micro lenses on the outer edges of sensors that had enabled them to start proceeding with a digital M ? co-incidence with the RD1? it may be, or not - who really knows?

    Bruno
     
  29. Hakan, Konica is no more. It is Konica Minolta now and they decided not to use the Konica name for cameras. Anything that will come out now in cameras will be a Minolta from 'konica-minolta'
     
  30. and in turn the epson rd-1 will be updated with a larger chip (and of course become cheaper).

    That would be great (I am slightly tempted to buy a second RD-1 anyway) but I am not sure that it will happen for a while. As Epson do not manufacture their own chips they have to rely on what's available in the market (the RD-1 uses the same Sony manufactured chip that appears in the Nikon D100). Things don't seem to have moved on much in terms of the APS-sized chips available to third-party manufacturers. Pentax, KonicaMinolta and Nikon (for their non-pro models) are still using 6MP chips in their current model line-up. Canon are not going to make available their 8MP CMOS chips to third parties and the 12MP CMOS chip Nikon is using for its forthcoming D2X (is it a Sony chip?) is unlikely to be available to the likes of Epson for some time. Ironically, it may be that Leica's own digital M with it's proposed 10MP Kodak chip may end up being the first M compatible digital to market with a 10+MP class sensor. That is if they don't go bust in the meantime.
     
  31. Bring back the Minolta (now Konica-Minolta) Autocord 6 X 6 either as a
    RF or TLR! 'Twas a fairly rugged box camera with a very good
    lens.
     
  32. Bruno, the timing on their complete about face was just a bit too peculiar for me to believe
    that it was mere chance.

    I wish Leica the best, but they are really a very small company that may be in way over
    their head. Contax, which is much larger, was not able to produce more than a handful of
    their DSLR and they were rife with problems.
     
  33. Andrew

    What you say about Leica's timing is correct but your assumptions may not be?
    Leica has always been a small company,but the problems that befell Zeiss/Kyocera/Contax are not necessarily a template for others that follow. The digital arena has matured over the last few years and there is no reason to believe that Leica will fail just because they take their time with introducing new products. They are not in competition with the likes of Nikon and Canon.

    Regards

    Bruno
     
  34. RE: "Leica dissuading people from buying the R-D1" I've already had a Leica rep tell me that a Leica repair tech ("Gunther") told HER the R-D1 lensmount may damage Leica lenses ("Mount made from the wrong metal - may cause excessive wear - we'd hate to have to replace all your Leica lens mounts - PLEASE be careful!"). Just quoting - I take no side on the issue and my R-D1 and Leica lenses are playing nice together. PLEASE don't shoot the messenger!

    RE: "Fast lenses for medium format" Yes, there are a few f/2 or f/1.9 lenses out there - about .0001 percent of the total number of MF lenses made. Hassy's lenses for the "newer" focal-plane cameras also tend to be faster than the leaf-shutter equivalents, so the diameter of available leaf shutters may be a limiting factor, as well as overall size. The Ermanox of about 1925 had an f/2 (later f/1.8?) lens covering approximately the 645 format - but it also had a focal-plane shutter.

    RE: Leica and Photokina. Today's Leica 'does' one lens at a time - the 75 f/2 is the only one for this cycle. Digilux "3" will be 2006. Leica may well show "more, better" oprating versions of the digital R-back.
     
  35. They showed the same old one that they had last year, but with a new menu item.

    They still won't let anyone handle or shoot it, though. Probably because it's just a
    mockup.
     

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