Lens for Linhof Technika III

<p>I'm waiting for a Linhof Technika II which has a Schneider Xenar 150mm lens to arrive and looking for advice on what further, if any, lenses I would need.<br>

I will use the camera mostly for portraits and some scenic field work. If I have a budget of around $600 for one lens what is my best choice. <br>

Will the Xenar meet one of my needs at all?</p>

<p>Hi Colin. I have an early Technika III which is very similar to yours. Mine came with the Xenar 150mm and an Angulon 90. These being the lenses of the day, they do not have multi coating and smaller image circles than later versions. That said, they are still very good.<br>

For portrait I am looking out for something in the 210, 240, 270mm range. For $600 you could get both a wide, such as an Angulon, and something longer for portrait.<br>

The Super Angulons, with larger image circles will cost a lot more, but I have found with mine that very little shift, less than I first imagined, is needed for most work.<br>

Others may come along to blow my advice away and tell you all about their "better" lenses, but I am thinking of what is suitable for the Technika II.<br>

On <strong><a href="../large-format-photography-forum/00ZaJX">this recent thread</a></strong> I posted a couple of images from a 1964 Linhof Publication. When back at my own place in a few weeks, I will be copying it for safe keeping and produce a PDF for sharing.<br>

As for purchasing an additional lens now, there is no need to rush into it. I suggest exploration with the 150 Xenar first.<br>

Good luck, and keep in touch.<br>

Cheers, Kevin</p><div></div>

<p>I too have the technika III (version 5) with 150mm Xenar and that on it's own is a surprisingly useful combination, I use mine a lot for portraits and urban architecture. I also had a 90mm angulon, but after twenty years traded it for a 90mm f/8 super angulon and was amazed how useful it was having the extra shift ability and it being sharp in the corners without having to stop down to f/32 with the angulon. The only problem being the super angulon needs to be taken off to fold the camera. Don't think of wider aperture wide-angles, they work ok with the later technika's but not the III. Y ou should be able to get a 210 or 240mm for very little, that's an undemanding focal length for 4x5.</p>

<p>Thanks Kevin & Mark for you useful advice.<br>

I'm a bit at a loss to know if there is much benefit in buying a newer lens or an older lens. Because I am new at LF the whole thing about shift is foreign but I will learn soon enough once I get into it. But Kevin I guess what you are saying about the Super Angulon is that it requires less shift along the rails/tracks to focus properly, is that correct?<br>

Cheers, Colin</p>

 

<p>No Colin. By less "shift", I am refering to rise and fall of the lens, the 90mm, to maintain image geometry when photographing architecture, or stands of trees in landscape ie keeping vertical lines parallel, as opposed to converging. The 90mm, being a moderate wide on 4x5, I have found on most of the architectural subjects I've used it for, needs only a little of vertical shift to comfortably include the top of the buildings, and fur trees in the Scandinavian woods. As Mark points out, the Super Angulons are superior to the Angulons, and I will eventually buy one, or maybe a Rodenstock Grandagon. But the Angulon came with the camera, so as I was also a beginner, I decided I should stay with it as a good learner lens.<br>

The buildings I have been photographing are only 3 and 4 story buildings from the late 1800s, and I have been able to stand far enough away to comfortably frame the image with the 90mm and about 10mm of vertical shift. Were they taller, and space tighter, I'd certainly be wishing for the larger image circle of the Super Angulan as Mark has experienced, and possibly even a wider lens again, maybe a 65mm. <a href="00XAFI"><strong>Here</strong></a> you see my Technika again, this time with the 90mm Angulon. The bed has been "dropped" to get it out of the way of the image, and the lens board risen to frame the facade of a building.<br>

It will all make more sense to you when it arrives, you can put it on the table in front of you, and start playing with all the adjustments. I'm keen for you to have an instruction book.</p>

<p>150 will be a fine starter lens, certainly for landscape and for half-length portraits. If portraits are important for you, I would get a 210 lens next. Plenty of Schneider Symmar and Symmar-S lenses around in this length. the 210 f6.8 Xenar is also good, not quite as much coverage as a Symmar but still plenty for 4x5 and very lightweight. Another possibility might be a 240 Tele-Arton - many modern 240 lenses come in #3 shutters which I am pretty certain are too big for your Linhof.</p>

<p>Kevin, ok now I'm with it. I've had a look at the links you provided, some nice shots there of your Tecknika, mine is an earlier model I believe, 1950-51.</p>

<p>David, if I wanted to do full length portraits I take it I would move to something shorter in focal length, say 90mm?</p>

<p>Also what is the significance of Copal shutters?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>if I wanted to do full length portraits I take it I would move to something shorter in focal length, say 90mm?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Not necessarily - only if in a confined space. It's best just to move further away from the subject, and use the 150, for two reasons: 1 the 150 will provide better isolation from the back ground (shallower depth of field), making the subject stand out. and 2. Getting too close to portraits with even a moderate wide angle lens, one has to be careful to avoid unnatural distortion. Think of the 150 as being similar to a 50mm lens on a 35mm camera, or an 80mm on medium format. And the 90mm on 4x5 being similar to a 35mm lens on 35mm format<br>

Really Colin, the 150mm Xenar, as David says, is a very good starter lens, and more.<br>

For later, Dave also suggests a 240 Tele Arton. The <strong><a href="http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/tele-arton/">Schneider Tele Arton 5.5 lenses</a></strong> have tighter image circles than most others, but are beautiful portrait lenses. They don't lack sharpness, but spread the light in a more pleasing way, being desirable for subtle shading and skin tones. For general work, they are less popular because of this apparent lower contrast, and restricted 'movements' (margin for shift) .. and getting deeper into technical stuff, being of the tele design, managing lens tilt is tricky. But portrait? .. my first choice, and excellent on the Technika, because they require less extension of the rails. This becomes important with heavier, bulkier lenses such as Tele Artons. The weight is another reason to leave them at home, or carry specifically for a portrait assignment. ;-)</p>

 

<p>If yours is a II it is a pre 1946 model, not a 1950s model.</p>

<p><em>If yours is a II it is a pre 1946 model, not a 1950s model. </em>Good pick up Bob<em>, </em>that's a typo, it is a III.<br>

Well your informative advice has helped plenty, thanks for taking the time.<br>

I have a better idea now where to head. I'll give the 150mm Xenar a try while I'm still a learner, then look around for something you recommend. </p>

 

<p>When it arrives, take a few photos from front, side and back. There are many little variations that will help pinpoint the model and version. (There were a number of Tech III versions ) Needless to say the serial number will help. At least we know more closely what it is now. It probably looks very similar to mine, which I am gathering is 1953/54 ish. Later when considering additional lenses, you will also be needing to get hold of additional, matching lens boards, and matching cams for the range finder, if it has one. But that's another story.</p>

<p>Just a word on the “right” lens for portraits. Portrait painters tend to work quite a long way away from their subjects, and there was a feeling in photography at the beginning that photographers should also use this “flat” perspective – which you get basically by using a lens 3 or more times the standard focal length. I have a book written by a well-known pictorial photographer around 1900 who advocates using a lens of twice standard focal length for everything and is adamant that anything shorter will give distorted perspective. As time went on, it became customary to use a lens of about 1.7 to 2x standard focal length for portraits (85 to 105 mm with 35 mm), which gave a more rounded perspective. From the David Bailey era (1960s) onwards, it became fashionable to use a standard or even slightly wide lens (e.g. 80mm on a Hasselblad) to give more punch to images, even though they were a little distorted.<br /> Translating this to 4x5, a 150 mm lens will be great for classic full-length and half-length portraits – there is nothing to stop you closing in with this lens, depending on the effect you want, but as I said, the classic focal length for a portrait head on 4x5 would be 210 to 240mm.<br /> Aside from that, I fully agree with Kevin’s comments. Note a typo in a previous posting of mine – I wrote 210mm f6.8 Xenar, I meant f6.1.<br />One last tip - the longer the lens you use, the easier it is to avoid getting the edges of a studio background such as a roll of paper in the picture. Some people deliberately include edges in the picture - ultimately it's a matter of taste!<br>

Enjoy your Linhof!</p>

<p>Thanks for the tips you guys, you've been hugely generous. As soon as it arrives I'll post some shots of it. In the mean time I will continue looking through your links to learn more. I'm sure when I get to the point of making my first image, I will have more questions, until then, Merry Xmas.</p>

<p>You're very welcome Colin, and yes - enjoy the Linhof. <br>

That's an interesting discussion David on portrait painters. My most important assignments coming up in the next year are two portrait paintings. They are very different. One is a monumental personality known world wide, and at best will only have an hour or so with me .. if that. Scale, perspective dynamics, together with other aspects are drivers of the visualisation, even before meeting the subject. Then be open to change, the unexpected when we meet. Which lens I reach for will make all the difference.<br>

Christmas cheers to all.<br>

No turkey for me. In Norway now, I'm heading back to Thailand as soon as possible.</p>

<p>I have another question.<br>

I've read that not all lenses will fit the Technika III. If this is the case, what do I look for to be sure I am getting the right one?</p>

 

<p>All lenses will fit if they are not too big! Common shutter sizes today are #0, #1 and #3 - the hole sizes they require are as follows:<br>

http://www.skgrimes.com/lens-mounting/to-lensboard<br>

There is also an intermediate size #2 found with older lenses - this size was not strictly standardized but requires about a 50mm hole. #2 shutters are not common, but you might find a 240 Tele-Arton in one.<br>

I don't have a Linhof lens panel to hand, but #0 and #1 shutters will definitely fit, I am sure #2 will as well, #3 I am almost certain will be too large.</p>

<p>David's answer leaves out a very important detail. All Technika lensboard type cameras, including the III, from all manufacturers have a hole in the front standard that the rear elements of the lens have to fit through. If the rear diameter of the lens is larger then the hole in the front standard the lens will not fit on the camera. In some cases, like the 90mm SA XL Schneider modified the rear of the lens so the rear trim ring can be removed and then the lens will pass through the current hole used on the IV and later. But once this ring is removed from the lens you can't place the rear of the lens on a table as the element can be easily scratched that way.<br>

Some lenses may fit through the hole but the rear barrel is shaped so the edge of the barrel will hit the side of that hole in the body and prevent the lensboard from seating and locking properly. These lenses require a board with the hole in a different location. Linhof calls these board a z board with a z after the catalog number. I am not aware of any for a III. Only for a IV and later.<br>

Modern Linhof Technika 45 cameras, IV and later, all can handle a 3 shutter.</p>

<p>Ok folks, the Technika has arrived. It appears to be in good to v.g. condition. Serial number: 31518. The leather looks so good for a camera 60 years old I would say it has been replaced. There are a few spots where the paint has worn off, the rails have wear marks, the lens looks clean and in excellent condition. The only concern is this, when I pick it up and tilt it something is rolling around inside the bellows I think, any ideas what it could be?<br>

I need some instruction manual on how to use it, that is my next task.<br>

 <br>

 </p>

<p>Ok folks, the Technika has arrived. It appears to be in good to v.g. condition. Serial number: 31518. The leather looks so good for a camera 60 years old I would say it has been replaced. There are a few spots where the paint has worn off, the rails have wear marks, the lens looks clean and in excellent condition. The only concern is this, when I pick it up and tilt it something is rolling around inside the bellows I think, any ideas what it could be?<br>

I need some instruction manual on how to use it, that is my next task.<br>

 <br>

 </p>

<p>Ok folks, the Technika has arrived. It appears to be in good to v.g. condition. Serial number: 31518. The leather looks so good for a camera 60 years old I would say it has been replaced. There are a few spots where the paint has worn off, the rails have wear marks, the lens looks clean and in excellent condition. The only concern is this, when I pick it up and tilt it something is rolling around inside the bellows I think, any ideas what it could be?<br>

I need some instruction manual on how to use it, that is my next task.<br>

 <br>

 </p><div></div>

<p>and again</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

<p>Check out the loose thing inside without delay, otherwise it might damage the back of the lens. If you remove the lens panel (lift the big chrome catch at the top), rack out the bellows a bit and point the camera down, the object should fall out. Do this over the sofa or other soft surface, the loose bit might be fragile and important in some way (like the rear part of the lens!).</p>

<p>You really want to make sure to get whatever is loose out ASAP. If you were to have it break, scratch, chip the GG and/or Fresnel you have to realize that Linhof has not supplied replacement ones for a III for about 30 years! So try not to damage them.</p>

<p><em>rack out the bellows a bit...</em>to rack out the bellows do I just use the silver handle under the lense to gently slide it out?</p>

<p>Phew, it was the rear lens cap :), it must have come loose in the post, no damage done.<br>

How do I get an image on the ground glass to check out if it is ok?</p>