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Leni Riefenstahl, R.I.P.


Alex_Es

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Just got the news that Leni Riefenstahl, a life-long Leica

photographer, has died at age 101.

 

There is no question that Riefenstahl was a brilliant photographer.

Had she not given her genius to Hitler I would be celebrating her

career in this space.

 

Riefenstahl was a genius, whether filming Nazi propaganda like Triumph

of the Will or photographing the shy Nubian people with telephoto

Leica lenses. Genius is not enough, however, for my respect.

 

That's all I have to say about Riefenstahl.

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I must say I haven't spend much time with any of her work, but I do understand that she has created some very powerful imagery in her life time, but for the total wrong reason, i.e. in support of Nazi Germany. I don't know how to feel about an artist like that.

 

But as someone said "If you paint your masterpiece on an outhouse, it's impossible to consider the work without also considering the stench."

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She devoted her life to photography before and after having

made films for the leader of her country at his direct request.

 

We'll never know if she would have done so, had she had the

20/20 historical hindsight of those who condemned her later.

 

May she now finally rest in peace.

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<a href="http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/eng/index.html"><b>First, Leni Riefenstahl website</b></a><p>

 

Next, polemic<br>

The life-long villification has been slapped on her because she was German, shot 2 films for the Nazies and most importantly because while producing them for the mortal enemy she was TALENTED. That could not have been forgiven by the Jewish Hollywood. After the war and 4-year incarceration she was not banned from work - but unofficially she was prevented from shooting another film, and her career in film-making ended.<br>

Compare her fate to the life of Sergei Eisenstein. They both revolutionized film-making with their techniques, creating new language of the cinema. They both created what can be called by some blatant propaganda for murderous regimes - and by others works of high innovation and artistry. S.E. continued to do propaganda until the end of his days (died in the 50s, as far as I remember), and is never, never hurled a label of propagandist for a criminal government.<br>

Simple recognition of this obvious fact will be considered "controversial" in the "free speech" society now - what I said is a taboo.<p>

But just go and see yourself her beautiful Nuba or Olympics shots at her site.

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<p>eisenstein never used concentration camp prisioners in his films, unlike L.R.'s <i>Tiefland</i> which i think signifies a pretty significant difference. also while it's true that eisenstein did support the revolution in russia, he's not associated as closely with stalin (if that's who you're referring to) as he was with lenin. L.R. was indeed talented -- nfl films is basically the weekly <i>olympia</i> -- but she both picked the wrong people to identify herself with (hitler) and remained defiantly unapologetic/forgetful of her experience (nazi funding, nazi support, nazi access, etc.)</p>

<p>but make up your own mind, you can check out a lengthy documentary on the subject called <i><a href = "http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/26/riefenstahl.html" target ="_new">The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl</a></i> and you can make up your own mind. also Bernd Taschen published a great photobook of her work, <i>5 Lives</i> definitely worth checking out.

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... you are completely wrong about Eisenstein, your facts are just.. not facts.

What you said about his association with Lenin versus Stalin is childishly uninformed.<br>

However, S.E. is sometimes portrayed as if he was not willing pioneer of propaganda (that served as justification to physically kill TENS OF MILLIONS), but actually suffered from "communist censorship" - another fallacy. <br>

And another side of it is that you confirm the degree of brainwashing and misinformation that has now established itself as "history" of film

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We tend to like to classify people and events as good or evil. These are polarities not always easy to evaluate. If you're on the losing side, you tend to be considered evil. If you're on the winning side, you tend to be seen as good. We don't know what Ms. Riefenstahl knew or did not know about Hitler, the Nazi regime, and her inner loyalties. She just did her job. After the fact, it is easy to make a judgment. During the event, it is very difficult.

 

Right now I am listening to the Democrat Party debates. Many of the candidates have made very harsh statements about the moral justification of the Iraq war and Mr. Bush's motivations, and competency. How do we evaluate all of this during the event or must we wait until after it is all over to determine whether the actions are evil or good? There are many sincere Americans who say his actions are evil. Others say they are good and in the best interest of world peace. Right now Mr. Dean is saying we should not have gone into the Iraq conflict and that Mr. Bush "mislead" the country. Who's to know.

 

I would rather not judge anyone. God alone can do that. I would rather view Ms. Riefenstahl's artistic contributions on their own merits and not on politics.

 

What do we say of America's use of ex-Nazi rocket scientists to make our space program possible?

 

These are not right or wrong issues.

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What the USA are doing now - blatantly despising all international laws, starting imperial wars to secure carbohydrate sources while covering the actions with lying about "war" on "terror" - is classified by many in the world as very similar to what Hitler did when he moved to the start of what became known WWII.<br>

Now, during the last Oscar ceremony one (only one) director criticised war in Iraq - he was booed, it looked extreme, stupid, he was breaking his own career.<br>

Now , supposing the USA fails (the question will never arise, if it succeeds) - should we then arrest Hollywood and TV directors and actors who shot patriotic films and TV series portraying heroic and (suspiciously more and more) self-righteous Bush? Should we procecute all pop bands who performed patriotic songs?<br>

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Actually, Todd F. said it calmer and better above. For example, she denied knowing that about half of gypsies used as extras in her last film were later killed in a concentration camp. And, come to think about it, how could she know that they WOULD be killed, know about future? - it does not stop people who wish to villify her. Her Nuba photographs were said to be RASIST by the hating scum of Susan Sontag<br>

Go and just look at them yourself (link above), and say, honestly, to what degree that calumny was justified?

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She admitted that she "admired" Hitler at that time and also that she was "ambitious"

and therefore jumped at the opportunity that he gave her. Clearly she made a

Faustian bargain...but then, as you can see in the excellent German documentary on

her life, she tried to excuse herself as having been "non-political." That's trying to

weasel out of the bargain. Had she after come out with the statement that what she

did was wrong, she could have come out better. But if you look at the documentary,

whose name I don't remember, you can see clearly what her personality and morality

was. Being a "genius" is not enough in this case, as Alex states above.

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There were many, many people living in Germany who made the choice of being opposed to the Nazi regime. Many were persecuted for their choice.

 

Determining who's 'good' and who's 'evil' after the fact is for historians; I try to make the best choice every time I can, anywhere.

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There's another thread below about Riefenstahl, started (provocatively) by Ellis Vener. It's worth a look.

 

Mr. Bender, I have to say "Jewish Hollywood" sounds like a slur to me, unless you mean "those people in Hollywood who are Jewish," which I doubt you do, because the gist of your post seems to be that since self-serving and conspiratorial Jews control our media, they "blacklisted" Riefenstahl because she was associated with the Nazis and "whitewashed" Eisenstein because he was Jewish.

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(a) she admired Hitler. Half of theUSA intellectuals in the 30s admired Stalin. Have they been procecuted and banned for life?<br>

When in the late 40s - 50s the Commettee began to work, did not it become viewed as a shameful period of witch-hunting later? Was not Kazan (a director) ostracised for testifying, while Miller proclaimed hero, because he refused?<br>

Isn't right and wrong kind of "relative" in our definitions, then?<p>

(b) she was unrepentant. I do not see too many people in the USA repentant about dropping 2 atomic bombs on a nation that was seeking to admit its defeat, do I? In fact, last I talked about it, it seemed the myth about "saving American lives" was taught in American schools, wasn't it?

<br>Actually, in one of her late interviews, L.R. said "I did not kill anyone, I did not drop the atomic bomb" - why, that is nasty, that needs to be punished, doesn't it?

<p>I grew up in and went to the University in Russia, and saw first-hand how old generation of people who had the bad fortune to be born in a wrong time was branded as "stalinist" and they were made understood that their whole lives were a waste under a totalitarian regime - by a new indignant and ignorant generation of "democratic" rulers.<br>

No, too easy to blame the past.

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Marc,

<P> As someone who has done legitimate research and written on the subject of german propaganda (damn master's program), thank you for your comment. It was exceedingly close to what I intended to post.

<P> Ive been watching the firestorm on the LUG, and am amazed an the ferocity.

<P> I took the opportunity to discuss her for awhile with my students and to get them thinking about the issues of genius, morality, and obligation.

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Christ, can't anyone talk about anything around here without dragging in some stupid "pro" or "anti" Bush argument?

<P>

No matter what you think of Bush and the American govt (and I think he's an idiot), do you honestly think they are on the cusp of setting up death camps to kill an entire race of people? Comparing current America to prewar germany is pretty far fetched. For one thing, the USA isn't suffering hyperinflation or any of the other problems caused by being on the losing end of a large war 20 years previous. People get mad when others don't research their points, but then go ahead and mouth off without researching their own.

<P>

Just leave it at: <I>"but make up your own mind, you can check out a lengthy documentary on the subject called The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl"</I><P>

D.W. Griffith was a master of early fimmaking. But to many "The Birth of a Nation" is a horrible example of racism. There are always going to be arguments like this.

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This is what we know about Leni Riefenstahl. She eagerly courted and allowed herself to be lionized by the Nazi hierarchy because it served her vast ambitions. She could have cared less about what the regime was doing because it enabled her to do what she wanted to do. To the end of her days she was curiously detached and oblivious to the horrors of the Nazi government. Other German artists, like Marlene Dietricht, refused to be courted because they could not ignore what was happening in front of them and to their friends.

 

Michael, your use of the phrase "Jewish Hollywood" tells us all we need to know about you.

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I live in California (USA) and we are now involved in a recall election of our current Governor (Gray Davis). This week both Mr. Davis and the other Democrat contender, Cruz Bustamante, have been accused of racism, due to remarks they made, or due to affliations with organizations that promote racism. Mr Bustamante is a member of a radical latino group called Mecha. It advocates, "All for the Race; nothing for those not of the Race." When questioned 4 times to denounce this goal, he refused. Is he a Hitler? If he takes over the governor's office, which is possible, will those of use who are not Latino/hispanic be in danger? I can't make that judgment!

 

My point is this:

 

Adolph Hitler did extreme demonic actions toward many people: gypsies, Christian opposition, homosexuals, those who were mentally retarded and/or deformed, political opposition, and Jews. This was evil. However, most of the people of Germany at that time were unaware of these terrible actions. They saw Hitler as a leader who brought them out of the humiliation of the Versallies treaty at the end of World War I. Many of his supporters were innocent German patriots who wanted a better Germany.

 

Nothing has changed: we see genocide all over the world today. Take a look at Africa...Liberia, for example. Most of the common people in those countries just want to have a job and food on their table. What can they do to make changes?

 

As far as Ms. Riefenstahl is concerned, she must be seen as a creative photographer, and not a cohort of Adolph Hitler.

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Todd,

 

I mean this with the greatest respect, but you are woefully misinformed about what was going on in Germany in the years leading up to the War. The evidence of Nazi terror and violence was all around the German people as their neighbors disapeared, as businesses were smashed, as places of religion were desecrated. Most Germans had to work very hard not to see. If you said that many Germans were afraid of the Nazis, that might be more accurate. But do not try to contend that it was possible for German citizens not to know that the Nazis were a bunch of murederous thugs.

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Think what you will about the woman, but see "Olympia" first. Almost 70 years old and it still looks fresh. Black and White so gorgeous, you wonder why anyone bothers to shoot color.

 

Michael Bender is right about one thing: It's too easy to judge with the benefit of hindsight. In the future, I wonder how many Americans will feel like apologizing for the mess we're making in the middle east right now?

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